Better Call Saul

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swo17
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Re: Better Call Saul

#101 Post by swo17 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:45 pm

I feel less bad now about spoiling the ending of Breaking Bad for Mr Sausage

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Better Call Saul

#102 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:43 pm

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I had a big stupid smile on my face seeing Hank and Gomez
Really digging this season so far. It's somehow less tragic than I anticipated, though there is a fair amount of dread thinking I know where things will lead to.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#103 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:57 pm

I'm glad they're keeping the pace consistent (so far) despite it feeling rushed in concept with only a few handful of episodes left in this whole thing. The beauty of this show though is that that conception of where/how this all ends is flexible. BB had a lot of concrete promises to accomplish before its deadline, while Saul could culminate with any number of "big" moments
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(I have a feeling it will involve Kim's departure from the narrative of Saul's life, rather than some wild 'action').
I'm actually very excited for what Gilligan and co. identify to be the "finale" for this character's story, at least in the past. I do hope we get some Bill Burr scenes though.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Better Call Saul

#104 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:25 am

Chronologically speaking I think last night's episode is right where the first episode of BB is

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#105 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:31 pm

What makes you think that? I think we’re relatively close but
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Krazy-8 just got his nickname and needs more time to establish himself as a tougher, confident man in charge, as well as more experience as a DEA informant.
I do like the way storylines are coming together though, I just hope they take their time and do a long sixth season if they need it to keep with this authentic pace of character and narrative development.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Better Call Saul

#106 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:52 pm

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Hank and Gomez's surveillance ended up in them taking around 700 grand in cash, the same figure he gives when everybody is watching the news of a bust during Walter's birthday party

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#107 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:58 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:52 pm
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Hank and Gomez's surveillance ended up in them taking around 700 grand in cash, the same figure he gives when everybody is watching the news of a bust during Walter's birthday party
Interesting, seems about right then, though that other guy needs to undergo some insanely accelerated character development if we’re to believe that considering how brief a timeline those first few BB eps occur across.

oh yeah
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Re: Better Call Saul

#108 Post by oh yeah » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:30 pm

Nah, BCS is still only at 2005 at the latest on the timeline, so still at least 3 years away from Breaking Bad.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#109 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:16 am

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I really hope we’re not meant to believe that Mike succumbs to Fring’s persuasion so easily based on.. empathy for revenge? We’ll see how things play out but for now that seems lazy.

Loved the Jimmy/Kim stuff especially how Kim is building towards a ruin that is almost completely self-imposed now. So the question is.. what will be ‘too far’ to push her away?

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Roscoe
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:40 pm
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Re: Better Call Saul

#110 Post by Roscoe » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 pm

I'm still wondering what Howard is up to -- pestering Jimmy with job offers...

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Better Call Saul

#111 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:02 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
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I really hope we’re not meant to believe that Mike succumbs to Fring’s persuasion so easily based on.. empathy for revenge? We’ll see how things play out but for now that seems lazy.

Loved the Jimmy/Kim stuff especially how Kim is building towards a ruin that is almost completely self-imposed now. So the question is.. what will be ‘too far’ to push her away?
I don’t see what’s lazy. Given Mike’s own powerful desires for vengeance when his family is hurt or threatened, it makes perfect sense that he would be moved by Fring’s backstory and feel aligned with his motives (also given how little he himself likes the Salamancas). Much of Mike’s distaste evidently was from feeling he was doing these awful things merely to help one more drug dealer make money. Fring revealing his motives would take away a major source of Mike’s hesitation. It all seems well set up to me.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#112 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:22 pm

If it's a set up that will develop at the kind of authentic pace the rest of the show has given us into characterization, then I agree with you, but I should have emphasized "so easily" as if that moment with limited vague language would be the turning point into a trusting relationship. Good point on how this alone will defy Mike's expectations, but further convincing than a cryptic one-liner before he blindly accepts this would be in step with his skeptical individualistic character. Maybe I need to rewatch the body language at the end, but Mike appeared to be moved to speechlessness by the wild idea that a gangster would seek revenge against a rival gang, which is what I take issue with. We'll see if they slow things down to build that trust, but my point is that if they don't and we drop into the action of their bond with momentum, I think that would be lazy and unearned.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Better Call Saul

#113 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:05 am

“Moved to speechlessness” isn’t how I’d put it for such a naturally untalkative person like Mike. He just heard something unexpected, and the episode ended there. We saw the subject being broached and the seeds laid, but not much more. Are you sure you’re not reading too much into the situation based on already knowing the outcome?

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#114 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:31 am

Of course I'm not sure, which is why both of my last comments were speculative and not definitive in saying I hope this is not indicative of facile thread connections. I continue to say "we'll see" and have only laid out my impression of how the scene was played for mic-drop dramatics which did not land for me. Again, I don't disagree with you on anything if they actually develop this well. We all need a reason why Mike aligns with Fring, and I just hope (not "sure") that it's one with a strongly built foundation, that is all.

