1014 Roma (2018)
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- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Brian I just made it into the session on time so missed any previews. As I said, if it wasn’t a true Atmos theatre, it sure fooled me.
- tehthomas
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:45 pm
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Brian, thanks for the tip on the 70mm at the Music Box. That sounds like a such a glorious experience in their grand screening room.
Watching this on on Netflix, I kept saying to myself how wonderful this would look on a big screen. I sort of agree that at times "Roma" is maybe boring and disengaging from a script standpoint -- but then..
This is slow cinema that builds, the running gag about the wide Ford Galaxy, the bookshelves. Aside from the glorious B&W photography, the set designs and locales are even more mesmerizing and where "Roma" does feel most like it's transporting you to another place unlike another film has done in recent memory.
Watching this on on Netflix, I kept saying to myself how wonderful this would look on a big screen. I sort of agree that at times "Roma" is maybe boring and disengaging from a script standpoint -- but then
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you're hit with something to stirring as the riot and the stillborn delivery, just a huge 1-2 gut punch that leaves you stirring, and then to get a TKO with that beach scene
This is slow cinema that builds, the running gag about the wide Ford Galaxy, the bookshelves. Aside from the glorious B&W photography, the set designs and locales are even more mesmerizing and where "Roma" does feel most like it's transporting you to another place unlike another film has done in recent memory.
- Magic Hate Ball
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:15 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Saw this at TIFF last night with the big Dolby Atmos setup, which was very neat and a little bit distracting. It doesn't entirely work when the scale is off, which was funny in some places, like the scene where they're talking while watching TV, and the sound mix made it seem like they were sitting sixty feet away. But the overall effect of immersion into that very specific Mexico City was astounding and it was used really well during the more cacaphonous scenes, which were overwhelming. At the end, the entire audience sat through the entire credits like a kind of group listening activity.
I liked that the film itself was like Three Lives meets Les Miserables, and that it was both a film about small, observational details and a mammoth allegory about the human spirit. It's the first (new) film I've seen in a while that felt properly epic, like I'd read an entire dense novel in one sitting after coming out of it. Aparicio is amazing and deserves all the accolades that are coming towards her. The only bit that really felt like a misstep to me was the guy singing at the fire.
I liked that the film itself was like Three Lives meets Les Miserables, and that it was both a film about small, observational details and a mammoth allegory about the human spirit. It's the first (new) film I've seen in a while that felt properly epic, like I'd read an entire dense novel in one sitting after coming out of it. Aparicio is amazing and deserves all the accolades that are coming towards her. The only bit that really felt like a misstep to me was the guy singing at the fire.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
For the first bit of this movie while I admired it I couldn't see much to get a fuss about. It shows Cuaron having matured greatly as a storyteller since his last Mexican film, but his last two features already prove that. It was only in the last forty minutes that the film showed its bonafides and became the great movie of the year. It is not merely a technical masterpiece, something Cuaron has never had difficulties with, but also one of story and character.
This is an extremely political movie not limited to commenting on the time frame it exists in many scenes and moments are coherent primarily in light of the previous government as reflected against the past. Yesterday explains today with Cleo standing in for so much of Mexico. That actually was the main thing that left me apprehensive at first. The tale of Mexico's indigenous population against its Euro one is as divided and fraught as the black and white one in the US with many additional complexities. To so starkly make the movie centered on that relationship is a real tight rope act especially for someone whose previous movies have been so centered on the Euro portion of that equation. I would still like to see what Mexican critics, real ones not some random Vox or Axios wank, on both sides of the equation say about this element, but I believe the last portion of the film manipulates its commentary in a savvy way never becoming another Driving Miss Daisy nor depriving Cleo the autonomy to be happy.
The representation of Cleo is a complicated one as the film presents her interior life, that is in fact the main drama of the film, while also allowing her to be passive as a member of the family through her servitude. With expressing things explicitly she becomes a figure like Hopkins in Remains of the Day. The job becomes her rock where her life has limitations. Yet the film makes clear that those limitations are just as much an end product of how society views her as much as anything else. That's why I found the final scene so completely emotionally devastating. It's ostensibly a happy moment where the family can forge through and they have made clear how valuable Cleo is. At the same time though what life does she have left?
The film would probably be a miserable fantasy of a rich person's assumption of what their servants do after dark if matters were left as just that. Instead the film has Cleo's mistress follow the same path as her mirroring ups and downs in a way that shows how the other side lives as well as making the family not just figures to dress upon. The film brings that out from the land as well. Mexico becomes the character even more passive than Cleo until it actively strikes against man in two very different scenes. The film as a whole proves a valuable reminder of Mexico's unique history and complicated character.
