A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#151 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:19 pm

And just like that, HD copies of this film have leaked online as of today. Please don't ask where to find them or link to them here, but they're out there.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#152 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:03 pm

Thanks for the tip-off, now I don’t have to buy a flight to Rome

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#153 Post by swo17 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:04 pm

Haha, mfunk went there for nothing

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#154 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:48 pm

Obviously you fellas haven't heard of a little thing called sparkling water

Rupert Pupkin
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#155 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:22 am

that's good news! I thought it was a WEB HD only release. Is this web release wrongly "tagged" as a blu-ray or is a blu-ray release announced in the US (or UK or anywhere in the world - even in France there's some uncertainty (it's apparently planned but only as a DVD (contrary to all past Woody Allen movies) - but releasing a movie in France only in SD DVD even with one of the greatest director of photography is usual (but so far Woody had some chances...); That said I did prefer to buy Wonder Wheel released by Sony in the US than in France).
It's just that I would like to find a good sign of a blu-ray release somewhere in the world. And so far I have seen no release date for the US on blu-ray dot com for instance.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#156 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:10 am

This is one of Allen’s top late-career works, and his best film since at least Magic in the Moonlight. What I wasn’t anticipating is how much of the humor comes from “in-jokes” to Allen’s own filmography, from specific content to nudges on familiar themes (as well as some old Hollywood stylistic nods- simply in camera placement!), let alone his perception of the biz and consumers populating the city he loves. Sometimes multiple gags will overlap, often involving a novel utilization of lighting that saturates some scenes to lurid degrees, complementing the verbal wit with extreme visual cues. From continuing his obsession with simplifying the complexities of the emotional neurotic navigating a social world (so stripped down we get some hilariously on-nose quips), to how he views youth and sees himself in them (and apart from them), to the dramatic monologue delivered near the end aching with wisdom and insight that can only come from courage with age capable of effortlessly shattering romantic myths, whilst constructing them simultaneously; in many ways this film feels like an amalgamation, and perhaps culmination, of 21st century Allen. Woody has never been afraid to flaunt his dual vision that cynical realism and optimistic idealism can be possible together in this life, and doesn’t stop here. Instead, he takes on his own thematic worldview in constructing this piece of art - that even in misery there are countless opportunities for discovery and growth in this life. This is Allen finding another opportunity, several in fact, to discover something new, and I loved every minute.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#157 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:30 am

Though your eloquent writing is obviously the most thrilling part of reading that excellent review, TWBB, it's also selfishly nice to know that I can trust my own taste here. Even if it didn't have the big looming Woody Allen slapped on it, this is a beautiful evolution of his sensibilities for this era, in the way that we'd also be praising an upstart filmmaker, or an established but fresh one like Greta Gerwig for if they'd manged the same feat. I keep thinking about the piano scene in the middle of it, how beautifully it's executed, the camera movements and flourishes and incredible lighting as the song is played unbroken as Gomez returns to the living room. As far as big showy centerpieces, it's very high on my list of favorite things in any Allen picture, which are often (though not always) not quite so ambitious, or so romantic.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#158 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:30 pm

Couldn't agree more, and that scene really separates and blends Allen's own splitting emotional outpourings as we get to slow down and muse on a beautiful moment in real time, with Allen holding on to this dreamy declaration of love between a person and life's intangible offerings through art, resisting impermanence for just a little while without forcing it; and at the same time we are allowed the privilege to watch Gomez sitting in the bedroom meditating on her own position, making that difficult decision we all have to do about whether to step up and participate in life or hide away in the self. Both parts of this scene not only reflect and validate Allen's own conflicting positions but they linger for longer than most of his recent efforts have done, not in a way that draws attention, but long enough to notice how other recent works of his have perhaps shortchanged the impact of this light touch Allen possesses that conveys so much feeling, and that he shares in the perfect balance and dosage here.

Since there's starting to be some discussion, and hopefully will be more soon as more seek the film out, I'll be less coy about some details that caught my attention:
SpoilerShow
The lighting becoming so bright it's angelic in several scenes of surging emotion and excitement, often between two characters as a conversation progresses. The lighting can become so intense that it plays as a kind of joke to Allen's already beautiful cinematography and use of light in other more recent films about love, namely Magic in the Moonlight. This felt like a double gag at times, especially as it first occurs during the conversation referencing "scoop" (with Fanning's younger party aptly naive to the concept) back and forth enough times to create its own gag.

