West Side Story (Steven Spielberg, 2021)

[Dr Amicus]

Looking at a couple of other reviews, such as Variety, I'm inferring from them that there is not a huge amount of Spanish in the film (nothing in particular, just the phrasing seems to imply it).

Also, Rita Moreno is getting rave reviews for this - could be an Oscar nomination, at least, which would be interesting (and surely a first).

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

I wonder if this will be true in non-U.S. English-speaking markets. The Spanish-speaking population of Canada is significantly less than in the U.S., and I'm sure that's true for the U.K., Ireland, Australia, etc.

Bradshaw is based in London and other reviews from British outlets mention the unsubtitled Spanish, so I'm guessing it'll go out that way in all English-speaking markets. From what I gather the use of Spanish is more like code-switching, so I doubt there's entire scenes in Spanish or critical information that's only given in Spanish. The 2009 Broadway revival did this, though they reduced the amount of Spanish a few months into the run.

[dustybooks]

All the Spanish dialogue in Spanglish was unsubbed, so as usual, James L. Brooks got there first. (Admittedly, I don't remember if there was that much of it and have little interest in checking...)

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Wayne Wang has done that with Mandarin and Cantonese in a few of his films, though it hasn't always been respected by distributors (New Yorker's video editions of Chan Is Missing subtitled all the non-English dialogue that was left untranslated for the theatrical release).

[hearthesilence]

Yeah, it's not exactly a revolutionary concept - there are tons of films that do this, especially if you venture beyond something as artistically conservative as Hollywood. Hell, I went to see Bamako last night at Lincoln Center and afterwards they discussed Sissako's decision not to subtitle/translate the song towards the end. (The song was actually in a dialect that wouldn't have been understood by many individuals in that scene, though that practical rationale wasn't even Sissako's main reason.)

[pistolwink]

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre has a not-insigificant number of lines in unsubtitled Spanish....

[MichaelB]

It can sometimes be a headache when receiving a textless master determining whether or not a film should be subtitled, because it's not always clear!

For instance, there's a ton of Spanish in The Border, but I'm not aware of it ever having been subtitled, and it's always contextually obvious what's being said - whereas with Eve we decided that we would translate a fair chunk of Italian dialogue in the longest cut, even though the EYE Filmmuseum restoration had played in cinemas without subtitles. In that particular case, we don't know how Joseph Losey would have approached it as the film had been taken out of his hands by that point - but since there's so much of it, and it's not at all clear to a non-Italian speaker what's being said, we thought it was best to play safe. (You can of course switch them off.) The clincher for me was that this dialogue had been dubbed into English in the version that played as Eva, which suggests that audiences were meant to be able to follow it.

[pistolwink]

(too off-topic, sorry)

[Mr Sausage]

I believe all of Toshiro Mifune’s lines in Hell in the Pacific are unsubtitled, tho’ the communication difficulty is rather the point. I imagine a Japanese audience seeing the film would ideally not get any subtitles for Lee Marvin, either.

[domino harvey]

Also, Rita Moreno is getting rave reviews for this - could be an Oscar nomination, at least, which would be interesting (and surely a first).

It’s plausible, though my understanding is that pundits feel the only surefire nomination and possible win for the film will be in the same category for Ariana DeBose, who plays Moreno’s original role. Poor Dunst, this was almost her year!

[therewillbeblus]

Dunst could follow suit in the tradition of receiving a cumulative award for the wrong performance.. not that she's bad in Campion's film by any means, but it's an understated role with minimal investment from loosely motivated emotional strands, and far from her best work

[MichaelB]

I believe all of Toshiro Mifune’s lines in Hell in the Pacific are unsubtitled, tho’ the communication difficulty is rather the point. I imagine a Japanese audience seeing the film would ideally not get any subtitles for Lee Marvin, either.

This is precisely what John Boorman intended, but I don't know how it played in countries where neither language was spoken.

Similarly, Joseph von Sternberg's The Saga of Anatahan was left deliberately untranslated at the director's request.

And while the Edition Filmmuseum DVD of Straub/Huillet's Class Relations does have English subtitles, they're minimal in the extreme, apparently at the personal request of Danièle Huillet. My German hasn't had that hefty a workout since my O-level way back in 1983.

[ballmouse]

All this talk about unsubtitled dialogue and no mention of The Godfather? I will admit when I first watched it I was confused, but obviously in hindsight the exact words being said are less important than the atmosphere and image (which would have been spoiled with subtitles).

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

And while the Edition Filmmuseum DVD of Straub/Huillet's Class Relations does have English subtitles, they're minimal in the extreme, apparently at the personal request of Danièle Huillet. My German hasn't had that hefty a workout since my O-level way back in 1983.

Huillet translated or co-translated the subtitles for most of their films (and not just into English—for example, she usually did the French subtitles by herself) and followed this practice consistently. This is how Straub explained it:

The untranslated things never interrupt the continuity of the discourse. What is missing is often purely descriptive. But what is translated respects the spoken rhythm as much as possible. People have to be able to see the image without spending their time reading subtitles and those who don't know German have to hear a bit of German for once, without being there to catch any concepts from the reading.

Straub works on the subtitles for the films he's done without Huillet, but I don't know if he still sticks to the same approach.

[beamish14]

Just for the record, Spanish is probably the easiest language to learn

For native Anglophones, Dutch/Afrikaans and Swedish are arguably the easiest for mastering conversational fluency within a relatively short period of time.