This is an extremely political movie not limited to commenting on the time frame it exists in many scenes and moments are coherent primarily in light of the previous government as reflected against the past. Yesterday explains today with Cleo standing in for so much of Mexico. That actually was the main thing that left me apprehensive at first. The tale of Mexico's indigenous population against its Euro one is as divided and fraught as the black and white one in the US with many additional complexities. To so starkly make the movie centered on that relationship is a real tight rope act especially for someone whose previous movies have been so centered on the Euro portion of that equation. I would still like to see what Mexican critics, real ones not some random Vox or Axios wank, on both sides of the equation say about this element, but I believe the last portion of the film manipulates its commentary in a savvy way never becoming another Driving Miss Daisy nor depriving Cleo the autonomy to be happy.
The representation of Cleo is a complicated one as the film presents her interior life, that is in fact the main drama of the film, while also allowing her to be passive as a member of the family through her servitude. With expressing things explicitly she becomes a figure like Hopkins in Remains of the Day. The job becomes her rock where her life has limitations. Yet the film makes clear that those limitations are just as much an end product of how society views her as much as anything else. That's why I found the final scene so completely emotionally devastating. It's ostensibly a happy moment where the family can forge through and they have made clear how valuable Cleo is. At the same time though what life does she have left?
The film would probably be a miserable fantasy of a rich person's assumption of what their servants do after dark if matters were left as just that. Instead the film has Cleo's mistress follow the same path as her mirroring ups and downs in a way that shows how the other side lives as well as making the family not just figures to dress upon. The film brings that out from the land as well. Mexico becomes the character even more passive than Cleo until it actively strikes against man in two very different scenes. The film as a whole proves a valuable reminder of Mexico's unique history and complicated character.
- Persona
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:16 pm
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
I really liked this moment though I probably can't explain why. I can see how it would feel out of place--like, oh, here's suddenly a very Fellini moment--but I almost wonder if it came from an actual memory of Cuaron's. Either way it worked for me, in that I felt something watching it and it was one of my favorite static compositions in the film.Magic Hate Ball wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:05 pmThe only bit that really felt like a misstep to me was the guy singing at the fire.
- dda1996a
- Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Actually I wasn't reminded of Fellini, but more of Tarr and German to be honest (finally realized who it reminded me of while writing this reply)
- Persona
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:16 pm
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Yeah, Tarr is probably a closer reference, especially some of the moments in Werckmeister Harmonies.
- furbicide
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Okay, so I just caught this in the cinema. Watching this on TV (at least for the first time) is madness. Fin.furbicide wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:18 amLook, I saw many of the films that made me fall in love with cinema on VHS on a medium-sized tube TV, which may be superior to watching on a phone, but by how much? (I mean, how far away do you sit from your phone in this situation? If you're holding a phone up in front of you vs sitting on the other side of the room from your TV, it's about the same size, right?) But I do hope I can catch this one at the cinema, because if nothing else at least it's guaranteed to be an uninterrupted, immersive experience.
- senseabove
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Tarr and a dash of Altman were definitely the forebears who came to mind: slow, steady, single-shot pans of chaotic scenes, tertiary characters coming and going, moments involving them that are minor but significant while they're left unwoven into the primary through-line of the story.
I quite liked the singer, too; in the moment, it felt like it walked a fine line between art as catharsis and art as ignorance, allowing for both spins, and underscoring the relation between the tragedies we do and don't see:. It's both incongruously sublime and utterly absurd, and it feels like a good example of how Cuaron tries to leave a space for criticisms of the blindspots he has from his privileged position (or so it feels to me at least, admittedly being much, much closer, privilege-wise, to Cuaron than Cleo, and so perhaps eager to vindicate our artfully bleeding hearts). And it was of a piece with a few other potent, capital-S Symbols the movie used, like the broken cup. I'm looking forward to a second viewing next weekend to see if those feel forced or over-bearing the second time around...
I've been looking for Mexican/Latinx reviewers as well, and came across this omnibus of reviews, though the reviews are not too critical, mostly praise: http://remezcla.com/lists/film/latino-f ... so-cuaron/
FWIW, one of those reviews mentions Anna Muylaert's The Second Mother as doing a 'better job of presenting the complex social dynamics' of the maid/employer relationship. It's streaming on Prime, so I'm going to try to check that out over the holidays.
I quite liked the singer, too; in the moment, it felt like it walked a fine line between art as catharsis and art as ignorance, allowing for both spins, and underscoring the relation between the tragedies we do and don't see:
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an elegiac hymn for the burning, (presumably) stolen land, versus the whispered conversations about the land theft
I've been looking for Mexican/Latinx reviewers as well, and came across this omnibus of reviews, though the reviews are not too critical, mostly praise: http://remezcla.com/lists/film/latino-f ... so-cuaron/
FWIW, one of those reviews mentions Anna Muylaert's The Second Mother as doing a 'better job of presenting the complex social dynamics' of the maid/employer relationship. It's streaming on Prime, so I'm going to try to check that out over the holidays.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
That is a good one though I think it is more a case of safe exploration while Cuaron gives a messy effort.