The in-jokes to Allen's own works don't stop here (the most obvious is probably the nod to Midnight in Paris' "walking in the rain" romanticism magnifying a couple's division of values and thus goodness-of-fit), but aside from direct references, something like Gomez calling out Chalamet's ethical anxiety around whether a film-kiss constitutes as cheating humorously bypasses the playful neurotic meanderings of Allen's previous work and addresses them from a new angle that unbinds self-imposed meaning from each instance and calls for a perspective of unapologetically participating in life's unexpected opportunities without reservations that bar this process and are often artificially produced by the self (more on this later). I'm sure there are plenty more that I'm forgetting, and that another viewing (or ten) will reveal, but something tells me that Allen may be consciously and unconsciously alluding to his entire filmography in this film.

As for more generalized film jokes outside his own oeuvre, one that struck me as particularly notable was the specificity of the camera placement directly in front of the car on the hood as Fanning and Law drive, a fun throwback to the way the camera was positioned in driving scenes in old films. I'm aware that many films continue to capture in-car action from this relative vicinity but I can't think of a recent film to re-issue this shot from this exact angle with background traffic resembling that of Golden Age cinema and all. It was a subtly welcome reflexive-retro choice.

Seemingly every adult, or at least Schreiber and Law, directly draw parallels between themselves and the young stars as nostalgic representations of youthfulness as yearned for, or related to, from an older perspective. Law even outright says, "He sounds just like me." Allen has been playing with seeing himself in youth for a while now, but here goes for the most reductive simplified statements with a confidence and courage that reveals his desires and intentions, while also drawing significant disconnect, as mfunk already said, in the young New York gen-z population (the annoying friend and director trying to create an innovative film-noir in modern day had me howling).

The 'relationship test' Allen has faced in other films is taken more seriously here, theatricals toned down to really hone in on respecting the moral relativity of each argument unconditionally, with the focus spreading into new territory to the fair question of weighing life experiences, rather than actions derived from selfish or sexual drives. Fanning's deliberation in her decision-making could be read as purely egotistical in a lesser film (even a lesser Allen film) but each decision is very clearly measured and analyzed from the position of a young person taking advantages of opportunities she'll likely never have again, and considering this mindset against ideologies like loyalty to the banal trivialities in a short-term relationship exploits Chalamet's angle to be equally self-conscious and insincere to himself and the relationship too. It's also noteworthy that neither partner actually has sex or "cheats," a choice that denies Fanning's situation the expected catharsis of an Allen movie, but since the importance is solely placed on the general excitement of experience and taking advantage of opportunities, disregarding than any sexual motivator, there isn't a frustration in this choice; rather catharsis is achieved in its own right by giving her the experience of sneaking out of a famous actor's apartment half-naked and more importantly, for having taken the leap of faith in the first place!
In general, I felt that Allen slowed a lot down here to ruminate on his favorite themes and in turn validated all sides of social and internal conflicts in new, mature ways. Allen actually seems to be embracing Fanning's experience, instead of implementing any kind of moral question, by supporting the life choice to take advantage of the thrills of youthfulness from a stance of an older man who understands life is ephemeral but also that instances resulting from stances like these can be stacked to reduce the ennui or regret between the cracks of ephemerality.

