Undeniably true.
109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
- Michael Kerpan
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
- whaleallright
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Michael Kerpan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:30 pm
As an aside, Sternberg's vision of "New Orleans" struck me as genuinely weird.
You can replace "New Orleans" with just about anything and I think this would hold!
Blonde Venus has some of the most memorable scenes, moments, and iconic images of their collaboration, but it's perhaps a bit less than the sum of its parts. Along with The Scarlet Empress it's certainly the one that has sustained the most commentary from feminist film scholars, though!
Michael, do you not like Marshall in The Little Foxes? That's a poignant performance if ever I saw one....
- Michael Kerpan
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
I have managed to miss Little Foxes somehow -- despite loving Blitzstein's Regina (a shamefully neglected "modern" opera, perhaps the best American one).
- Michael Kerpan
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Disappointed by Scarlet Empress. I thought this was basically a big dumb Hollywood spectacular, albeit with incredible (in multiple senses) art direction and impressive cinematography. I found it historically beyond stupid and dramatically unimpressive. Dietrich seems to have been mostly wasted in her part here. Its hard for me to reconcile this with Sternberg's other films. Overall, I strongly preferred the first 3 Sternberg-Dietrich Hollywood collaborations. (Nice 1971 interview of Dietrich as an extra on this disc, however).
- mfunk9786
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Thought Morocco was really really dull, though the musical numbers were enjoyable and the shabby set for much of the film was the star of the show. Also, one of the shining early examples of carefree onscreen cuckoldry I've ever seen - Adolphe Menjou is the apple of Dietrich's eye for what, 20 seconds?
- Michael Kerpan
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
It was strange seeing Menjou as a nice guy in Morocco. I enjoyed the performances as well as the sets -- and was hardly bothered by the thin plot (rather have too little than too much, frankly).
- Omensetter
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Morocco is definitely the most static of the suite; he basically quadruples his camera movements thereafter and discards with male leads.
Dishonored is the one I keep returning to, though. I hadn't seen it before this set as it seems the odd one out when people discuss these films (I'm likely wrong, but Michael Kerpan's above comment seems the first mention of the film in this thread). Empress is a staggering masterpiece, but Dishonored is just straight-up fun. For portions of the film, Dietrich feels like she barely wants to be in the movie even as she's commanding it, there's an all-timer cinematic cat (in a medium that skews toward the more on-cue dogs), Dietrich in disguise as a dimwitted peasant maid, and that glorious, glorious ending that absolutely engorged me with glee. This is probably the one I'll show to those who haven't seen a Dietrich/von Sternberg film before.
Dishonored is the one I keep returning to, though. I hadn't seen it before this set as it seems the odd one out when people discuss these films (I'm likely wrong, but Michael Kerpan's above comment seems the first mention of the film in this thread). Empress is a staggering masterpiece, but Dishonored is just straight-up fun. For portions of the film, Dietrich feels like she barely wants to be in the movie even as she's commanding it, there's an all-timer cinematic cat (in a medium that skews toward the more on-cue dogs), Dietrich in disguise as a dimwitted peasant maid, and that glorious, glorious ending that absolutely engorged me with glee. This is probably the one I'll show to those who haven't seen a Dietrich/von Sternberg film before.
- Michael Kerpan
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Dishonored might be my favorite of these (but Docks of New York still remains my favorite Sternberg film).
- domino harvey
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Shanghai Express is far and away my favorite of these, but I like Dishonored. Don't really care much one way or the other for the rest...
- Lost Highway
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Dishonored features
After several orders from the US going lost I don't dare to order this, especially as I'm a bit low on money at the moment.
SpoilerShow
my favorite death scene of all time. Trust Dietrich to make execution sexy.
After several orders from the US going lost I don't dare to order this, especially as I'm a bit low on money at the moment.
- Saturnome
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
I ordered the set on the strength of these two. It feels like there's little talk about Dishonored compared to the other titles, but I liked it a great deal. So I went thinking the rest must be just as great if not better.domino harvey wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:16 pmShanghai Express is far and away my favorite of these, but I like Dishonored. Don't really care much one way or the other for the rest...
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Dishonored was long regarded as the least of the von Sternberg/Dietrich films, possibly because it came out the same year as Garbo's Mata Hari which was a far bigger hit. After The Scarlet Empress it's always been my favorite.
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
I tend to think of these films as A-sides/B-sides: Morocco/Blonde Venus, Shanghai Express/Dishonored, Scarlet Empress/Devil Is a Woman. I'm an Empress/Express man myself, but Morocco has Sternberg's best ending (save maybe Last Command) and Dietrich at her most iconic. I also have a soft spot for Blonde Venus because of it's thematically more complex, even if it's aesthetically the most borijng major Sternberg.