- Magic Hate Ball
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:15 pm
- Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Does anyone know what the singer was singing about?
- lacritfan
- Life is one big kevyip
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- Slaphappy
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
I think this nails the movie. The drifting pace actually worked so well, that the impressively cathartic beach climax felt a little bit rushed. For me Roma is the best movie of 2018 along with The Ballad of Buster Scrubbs. Both produced by Netflix.Persona wrote: ↑Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:56 amSome have criticized the film for being a bit thematically listless or whatever but I think Cuaron was just walking a very fine line and he pulled the balancing act off like only a master could. The film is personal but Cuaron doesn't focus on himself. It's intimate but pulled back in its perspective. The camera tells the story but it's also, simultaneously, telling many other stories. For about an hour and a half the film is just immersing you in this world, with this family, and primarily with their maid Cleo. And then the hits come and they take you aback with how much they hit you, because up until that point you may think you've just been riding along in the car or walking the streets with these characters, not really knowing them. It's a film that shows you that empathy can come not just from dramatic constructs but from simply time spent in a place with people, if that time spent is immersive enough. And in Roma it definitely is. It doesn't need 3D or VR or anything like that. Just immaculate photography and a sick sound mix and characters that feel authentic. Well, and lots of great art direction, since it's a period piece.
- barryconvex
- billy..biff..scooter....tommy
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Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
I think you meant The Baggard of Buster Scrubbs...
- Aunt Peg
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- Slaphappy
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:08 am
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
That increases my mixed feelings about this. Two of the most cinematic movies of 2018 released mainly for streaming.
Something specific on your mind you want to say?
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- Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 11:06 pm
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
It does. I'd definitely recommend it.senseabove wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:58 pmFWIW, one of those reviews mentions Anna Muylaert's The Second Mother as doing a 'better job of presenting the complex social dynamics' of the maid/employer relationship. It's streaming on Prime, so I'm going to try to check that out over the holidays.
- hearthesilence
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- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Cuaron confirmed at the Q+A for the album that the film would be receiving a physical release this year on Blu-ray
- FrauBlucher
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- Location: Greenwich Village
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Confirmed=Excellent
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Maybe I need to watch this again, but it just flatlined for me. I’m so disappointed to say that. I kept waiting for something, really anything to happen, but it just drifted. The riot scene was interesting, the hospital scene was brutal, but otherwise it just drifted. Again, the climatic penultimate scene just didn’t grab me either. I feel like I’ve seen all the aspects of this film done better elsewhere, albeit with less technical virtuosity.
Amazed that this is the film that might finally see a non-English-language film win Best Picture. Feels very circumstantial with it being a picture by Cuarón and Netflix’s first big art film. Critics did love it though.
Amazed that this is the film that might finally see a non-English-language film win Best Picture. Feels very circumstantial with it being a picture by Cuarón and Netflix’s first big art film. Critics did love it though.
- dda1996a
- Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
I'd say this is solid, beautiful looking, but I do share your opinion. No idea what made this film stand out compared to many other Foreign films.TMDaines wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:38 pmMaybe I need to watch this again, but it just flatlined for me. I’m so disappointed to say that. I kept waiting for something, really anything to happen, but it just drifted. The riot scene was interesting, the hospital scene was brutal, but otherwise it just drifted. Again, the climatic penultimate scene just didn’t grab me either. I feel like I’ve seen all the aspects of this film done better elsewhere, albeit with less technical virtuosity.
Amazed that this is the film that might finally see a non-English-language film win Best Picture. Feels very circumstantial with it being a picture by Cuarón and Netflix’s first big art film. Critics did love it though.
- Never Cursed
- Such is life on board the Redoutable
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Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Žižek argues that "Roma is being celebrated for the wrong reasons"
As a side note, the website to which I have just hyperlinked is now my least favorite site ever
As a side note, the website to which I have just hyperlinked is now my least favorite site ever
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
Well at least he seems to have seen the movie this time which is an improvement.
I feel like his basic reading of the class dynamic is basically correct (though I disagree with him on his statement regarding her feelings over her child), but since he must always be wrong about something I don't see any evidence that people have missed this obvious textual point. In fact the larger discussion of the film seems to highlight this point as the audience has made it clear that they are largely uncertain as to if Cuaron sufficiently clarifies this point.
I feel like his basic reading of the class dynamic is basically correct (though I disagree with him on his statement regarding her feelings over her child), but since he must always be wrong about something I don't see any evidence that people have missed this obvious textual point. In fact the larger discussion of the film seems to highlight this point as the audience has made it clear that they are largely uncertain as to if Cuaron sufficiently clarifies this point.
- furbicide
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am
Re: Roma (Alfonso Cuarón, 2018)
It's a good article, but yeah, the idea of Zizek writing a column for The Spectator is somewhere between bewildering and hilarious (like if John Pilger got a spot as a commentator on Fox News). Maybe they're happy to employ a Marxist because they know pretty much everyone on the left hates him now.