One last impression on the most showstopping 'dramatic' moment in the film:
SpoilerShow
Chalamet's mother's admission works to serve multiple purposes. The disclosure implodes Chalamet's fantasy of his family system's identity, mimicking the experience every young person has when they finally see their parents and adults as equals on the plane of humanity: strengths, flaws, experience, and all. However, in the same breath it also overturns the judgments imposed on certain populations by the hiveminded arrogance of the immature and reveals the complex assumptions to their simplicity by supporting that humanist equality. The drama confronts both the passive fantasy and aggressive judgment to reach the same end, one of compassion that only sees the world in morally relativist terms, and that could only come from a man who is at the end of his life looking back with experienced eyes, thoughts, and memories, to form a loose yet clear philosophy he's found through many years of peeling back the neverending onion layers to find meaning only to realize and embrace that role as akin to Sisyphus.
In a year where so many of our best filmmakers (Tarantino, Almodóvar, Scorsese, Ceylan, etc.) have produced art that take on a percipient lens interconnected to their own life-spanning experiences and the consequential wisdom this affords, it's a privilege to see Allen join the party and offer the same priceless present to his audiences while remaining unique to his own distinct identity and worldview.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#159 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:27 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:30 pm
SpoilerShow
It's also noteworthy that neither partner actually has sex or "cheats," a choice that denies Fanning's situation the expected catharsis of an Allen movie, but since the importance is solely placed on the general excitement of experience and taking advantage of opportunities, disregarding than any sexual motivator, there isn't a frustration in this choice; rather catharsis is achieved in its own right by giving her the experience of sneaking out of a famous actor's apartment half-naked and more importantly, for having taken the leap of faith in the first place!
SpoilerShow
If there's one qualm I have (and to give her full credit for the thought, this is something LQ pointed out as what she considers really the only major flaw in this film, though I see it a little bit differently than she does), it's the way Fanning's character is played in the penultimate scene. I suppose I don't know whether Allen or Fanning is to blame, though I suspect it's the writer and director's job to completely nail this. That said - she doesn't seem to be a part of the decision to sever her relationship with Chalamet, despite the fact that both have clearly discovered in the span of a day that it's time to move on from it, and that they have dissimilar ambitions and predilections that will pull them apart eventually anyway. Instead, it is framed as being Chalamet's wise choice to pull the plug, nearly rolling his eyes and then abandoning her - which, sure, is lovely considering what follows it (and Fanning, as the film's runtime proves, is smarter, more capable of taking care of herself, and more capable of making wise decisions than she ever gives herself credit for), but I wish the parallel plotlines of the film's lead characters followed all the way through that scene, not just right up to it. Surely Fanning would have reached that realization by that point to the same level that Chalamet had, right? But at that moment it becomes Chalamet's decision to make, Chalamet's run to Central Park to get there for the beautiful romantic finale, etc. And Fanning is left with a humorous punchline that you'd hate to see the film lose outright, but there is a better way to execute that pivotal scene (and that's not something I'd say about most of the scenes in this film).

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#160 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:39 pm

That's a great point, and I wholeheartedly agree, with the only possible argument against it (and it's probably a stretch in terms of the information we're given) being that
SpoilerShow
Fanning's character seems more at ease with this casual attitude of flowing through life and taking advantage of opportunities as they come, compared to Chalamet's more neurotic, rigid character who is less comfortable with the idea of trusting his gut and surrendering to this optimistic acceptance of impermanence, constructing way too much energy around, and subscribing to, meaning that's self (and socially/ideologically)-constructed, false, and fear-based. If one goes by this internal logic of each characters' respective strengths and ego-defenses, it would make sense for Fanning to be more passive at the end while Chalamet is more impulsive and reactive as he finally takes a leap of faith in struggling with his inner, underdeveloped confidence in this area and has a kind of spiritual awakening. Fanning has already had this, she is more self-assured and actualized in her approach to life and thus would be fine remaining in a relationship with Chalamet and soaking up memories there (which I should stress does not discount the strength of her feelings for him nor does it suggest that she's "using" him in any way - I'm merely implying that they like each other, and there's no harm in continuing that relationship if there doesn't exist a barrier to another opportunity for her, as there is for him, by staying on course), while Chalamet is still young and immature, and the act of running off is more romantic and exciting to him because it's a novel step in his own process of self-discovery. However, I realize that this still doesn't account for giving the characters equal treatment in the finale, and even a slightly more validating gesture could have righted this imbalance, but that's my take on why at least Chalamet's action would be the louder, passionate one- that he is actually the one of the two who has not yet made headway on mastering Allen's philosophy, making Fanning the more admirable character in many respects - quite the opposite of the normal implication when the female lead is sidetracked at the end in favor of the male's revelation!
I'm going to watch this again tonight to re-evaluate, and at the very least probably come back to the table with a few more coded gags noticed and a stronger appreciation for life. Swimming around in my head today unbridled, I'm gushing with accolades and think it's one of Allen's best films.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#161 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:27 pm