Also, Docks of New York is Sternberg's masterpiece and I do not understand why this not more widely acknowledged outside of me and Michael Kerpan.
Also, Docks of New York is Sternberg's masterpiece and I do not understand why this not more widely acknowledged outside of me and Michael Kerpan.
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
What do people here make of The Devil Is a Woman? To me it's not a keeper - Dietrich here is completely uni-dimensional and the whole thing is more like farce, and not a very funny one, bordering on the tedious at times. All we're left with is Sternberg's visuals.
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
She's only unidimensial in the eyes of the men. The ending is the great depression of that assumption.
- Lowry_Sam
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
It's my favorite. The set designs, dress changes for ever scene & Marlene herself are so over the top, that it's the film that epitomizes high camp for me. I'm surprised they didn't ask for a John Waters commentary on this one.
- whaleallright
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Docks is really something else. I'm reluctant to call it his best, even though I kind of think it is, since it almost seems an insult to suggest he peaked so early!
BTW Sternberg is the early archetype of a path that's become cliché since the 1980s: make an independent sucès d'estime as a gateway to a career in Hollywood. He was also ahead of his time in more or less burning out within a decade, when so many others of his generation forged careers that would last half a century.
BTW Sternberg is the early archetype of a path that's become cliché since the 1980s: make an independent sucès d'estime as a gateway to a career in Hollywood. He was also ahead of his time in more or less burning out within a decade, when so many others of his generation forged careers that would last half a century.
- hearthesilence
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
It's hard for me to name a "best" Sternberg film - none of his masterworks stand out in that way in relation to the others - but Docks of New York is my favorite.
- dustybooks
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
I find The Scarlet Empress totally dazzling, audacious, irresistible. (Ironically I enjoy it and Blonde Venus substantially more than the other Dietrich collaborations.) I haven't seen all of Sternberg's works but either Empress or The Last Command is my favorite so far, though I did find Docks achingly beautiful.
- domino harvey
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Criterion should have included the ridiculous soft core porn representation of Dietrich and Von Sternberg bearding for each other in the unbelievably brazen 70s film adaptation of Hollywood Babylon
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
The Shanghai Gesture is very underrated.
- liam fennell
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
I think Docks of New York is probably the most purely beautiful/lyrical of all the Sternbergs, and David Hare I too absolutely consider Salvation Hunters to be an out and out masterpiece (and at least equal to Regeneration or Blind Husbands as far as extraordinary silent debuts go) though I've only seen it in a degraded internet version; particularly impressive/moving for me are the shots of reflections in rippling water and of course the barge arm, which despite being a relentless and indifferent machine is more expressive than the actors!
The past few years I went through a huge Jorge Luis Borges phase and curiously he was crazy about the silents and disappointed with the Dietrich pictures! So I guess it's not an unheard of opinion, that he peaked early. Borges is also the only person in print I've ever seen mention having actually seen the lost Dragnet, which he rated highly and remembered fondly.
That said, the Dietrich pictures, appearing as they do near the dawn of the sound era, are IT for me personally and as such I'd like to just say I'm super mega thankful we have HD versions of these now finally in addition to Anatahan and Blue Angel. Dreams are made of this stuff. Catching up with Anatahan last year finally thanks to the MOC set was also a marvelous experience. Holy cow!
The past few years I went through a huge Jorge Luis Borges phase and curiously he was crazy about the silents and disappointed with the Dietrich pictures! So I guess it's not an unheard of opinion, that he peaked early. Borges is also the only person in print I've ever seen mention having actually seen the lost Dragnet, which he rated highly and remembered fondly.
That said, the Dietrich pictures, appearing as they do near the dawn of the sound era, are IT for me personally and as such I'd like to just say I'm super mega thankful we have HD versions of these now finally in addition to Anatahan and Blue Angel. Dreams are made of this stuff. Catching up with Anatahan last year finally thanks to the MOC set was also a marvelous experience. Holy cow!
- Michael Kerpan
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
I wonder why Salvation Hunters (plugged by Ozu) remains unavailable (in any acceptable form)?
- The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
Edition Filmmuseum released The Salvation Hunters a couple of years back; I haven't seen it myself, but by all accounts it's more than acceptable, unless DVD-only is a complete dealbreaker for you. (There is an HD version from the same restoration circulating unofficially.)
- Tommaso
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Re: 109, 930-935 Dietrich & von Sternberg in Hollywood
And what's more, they've also added the only surviving five minutes of Sternberg's 1929 "The Case of Lena Smith" (and just seeing those five minutes makes one convinced that this must have been a major Sternberg silent!). Haven't seen the Filmmuseum disc yet either, only the HD TV broadcast, which looks great. But Filmmuseum are one of the few labels you can basically trust blindly - unlike Criterion ( sorry for this, but I'm still under the impression of the major disaster that CC's "Tree of Wooden Clogs" is...)