Enjoy the Marleen Gorris and Fons Rademakers films!

[Maltic]

Wasn't there an English dubbed version of The Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach?

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

There was, as well as versions in German, French, Italian, and Dutch. Huillet-Straub were very insistent on sync dialogue, but for voiceover they would sometimes record in multiple languages to eliminate or reduce the need for subtitling. Too Early, Too Late has German, French, English, and Italian versions and there are French and German versions of Cézanne (which are actually different edits), as well as a partial German version (with subtitles for the French sync sound) of Lothringen! Oddly the Grasshopper Blu-ray of Chronicle only has the German track, even though all five were restored and the theatrical screening I caught of the restoration used the English audio.

[Murdoch]

I'm probably one of the very few on this forum who hasn't seen the original film (outside of the "America" scene), so I didn't have any frame of reference going into this.

I thought the big numbers of "America" and "Officer Krupke" were excellent and the casting was all very good. Elgort was better than I thought he'd be, even if I didn't buy him in the role of a prison-wisened parolee. I liked the lack of subbing in the film, although I only picked on about a third of what was said.

It felt like Kushner took the reins here more than Spielberg, whose usual optimism was largely absent from the film and looking back it's not something that stuck out to me as a Spielberg film. (that said, the last new release I saw of his was Lincoln, so I haven't exactly been following his career). Overall, it was a decent movie with great performances that thankfully felt shorter than it was, although I'm not eager to sit through its 2.5 hours again.

[colinr0380]

Spielberg appeared to be quite optimistic (arguably too optimistic in adapting the source material) in Ready Player One.

I believe all of Toshiro Mifune’s lines in Hell in the Pacific are unsubtitled, tho’ the communication difficulty is rather the point. I imagine a Japanese audience seeing the film would ideally not get any subtitles for Lee Marvin, either.

This is precisely what John Boorman intended, but I don't know how it played in countries where neither language was spoken.

Similarly the veiled sci-fi remake of Hell In The Pacific, Enemy Mine, is all about crossing the translation divide, at least at first until everyone speaks English to show that they now understand each other.

[BirdLives]

It strikes me as a great candidate for the Criterion treatment.

Interesting update of a "classic" of American movie history which is, nevertheless, not a particularly enjoyable movie (the original 1961 movie, I'm talking about) and thus ripe for updating.

"Identity" issues are all over the place in this movie, and that happens to be a hot topic at the moment; thus, worth exploring in interviews, commentaries, etc. Also: an interesting aspect of the movie is that it, arguably, shows some compassion for the poor whites who are being pushed out of the neighborhood by "redevelopment" also. Kind of interesting to compare to "In the Heights" in this aspect, though I assume that's a topic it would be hard for Criterion to address. Too touchy.

Many interesting people involved in the production. I'd love to see a really smart interviewer talk to Tony Kushner. Here's a great place to start your research, smart interviewer: https://time.com/6126692/tony-kushner-west-side-story/

I would hope Spielberg himself would push for a Criterion release rather than a studio release. (In other words, I assume this is one the studio home video department would prefer to keep for themselves.) A Criterion release is more prestigious (and would be far more interesting, I'll bet). The remake is just absolutely ripe for some Criterion extras showing differences with the 1961 movie.

[soundchaser]

Interesting update of a "classic" of American movie history which is, nevertheless, not a particularly enjoyable movie (the original 1961 movie, I'm talking about) and thus ripe for updating.

Sorry, in what universe? The movie is tremendously enjoyable on just about every conceivable level.

[therewillbeblus]

I mean, I want to see Criterion release more musicals too, but a 2021 remake would not be the priority I'd push for!

[BirdLives]

Interesting update of a "classic" of American movie history which is, nevertheless, not a particularly enjoyable movie (the original 1961 movie, I'm talking about) and thus ripe for updating.

Sorry, in what universe? The movie is tremendously enjoyable on just about every conceivable level.

Well, in the universe occupied by Pauline Kael, here's a little excerpt from her review:

"The irony of this hyped-up, slam-bang production is that those involved apparently don’t really believe that beauty and romance can be expressed in modern rhythms, because whenever their Romeo and Juliet enter the scene, the dialogue becomes painfully old-fashioned and mawkish, the dancing turns to simpering, sickly romantic ballet, and sugary old stars hover in the sky...

"When Romeo-Tony meets his Juliet-Maria, everything becomes gauzy and dreamy and he murmurs, “Have we met before?” When Tony, floating on the clouds of romance, is asked, “What have you been taking tonight?” he answers, “A trip to the moon.” Match that for lyric eloquence! (You’d have to go back to Odets.)"

(You can find that in her collection of short reviews, "5001 Nights at the Movies", pg. 828.)

[BirdLives]

I mean, I want to see Criterion release more musicals too, but a 2021 remake would not be the priority I'd push for!

Can't disagree with your point, but my argument would be that the value of the Criterion "extras" here would be tremendous, while the value of Criterion "extras" on say, "Singin' in the Rain" -- much as I'd like to have that -- would be less valuable, relatively speaking.

[soundchaser]

I think that review betrays not only Kael's misunderstanding of the film's pacing but also of Romeo and Juliet.

(Also, while I haven't seen it, I find it hard to believe that Spielberg's version would be LESS mawkish.)