The reason I mentioned Fanning as possibly being responsible for the way the scene comes off:
SpoilerShow
Though this was less startling for me on my second viewing, the character seems a little terrified, the way a puppy would if you just drove off with it on the side of the road. It does seem unfair bordering on cruel to just leave someone you care about with a wad of cash and ask them to find their own way back out of a congested and logistically massive city back to where they live, and coupling that with Fanning seeming blindsided by Chalamet highlights that reality instead of making it completely beside the point.
But again, this is a movie, a great one at that, and it's a minor complaint in a film that operates in a tone that doesn't demand that everything we see be taken completely seriously to begin with. Everything is heightened and key lit and copiously peppered with coincidences and perfect timing - it would be strange to hold it against the film any more harshly than I've done here.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#162 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:55 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:27 pm
The reason I mentioned Fanning as possibly being responsible for the way the scene comes off:
SpoilerShow
Though this was less startling for me on my second viewing, the character seems a little terrified, the way a puppy would if you just drove off with it on the side of the road. It does seem unfair bordering on cruel to just leave someone you care about with a wad of cash and ask them to find their own way back out of a congested and logistically massive city back to where they live, and coupling that with Fanning seeming blindsided by Chalamet highlights that reality instead of making it completely beside the point.
SpoilerShow
Having just rewatched the ending, I think Fanning comes off as more confused than terrified. She participates in a seemingly trivial conversation, asks if the quote was Shakespeare, and he impulsively declares he's dropping out of school and leaves her (not to mention he tells her the "facts" about their incompatibility), which would cause anyone to question this frazzled impromptu response. She quickly recovers (far quicker than he would have - or most people for that matter) and turns to the driver, asking him to hurry because it's raining. This saves the scene, and the character, because she moves on from the confusion and accepts the situation in her own way, facing forward to the next moment. Sure it highlights the reality in her perplexed but fair reaction but before the scene ends she regains composure and embraces Allen's philosophy again, or at least that was my impression.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#163 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:09 pm

You're describing my second experience with the scene well, but not my first. At any rate: I love this movie.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#164 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:16 am

Another observation on Chalamet’s character:
SpoilerShow
I completely blew off the significance of his identity as a gambler established early in the film. At first this seemed out of character considering the gambler’s risk-taking nature and Chalamet’s uptight inflexible persona, but much like his preference to walk in the rain, this could be viewed as evidence of a conflict brewing within him as well as an indicator of his ability to sway towards the less secure but intensely participatory side of life.
As for more in-jokes:
SpoilerShow
“Love and death are two sides of the same coin” as a memorable line from one of Schreiber/Law’s film.

Celebrity being the obvious one in the boozing and womanizing film stars and creative types. The prostitute’s mannered stance of intellect that’s all business counters Sorvino’s Mighty Aphrodite, or appears to until she fails to recognize artistic references Chalamet makes, which is arguably the worst offense to Allen! Perhaps a better example of the alteration of the prostitute’s value is the mother, which destabilizes not only the ill-defined role but challenges our approach in assuming identities based on these subjective roles.

Fanning’s sacrifice of all external obligations to dive into the fantastical opportunities to mingle romantically with her filmic idols, bringing Farrow’s motivations from The Purple Rose of Cairo into a far less spectacular reality for us, but just as exciting for Fanning’s subjective vantage point. Her disrupted “cheating” and more empathetic nature also acts as inverse to Ricci in Anything Else, subverting the moral issue in relationship struggles and aiming at a more mysterious and innocent idea.

The entire vibe seems to be most closely replicating my favorite scene in Allen’s oeuvre, from Stardust Memories, where Allen on his deathbed describes his standout “moment of happiness” as a seemingly banal one staring at his girlfriend (Charlotte Rampling) at home and exchanging smiles across the room while music plays, meditating with the camera on her just long enough to revolt against fleeting serenity and accept the memory ‘as is’ all at once. It’s the first time in a while that Allen has allowed his camera to capture such a balanced and complex mix and reduce it to the simplicity that is all that matters underneath.

Lastly, there are several Allen stand-ins here, with nearly every character embodying not only his nervousness, neuroticism, passion for intellect, or social aversion, but his wiser and mature characteristics as well. Even for typical Allen-types, Law certainly joins Chalamet as 100% Allen, and a case could be made for Schreiber, or even Fanning more than most of his female leads containing a large part of him.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#165 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:41 am

Not so sure about Schreiber - Allen's had his head down working for years, is he still really anywhere near as neurotic about how his films wind up as that character is? I don't see much of him there.
SpoilerShow
That "orange trees" line is fantastic.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#166 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:02 am

My case was less professional and more personal in maintaining self-deflating attitudes despite effusive praise and positive regard (compliments usually causes his past characters played by himself to retreat or at least uncomfortably stir), though I could see him being his own worst critic in his younger years. I try to think of Allen tackling both youth and middle age here from his late-stage perspective. Still, it’s a leap and one I don’t believe enough to defend.

