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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:35 pm
Finch wrote:
I'm amazed that anyone would want to know who the space jockey was and who the alien was created by. I like the thought that the alien is simply a force of nature. I hate the idea that a human being or a company or even an android created it.

Mark Kermode's sentiment too.


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:03 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am
I will start with I liked Prometheus (so that you can choose to ignore this post right now if you want).

So I guess I had some expectations. But this is now the worst film I have seen in the last 5 years, taking the mantle from Split. Save one scene, it is utterly dire in pretty much every department. Tonally all over the place at both a macro and micro level, you wonder how no one involved noticed?

I also thought it was visually poor which was surprising (surprising because that is usually the one thing Ridley Scott is good at).

More dishearteningly, the franchise is now at a place where what they are doing is retrospectively hurting the good films. I mean given what is shown in Covenant,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the franchise shouldnt even be called Alien anymore.


3/10

ps: the one good scene comes both too far into the film (with too much drivel before) and too early (with too much drivel to follow).


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:43 pm 

Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 6:25 pm
hearthesilence wrote:
Rosenbaum had his number years ago:

Quote:
Scott has turned out one eye-popping cult movie, Blade Runner, which was substantially altered from his own cut, and several more or less forgettable features: two respectable genre exercises (Alien and Someone to Watch Over Me), a so-so literary adaptation (The Duellists), a fluffy department-store Christmas window display (Legend), and an offensive anti-Japanese thriller (Black Rain). He’s not exactly an auteur — this former director of commercials brings a stylish sense of lighting, framing, and monumentality to a variety of visual subjects, but he needs a good script as badly as a musician needs an instrument. He seems to have lucked out this time. Callie Khouri’s screenplay (her feature debut) and the performances of Davis and Sarandon provide him with both an engine and a body; he provides the snazzy paint job. In other words, without the stellar work of these three women, he’d be lost.

He's done a handful of efficient, paint-by-number thrillers, but only three that really have any weight and that I'd care to revisit: Thelma & Louise, Blade Runner and to a lesser extent Alien. As Rosenbaum indicated, in every case Scott's work was bolstered more by his collaborators than the force of his own vision. Even Alien to me remains a triumph of art direction, and everything that remains interesting about it stems from those physical aspects of the film.

I think to discount "Alien" as nothing but "respectable genre" underestimates that film. The tension and fear that "Alien" provokes go beyond just art direction.

The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:44 pm
AbdullahalNasrallah wrote:
hearthesilence wrote:
The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.
This strikes me as a blatant attempt to sidestep "Prometheus" (the writers clearly perceiving it as a redheaded stepchild :|) but still give it a lip-service acknowledgement to arbitrarily tie up any loose ends.


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm
I also liked Prometheus and I enjoyed it more than Covenant. I didn't think it was that bad but the worst was near the end.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Did they really not expect us to know that was David? That's gotta be the biggest audience insult I've ever seen. Also, I guess this is more of a question, when David appears with a knife slash on cheek, this sorta works if you believe he's Walter but otherwise David slashed his own cheek because we saw him reach for a knife (and not actually anyone in the film). Is that right?


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:53 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:45 pm
MoonlitKnight wrote:
AbdullahalNasrallah wrote:
hearthesilence wrote:
The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.
This strikes me as a blatant attempt to sidestep "Prometheus" (the writers clearly perceiving it as a redheaded stepchild :|) but still give it a lip-service acknowledgement to arbitrarily tie up any loose ends.


There's been talk of Scott's next Alien movie taking place between Prometheus and Covenant. Don't know how concrete that is, but it would be interesting


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:44 pm 

Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:38 pm
phred2321 wrote:
There's been talk of Scott's next Alien movie taking place between Prometheus and Covenant. Don't know how concrete that is, but it would be interesting


He said something like that in a TV interview about a week ago, if I recall correctly. I believe he said the next film would be called "Alien: Awakening" and would take place between Prometheus and Covenant. Not sure why he would make the films out of sequence like that?


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Luke M wrote:
I also liked Prometheus and I enjoyed it more than Covenant. I didn't think it was that bad but the worst was near the end.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Did they really not expect us to know that was David? That's gotta be the biggest audience insult I've ever seen. Also, I guess this is more of a question, when David appears with a knife slash on cheek, this sorta works if you believe he's Walter but otherwise David slashed his own cheek because we saw him reach for a knife (and not actually anyone in the film). Is that right?
[Reveal] Spoiler:
This was really the film's biggest failing, and I think it largely falls on Scott's overly-telegraphed execution rather than the script; that said, what I was really hoping for was that the film was leading us to believe it was David pretending to be Walter, only to reveal after his betrayal that Walter had defeated David but came to embrace his philosophy around the superiority of androids to their human creators. That would have been structurally subversive and tied well into the established themes of the film, and made the prospect of further sequel-prequels more enticing.

Also irritating was the film's sloppy handle on time generally and how its last third in particular seemed to revise the xenomorph gestation period from what had been established in the original to instead whatever was convenient for the pacing of the film. The CGI was less than ideal as well, and just a handful of practical insert shots would have gone a long way to redeem some of the more shoddy purely digital elements.

In all, despite some promising elements and ideas (I was quite taken with the execution and visual composition of the opening sequence in particular), Covenant wasn't a total disaster but too uneven to come close to the peaks of the series thus far.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:06 pm
The twist at the end of this could be seen from light years away.


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