Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

[mfunk9786]

It's certainly worth a try - they'd refund if what you get isn't in the expected quality.

[hearthesilence]

The New Yorker just published an excellent profile on Lonergan that has new details on the struggles behind Margaret (he now disowns the theatrical cut - he was contractually obligated to support it when it was originally released) and how Matt Damon got him to write a script that became Manchester by the Sea.

[mfunk9786]

Thank you for sharing that! They did a good job of skirting around some importantly concealed plot details in Manchester by the Sea, too.

[solaris72]

Canadian with Canadian release; can confirm that my copy is as advertised. Purchased used (brick and mortar) earlier this year, so it could be from a corrected run...

For the record, can confirm that the Canadian copy I received from Amazon is also as advertised, with the 3 hour DC actually on the DVD.

[hearthesilence]

Excellent interview in the Guardian, possibly the most detailed interview he's given to date about Margaret and the struggles in the editing process.

A few very brief excerpts:

Martin Scorsese stepped in when we were at a standstill in the politics of the editing process. The theatrical release represents the cut I had submitted to Fox Searchlight in 2008 or 2009. I was unhappy with it and continued working on a version of my own that I could live with. I suggested bringing Marty in as a respected third party who could work with me to create a final version of the film that everyone could be happy with...Marty’s always been incredibly supportive of me, but he really outdid himself this time. He worked really hard on the cut; he tried and I thought found a way to maintain the integrity of the movie while keeping the running time down. We passed the movie back and forth until we were happy, and in the end we turned in a cut that was about 12 minutes longer than the theatrical release.

I signed off on it, Searchlight signed off on it but unfortunately [producer] Gary Gilbert did not. Without his OK, Searchlight couldn’t release anything over the contracted length, so they released the two-and-a-half-hour version instead...

I did express my unhappiness behind the scenes at great length, in a vain effort to secure the release of a version I liked better. Happily they approved the extended edition, which apart from some technical deficiencies which I hope to correct some day, is very close to the movie I wanted to make in the first place.

[Lost Highway]

I so wished the directors cut would come out on Blu-ray, this is up there in my top three favorite movies released over the last ten year. It's Lonergan's best film.

[Roger Ryan]

I so wished the directors cut would come out on Blu-ray, this is up there in my top three favorite movies released over the last ten year. It's Lonergan's best film.

If those "technical deficiencies" that Lonergan mentions in the Guardian interview refer to how the "director's cut" of the film appears to exist only as a low-resolution digital edit, it will take some time and money to re-cut the negative to conform to the longer, preferred version (allowing it to be suitable for a Blu-ray release). I agree it would be a worthy effort.

[Lost Highway]

I so wished the directors cut would come out on Blu-ray, this is up there in my top three favorite movies released over the last ten year. It's Lonergan's best film.

If those "technical deficiencies" that Lonergan mentions in the Guardian interview refer to how the "director's cut" of the film appears to exist only as a low-resolution digital edit, it will take some time and money to re-cut the negative to conform to the longer, preferred version (allowing it to be suitable for a Blu-ray release). I agree it would be a worthy effort.

Thanks, I never knew that. I always wondered why this cut got released on DVD only. I hope the reputation of the film will continue to grow enough for someone to take this on.

[andyli]

I finally saw the (theatrical version of the )film yesterday night, and agree that it is magnificent. I'll wait until watching the director's cut to decide if it's among the best films of the decade (or the last one?). Now I am gonna need some help in fully understanding the Emily character. Maybe it is because I am not a Jew and do not know any New York Jew friends in my life so please bare with me if there is something obvious I'm missing from a cultural context.

SpoilerShow

The confrontational scene between Emily and Ramon is curious. I don't fully grasp the exact reason/words/attitude of Ramon that offends her, and therefore don't understand why Lisa's Mom decides to break with Ramon right after that. Is she equally offended or just out of support for a friend she barely knows. Also, I feel the scene has made some interesting comments on the supposedly adult conversation/discussion of politics, which could be even more contentious or violent than the student counterpart right before it.

Emily seems to be painted in a very aggressive light. I wonder if it is her personality or it is a thing induced by her friend's recent death. I find in some scenes, especially those in which she interacts with her African American lawyer friend, she is constantly on the edge of losing control and ready to hit whoever she doesn't agree with. She is in some sense an even more intolerant person than Lisa, yet at the same time holds the most moralistic stance in the aftermath of her friend's death. This creates an eerie tension for scenes involving her and actually piques my interest to know more about her back story. Her motive in the whole lawsuit is also unclear. Is it simply friendship between Emily and Monica or are there some lesbian overtones I'm missing? Also, is she seen as a surrogate mother for Lisa in the whole lawsuit business? (Lisa's Mom at one time says "You've become a big part of my daughter's life" or something.)

Thank you in advance if you would like to shed some light on these questions I raised.

[Roger Ryan]

I can't say with any certainty since it's been a few years since I watched either version, but I remember at least some of the 36 additional minutes in the "director's cut" are devoted to fleshing out motives and the interrelationships between the characters - it's one of the reasons I found the long cut superior.

[HinkyDinkyTruesmith]

The long cut also is more experimental with its sound and use of "overhearing" conversations, which I consider very successful.

[Shrew]

I've only seen the long version and several years ago at that, but I remember thinking that Lisa was (non-practicing) Jewish, or at least her father was if not her mother. Or was that just bad extrapolating from the surname Cohen?