And yes, one of my favorite lines along with pretty much everything Chalamet’s obnoxious friend Troller spews. It’s hard to single out any one gem but
SpoilerShow
between comparing a friend’s girlfriend to Yasser Arafat, putting down another in somehow declaring Grace Kelly ugly, and calling Ashley Wilkes a wimp, Allen skewers this type by reducing pretentiousness to nonsensical randomness and I love him so much for it. One of the funniest scenes I’ve seen in recent memory.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#167 Post by domino harvey » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:16 am

If we're quoting lines/exchanges, this was my favorite (and it would be, wouldn't it?)
SpoilerShow
Gomez: I'm studying design at the Fashion Institute
Chalamet: Oh, that's unique
I didn't like this nearly as much as the two of you, but I did enjoy it and with all the NYC fawning it would have made a fitting final film had things really gone off the rails, though thank God they haven't! Gomez is indeed very charming and I think her backstory with Chalamet is the only real defense against why she'd fall for such a miserable neurotic (though I ran into this problem with Allen in Annie Hall on revisit, too). Speaking of, seriously huge LOLs at Chalamet's "Woody Allen, who's that?" post-#MeToo distancing after now seeing his accurate Allen imitation here (one of, what, at least three in this film, right? Jude Law's was the best, though). The ending didn't bother me at all, just as it didn't seem to bother
SpoilerShow
Fanning. I don't think the film's unfair to her, she is a somewhat superficial character and obviously not invested in Chalamet-- for an alleged journalist, note how she doesn't even seem curious about what Chalamet's big convo entailed. It's fine to be a bit frivolous at 21, and she's so upbeat and plucky that it doesn't matter much for this audience member's investment. It does, however, seem to be a little silly to give her credit for not actually cheating when the lack of consummation with Luna was not her doing...

I did appreciate the irony of Chalamet and Gomez being the studio system Hollywood fans and yet it's the oblivious Fanning who lives the absurd (would-be) romantic fantasy about New York City life right out of any number of studio films. But her rejection of the fantasy (or her rejection by the fantasy) then seems to topple over into the Chalamet and Gomez storyline, as they reenact their version of the Clock, the equilibrium of gooey happy endings safely restored and allowed to flourish.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#168 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:05 pm

SpoilerShow
I think Allen is the one giving Fanning the ‘pass’ on “cheating,” not because she does or doesn’t but because this concept is meaningless outside of subjective neuroses and assignment of value in Allen’s world, and therefore "credit" isn't even in the equation as it indicates judgment in the first place. The sex isn’t important but the experience of opportunities had is, so Fanning gets value out of sleeping with Luna or not, either way. The issue isn’t moral so no one is off the hook because no one was on it to begin with, except in Chamalet’s eyes who perhaps resembles Allen’s younger self when he was more quick to overanalyze meaning in all behavior himself. For the record I don’t necessarily share his views on cheating being unimportant in its specificity, but the idea of subjective value assignment and a big picture view of existentialism, where one can find meaning and participate in life because of the freedom of rigidly defined morals via their objective absence, is rather liberating and interesting, and what I saw at the mature lens Allen is viewing this narrative from. It simultaneously makes fun of and validates that passionate drive to define where one stands on issues as a blessing and a curse, but key to identity development, and I don't think we're meant to shake our heads at Chalamet and praise Fanning, but rather consider that one's perspective is malleable. If I find this behavior to be immoral because of my definition of "cheating," well that's my subjective opinion, which is no less real or meaningful in that personal sense, but that can change due to its biased nature, and likely will as we grow and develop our identities with experience, as long as we are willing to widen our scopes, something Allen has been advocating for in his later years and is on full display here.
And I agree on Law being the best Allen. His scene with Rebecca Hall, which may seem frivolous at first, was even better the second time. It also serves the above point I think in taking that objective philosophical observation on the hypocritical nature of human beings and the weight of emotions spun into solipsistic perspectives and hardened morals when life is a kind of flexible joke to Allen in his old age, and one to be met with a light attitude, or - since he's not looking down on his audience or characters - has the potential to be. This lack of judgment and presentation of hypocrisy could be an uneven contradiction in a lesser filmmaker's hands, but Allen's own ambiguity and mutual validation of even the qualities often thought of as flawed, is one of his greatest strengths as an artist and he somehow finds to take existentialism both very seriously and as whimsically lighthearted as it gets.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#169 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:04 pm

SpoilerShow
The idea of "cheating" being a transgression that cannot be moved past, especially if it's a one-time, contextually rich incident, certainly doesn't apply to people in their very early 20s who have only been dating for a few months. Chalamet doesn't seem to care one iota, and even if he were hopelessly in love, surely he would have had some perspective on it as he was written. The frivolity isn't within Fanning, it's within the context of the relationship between Fanning and Chalamet, including their age and the relatively low stakes of their romantic relationship with one another.

