The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
- Ribs
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
The way it's done like it's absolutely nothing and not really distracting in the film makes me 100% certain that Spielberg has no idea what Mr. Show is
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Most slept-on biographical perf of the year: Bradley Whitford as Michael Gross
- jbeall
- Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 am
- Location: Atlanta-ish
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
I feel like Trump ratcheting up his attacks on the press makes the Nixon tape scenes more pertinent than Spielberg intended. The film seems more interested in the gender dynamic of Katherine Graham's courage. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that, except that, as is typical of Spielberg
SpoilerShow
it's done in a way that's heavy-handed. There's a moment early on when Bradlee expresses admiration for Graham's competence, which makes his wife's later monologue redundant. And of course the scene mentioned earlier in this thread. At any rate, Graham's fear of alienating her upper-crust friends is certainly interesting, and there's an exploration to be made of how the well-connected "pull punches" in order to remain well-connected, but I thought the to-that-point unprecedented hostility and vindictiveness of Nixon and his administration was under-explored. But again, this is me watching the film in August 2018, with the background of Trump whipping his MAGAts into a lather about the press.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Streep is really good in this, though-- I know like Cate Blanchett we often take for granted how consistently gifted her perfs are, but Streep is easily the best thing about the film, and it's probably one of her best roles. Honestly, after reading this thread, I was prepared for saccharine heavy handedness in those courthouse scenes and what is actually on screen is nowhere near some of the claims. Some of you should watch an actual non-Sirk studio era melodrama some time
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Likewise. I feel that though this is pretty middle tier Spielberg outside the one shot it doesn't really feature any of his flaws. Merely his focus was the least interesting to me.
-
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:03 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
This movie was not good. And I love Spielberg. All of the faults of Bridge of Spies with none of the redeeming moments.
Constitutional liberal patriotism is where Spielberg movies (and the Democratic Party) go to die--Amistad and Bridge both crash and burn when they arrive at that particular fetish. Except for Lincoln and even that has that great scene about how Honest Abe is twisting the hell out of the constitution in order to do what he needs to do.
Constitutional liberal patriotism is where Spielberg movies (and the Democratic Party) go to die--Amistad and Bridge both crash and burn when they arrive at that particular fetish. Except for Lincoln and even that has that great scene about how Honest Abe is twisting the hell out of the constitution in order to do what he needs to do.
- MoonlitKnight
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:44 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Indeed, it annoyed me that virtually all of the heroism was placed on Katherine Graham's decision to publish the Pentagon Papers (which should've been a no-brainer) and virtually none on Daniel Ellsberg, who actually blew the whistle and leaked the info on said government corruption the first place (and, who, let's face it, would almost certainly be made into a pariah today à la Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden ).jbeall wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:32 amThe film seems more interested in the gender dynamic of Katherine Graham's courage. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that, except that, as is typical of SpielbergSpoilerShowit's done in a way that's heavy-handed. There's a moment early on when Bradlee expresses admiration for Graham's competence, which makes his wife's later monologue redundant. And of course the scene mentioned earlier in this thread. At any rate, Graham's fear of alienating her upper-crust friends is certainly interesting, and there's an exploration to be made of how the well-connected "pull punches" in order to remain well-connected, but I thought the to-that-point unprecedented hostility and vindictiveness of Nixon and his administration was under-explored.
- colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Well said, MoonlitKnight.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
I was actually extremely surprised by how little screentime is dedicated to Ellsberg.
- Brian C
- I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
The movie isn’t about Ellsberg, though. You might as well criticize SAVING PRIVATE RYAN for not giving enough credit to the Russians fighting on the Eastern front.
- MoonlitKnight
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:44 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Well, that's a false equivalence if I ever heard one. The Russians don't even factor into SPR. But in this film it's gone to fairly great lengths at the beginning to show Ellsberg learning about this info and then making the decision to copy it and take it with him to potentially distribute... and then just sort of disappears until the plot (briefly) needs him once more. And after that moment he's never even mentioned again.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
This movie is about the decision to publish the papers, not the decision to leak them to the paper
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Would the Deep Throat in All the President's Men be an easier comparison for you to swallow? It's pretty clear that the point of the analogy is to show that the film is about her and he's here exclusively because he's the one who activates the plot, but his relationship to the characters and themes never rises above plot.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
I know that, but I still was surprised by how little Ellsberg ends up showing up on screen nevertheless. Especially since after understanding he would be indeed only appearing early in the movie, he actually shows up again later but again for very little screentime. As MK said, there's a whole process shown early in the movie then nothing but oh wait ! oh no, nothing really again.domino harvey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:13 pmThis movie is about the decision to publish the papers, not the decision to leak them to the paper
I don't know. It seemed weird to me to have this heavy introduction and then not much more later. Some kind of balance issue.