And for Emily, I think she's meant to be flinty and abrasive as part of her character, which may be drawing from stereotypes about New Yorkers and Jewish women of a certain age (though I'd say she's fully realized as a person in the same way that Affleck in Manchester by the Sea overcomes any stereotypes about drunken pugilistic Bostonians). Her motive (at least in the long version) seemed to be a need to find someone to blame and punish.

[Lemmy Caution]

I re-watched this recently, so I'll toss out my interpretations/understandings:

Now I am gonna need some help in fully understanding the Emily character.

I grew up in NJ. My impression was that Emily was a sort of tough, no-nonsense NYC ethnic type. There are Jewish elements, but New York really came through to me. She is fairly impatient and can be difficult, and prefers everything on her terms. I thought it was interesting when she meets Abigail, dead Monica's relative from Arizona, and Abigail questions the choice of lawyer. Emily repeats a number of times that the lawyer was recommended by her friend. But she never gives any additional info, that her friend is a lawyer and knows their lawyer professionally. Or that her lawyer friend is the one who gave them the basics regarding wrongful death law and significantly dredged up the MTA personnel records which made it clear that they actually had a case, etc. I found that very stubborn of Emily, (and very frustrating) that she wasn't willing to provide any extra context, but made it into something of a confrontation/contest of wills by just repeating the same thing about her friend recommending the lawyer. As we see with Lisa and with Ramon, Emily is fairly quick to push things to confrontations. She's defensive and always has her guard up. I see that as a sort of NYC mentality (er, I have it too), but it could also be seen as a somewhat Jewish response (to quote Ramon), with Emily sort of in the role of Israel or the Jewish Defense League trying to guard and protect against anti-semitism.

I just thought Monica was a good friend, and Emily is naturally upset about the sudden and senseless death of her friend. She's also necessarily involved as the executor of Monica's estate. I hadn't considered any lesbian subtext. It is NYC, so maybe I guess. We don't see or hear of Emily having any family. And Monica had a daughter who died young but that seems to be in the fairly distant past. Such a relationship could explain Emily being the executrix. We are told Monica didn't have any family she was close to, but at her (roughly) age of 50, I'm not sure many would have a will naming a close friend as the executor. So that could point in the direction you bring up. Or that could simply just be a writer's device to tie Emily further into the story. I'm not sure if it adds much either way. Though it could partly explain Emily being so much on edge.

SpoilerShow

I just thought Emily's involvement in the lawsuit was, as she says, to make someone responsible for her friend's death. Which would provide some kind of closure, and easier to process than it being just a random accident (which somewhat implies it was Monica's fault, at least partly). LIsa's involvement is that she knows that she was largely responsible for the accident and death of Monica. As I recall, Lisa blurts this out emotionally during a conference call in the lawyer's office, but she never tells this to her mother.

I do think Emily somewhat functions as surrogate mother for Lisa. Lisa has an oftentimes tense relationship with her mother, who is mostly too busy to be there for her. If she would let her. Lisa is also missing her father, thinks of going to CA to be with him, and winds up feeling rejected by him. Compensating she turns to her teacher (Matt Damon) and the stoner boy. So Lisa is very much looking for parental figures in all the wrong places. Even the blow-up between Lisa and Emily mirrors those between Lisa and her mother. Lisa tells Emily about her responsibility for Monica's death, but never shares this secret with her own mother.

As for the dinner scene, the way the adults talk about Palestinians and Israelis mirrors the way the high school kids go about it in class. Things quickly get testy and confrontational and emotional. Ramon, being a polite guy talks in general, universal terms about the way superior forces always badly treat the weaker. Which is largely true. But Emily picks up on how that applies to the Middle East, which they had been discussing, and accuses Ramon of meaning "oppressor Jews." Ramon doesn't really deny such an implication but only says that he didn't say those negative words. IIRC, Emily gets set to leave and Ramon says that that is "the Jewish response" -- the implication being that Jews are not reasonable and that he sees Emily not really as an individual but rather as a 'typical' Jew. But the larger issue is his blanket dismissal of a whole race of people. It seems evident that Ramon has a fundamental negative impression of Jews, and it's that underlying anti-semitism that causes short-fuse Emily to blow up. Ramon, all wet, lamely repeats "that's the Jewish response" and there's little chance that Lisa's mom doesn't recognize the ugly truth beneath Ramon's gentlemanly exterior. Ramon now represents essentially an attack on her identity as a Jew, and she can't continue to date even a polite anti-Semite. So it's not out of solidarity with Emily, except in a broader sense.

Hope that helps.

[andyli]

Thanks to all of you. I'll hunt down the DC and watch it as soon as possible. Lemmy, your thoughts are detailed and helpful, I appreciate your time buddy.

[flyonthewall2983]

The DC is on HBOmax, in HD.

[Glowingwabbit]

The DC is on HBOmax, in HD.

Some people have compared it and are now saying that it doesn't look like it's actually HD

[Calvin]

It would be surprising if Fox / Disney had rescanned the film elements themselves, only to put it out with no fanfare on HBO Max; I could see it happening if it was licensed by a boutique willing to foot the bill, but that ship probably sailed with the Disney buyout of Fox

[tenia]

I wouldn't be surprised by a streaming platform not caring about the master they're offering.