I will admit, as I have several times in this thread, that I'm anxious about Gilligan tying up loose ends here, considering my issues with the very end of BB. I probably wouldn't be as hypervigilant in my reading as we come to a close if it weren't for that precedent. So when I use words like "hope" it's really due to a worry of repeating past contrivances, and not in any way taking my perception of an unfinished scene as fact.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Better Call Saul

#115 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:33 pm

I think it's important to note that Gus Fring does not behave like a stereotypical drug lord, so his reference to "revenge" would be out-of-character enough to catch Mike's attention.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Better Call Saul

#116 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:25 am

Mike going through these pangs of conscience bothering him to such uncharacteristic degrees (at least so from what we've seen of him on the show and in BB) has been compelling enough, that Gus saving him from the brink of death and finding themselves where they are at the end of this week's show feels like a natural link between this moment and where we find him when we meet the character later on, as someone who is very loyal and reliable to Gus.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#117 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:44 pm

Mike’s pause after Nacho’s reveal threatened to burst Gus’ elevated position in his mind was promising, we’ll see how that develops.

I loved this episode, with even small details like the lunch date to bring morale to homeostasis demonstrating a keen awareness from Gilligan and co. to the humanity behind the systems in their milieu.
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The commercial-demonstration scene was incredibly intense with Kim’s anger and anxiety imploding as Jimmy betrays her trust going off the rails, his ego floating away as the distance between them becomes a vast desert and he becomes everything she feared and has fought against in herself. In that moment Jimmy resembles her mother from the opening flashback scene, a loved one who lies and continuously breaks promises yet physically shows up to force a confrontation that intrudes on her life and suffocates her with traumatic experience of distrust. Our sympathy is so strongly with her by this point that it’s nearly as tragic as some of the more dire scenes in BB. The shots of Kim sitting, positioned lower and stuck in place, trapped in the darkness cast upon her face, as Jimmy walks around higher and freely dynamic, controlling the lights, was strikingly nauseating.

The final line from Kim could not summarize any deep-rooted core emotional conflict within her any better.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Better Call Saul

#118 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:36 am

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I noticed Kim's mom had a Nebraska license plate, which would put post-BB Saul in the same state, potentially the same city, Kim grew up in. Not sure if Saul got to pick where he ended up, but if he did, I'm sure that's why Nebraska.

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Roscoe
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Re: Better Call Saul

#119 Post by Roscoe » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:15 am

It's been pointed out that a certain bit of dialogue of a police officer telling a caller that the smell coming from under the porch is likely a dead possum is probably a reference to:
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an episode in BREAKING BAD, (Season 3 Episode 10) where Jesse describes a possum taking up residence under his aunt's porch. Is it Jesse's Aunt on the phone?

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Better Call Saul

#120 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:25 am

It's a man on the phone

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Roscoe
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Re: Better Call Saul

#121 Post by Roscoe » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:36 am

It could be
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Jesse, or Jesse's dad.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#122 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:25 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:36 am
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I noticed Kim's mom had a Nebraska license plate, which would put post-BB Saul in the same state, potentially the same city, Kim grew up in. Not sure if Saul got to pick where he ended up, but if he did, I'm sure that's why Nebraska.
SpoilerShow
Knowing Gilligan’s tendency to be meticulous with detail and weave Easter eggs and visual foreshadowing into his shows, I’m thinking it’s not a coincidence. Plus didn’t Jesse get to pick his destination in El Camino? That would be great if the present-day storyline culminated in a confrontation with Kim, though we’ll need more than just one more b&w scene to make that happen considering Jimmy has to “take care of” the cab driver first.

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Roscoe
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Re: Better Call Saul

#123 Post by Roscoe » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:03 am

Roscoe wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:36 am
It could be
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Jesse, or Jesse's dad.
In fact, it very likely is
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Jesse, considering that he lived in his aunt's house during her treatment for cancer, looking after her. We just watched the early episodes of Season Two of BREAKING BAD where this was laid out. So Jesse gets my vote.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Better Call Saul

#124 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:54 am

Roscoe wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 pm
I'm still wondering what Howard is up to -- pestering Jimmy with job offers...
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After the last ep, I think Howard's offers are genuine, and the way I read their function I'm so glad if this is true. Though perhaps from a place of guilt mixed with his own growth, Howard seems to be making an honest offer, which makes it all the more powerful via pathos that Jimmy rejects him. Jimmy has many reasons to be resentful and to reject him out of spite, but his attitude reveals two important things: that he is a self-destructive vessel incapable/unwilling to take a safe route that would involve collaboration due to a deep-seated history of receiving little support when his core beliefs were repeatedly punctured; and that he believes everyone has an angle of skewed selfish motives as a result of this social-emotional isolation. That this latter point is potentially untrue makes the uncovering of a motiveless compassionate and affirming gesture all the more sad in Jimmy's inability to accept it, and marks his brokenness and fatalistic course towards his own inevitable downfall. The consequence of a skeptic being presented with a free lunch is self-harm by way of self-fulfillment of a cynical worldview, but for such a well-drawn character who we have enormous empathy for, the authenticity from Howard makes for this to be an especially hard pill to swallow.

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Roscoe
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Re: Better Call Saul

#125 Post by Roscoe » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:23 pm

Sure, Howard's offer seems to be genuine. I can't, however, blame Jimmy/Saul in the slightest for feeling it is just too goddamn little too goddamn late.

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