- MoonlitKnight
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:44 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Perhaps that's why the film never rises above the level of 'decent,' since it chooses to focus on a less compelling aspect of the whole Pentagon Papers saga (again, publishing this info should've been a no-brainer, IMO). And it's all the more ironic given that the WaPo would be unlikely to take on such a scoop today; they're now pretty much pro-Establishment all the way (which is almost certainly why entities like WikiLeaks now exist). I sometimes wonder how much info that our government files under 'classified' is only actually classified because it involves them doing something unethical -- and they know it, so that's how they can cover it up from the general public. Of course, this may not be the place for such a discussion...
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
I feel like you didn't even watch the movie, because the film spent an awful lot of time explaining why the decision to publish was a difficult one
- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
I haven't seen the film, but the decision to publish and the ensuing court case challenging publication is an enormous chapter in law and journalism - you can't underestimate the stakes in that decision, and to say it was an easy "no-brainer" choice completely misses why it was so historical and so difficult.domino harvey wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:44 amI feel like you didn't even watch the movie, because the film spent an awful lot of time explaining why the decision to publish was a difficult one
- MoonlitKnight
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:44 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Except our government never should've been involved in that shit in the first place. Exposing the corruption of one's government should NOT be considered criminal -- EVER. These people need to stop being all buddy-buddy with each other if it's going to affect how they do their job. The press is generally considered our unofficial fourth branch of government; when they're bought off/compelled to be quiet about what the other branches may be doing, what's their point of existing? I don't know why this is even up for debate. To quote MLK, it's never the wrong time to do the right thing.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
So, the movie is flawed because it accurately relays history you disagree with?
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
This is the same reason I don't watch murder mysteries--no one should be committing murder EVER
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
I... didn't see that one coming. What I felt about Ellsberg's small screentime is how weird it ends up in the movie cut. There's a great deal about him at the beginning, almost leading us to believe he'll come back as an important character (and you'd think he is, in a way, since he brought the documents in the first place), but he doesn't, even in cases where you feel "well, they're just going to trace it back to Ellsberg". Then, much later, he's back, but only for a very brief moment.
It's more an editing/screenwriting thing than anything. And in any case, I wouldn't know enough about the historical background to compare the movie to it, but yeah, his character's treatment felt either light, or misbalanced. I don't know.
It's more an editing/screenwriting thing than anything. And in any case, I wouldn't know enough about the historical background to compare the movie to it, but yeah, his character's treatment felt either light, or misbalanced. I don't know.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
He's there so viewers who don't know the whole story already have a sense of what's going on. I can't imagine telling this story without acknowledging the method with which the info was obtained initially and then again for the paper, but this still isn't his film (and makes no claims otherwise). I have no idea why some members are struggling with this completely innocuous inclusion
- gcgiles1dollarbin
- Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:38 am
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Would have been impossible to expand on Deep Throat's character, motivations, etc. in 1976, for obvious reasons, so maybe not the best comparison. But I like your pun, intended or not.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
You're right on a purely factual level of course, but if at least part of the argument is structural that seems like a good comparison point.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: The Post (Steven Spielberg, 2017)
Let's say it this way : it's a very minor thing, and maybe it's because I usually like Matthew Rhys, but it's just that Ellsberg's inclusion in the movie can feel a bit strange, even if it's clearly not his movie. It's just a small screenwriting articulation that feel at times strange, while nothing truly bothering, but still.domino harvey wrote: ↑Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:20 pmHe's there so viewers who don't know the whole story already have a sense of what's going on. I can't imagine telling this story without acknowledging the method with which the info was obtained initially and then again for the paper, but this still isn't his film (and makes no claims otherwise). I have no idea why some members are struggling with this completely innocuous inclusion