Cannot stress this enough if you're 21 years old and reading this: If you've been dating someone you have mixed chemistry with for a few months and a larger than life romantic opportunity presents itself: cheat and sort the rest out later.

This is one area where there's a serious benefit to this film having been written by someone in their 80s: a lifetime of perspective on how important all this stuff is, and sometimes isn't.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#170 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:27 pm

SpoilerShow
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I do think Chalamet clearly cares, or thinks he cares (I mean, he obsesses at times directly about if she's cheating and worries about it aloud in scenes with Gomez), until we realize that's a product of his own vulnerable ego-stability. Of course once he finds a more authentic connection he runs with it and takes on the same attitude as Fanning (and that Allen) does, and we end with a moment of growth through acceptance of the frivolity of value-assignment to the ideological falsehoods of loyalty to their relationship. It's a beautiful moment because it provides a platform to catapult the lovers towards validation and against inauthentic ideology to become free from constraints to themselves (something Bognanovich and others - *cough, Tarantino this year?* - have used cinema to do what real life can't as easily) giving them the feeling of floating in air, while also taking the action to do so seriously enough to passively advocate for it to occur more in real life in presenting the complicated material as simply as it actually is! After all, this idea isn't new - who hasn't been in love and felt that they were floating away from the meaninglessness of all outside that experience, embracing an opportunity to be truly free?

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#171 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:40 pm

SpoilerShow
What is one of the film's most impressive attributes, in my view, is how it depicts two different characters (with different priorities and different personalities, they're different!!!! different) who are both equally valuable as people, apart during the course of a day, discovering in real time what the world has to offer them individually that might be a better fit for them.

Two young people coming to the realization that they don't owe each other anything just because they've entered into a temporary romantic engagement is not depicted often enough, largely because filmmakers usually have a side to take in the relationship. But Fanning does not have guilt about how her day played out, and Chalamet doesn't have guilt about his. The characters part amicably (though I've expressed my minor tonal concerns about the way Fanning is played in that scene) with warm feelings about each other's value as people apart from one another. Frankly, if this wasn't made by Woody Allen it would be celebrated as one of the more "woke" romantic comedies to come along in a while, which is just icing on what is already quite a sturdy cake.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#172 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:43 pm

Excellent post, mfunk, I couldn't agree more

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#173 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:40 pm

furbicide wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:24 pm
Mintzer's piece is little more than a hit job
Ugh, you can say that again. I went ahead and read his "review" and it's skin-crawling how skewed Mintzer's own perspective is, to the point where he not only refuses to give the film a chance (and in the process seems to advocate for censored art), but offensively takes a sexist position in his tunnel-vision (mis)judgments. Allen isn't allowed to make sexual observations or jokes because of accusations? And how about calling Fanning's character "problematic," only to detail why and subsequently rob her of her agency, ignoring that perhaps it's the males she surrounds herself with that are the immature problems, and that this may be by design? God forbid we should champion her as a capable adult who is mature in her own subtle ways, or respect the viewer as capable of detecting these staples that are the very introspective skills Allen brings to his human portraits! The review thus becomes the "problematic" perspective unintentionally and unaware (welcome to cancel culture), digging himself into a hole and revealing Allen to be the one who is clearly considering these compassionate positions towards his characters and audience, only from outside a dark cave. What a joke.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#174 Post by domino harvey » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:44 pm

I pretty much shut down and x out of anything I'm reading when the word "problematic" pops up. I agree with TWBB that the hot take linked above seems willfully oblivious to Fanning's own enjoyment and playful exploration of her effect on all these men while ostensibly being focused on furthering her "career" as a journalist (along with her evolution from contemplating a Pulitzer to patting herself on the back for her future "My Date With a Hunk" article) and is deeply sexist and conservative in a way that only well-meaning liberals seem to be able to manage these days

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

#175 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:01 pm

Yeah, I knew what I was getting into but having seen the film twice now and personally finding this to be one of Allen's more perceptive and affirming works, my defensive side flared up and took the bait. There's some degree of masochism in reading any hivemindedly 'conservative' liberal texts these days.

Post Reply