920 The Virgin Suicides

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#26 Post by dda1996a » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:52 am

I disagree though. They are trying to rebel, and since they function as a group rather as one small individual they have more courage and strength to break the rules.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#27 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:07 pm

dda1996a wrote:I disagree though. They are trying to rebel, and since they function as a group rather as one small individual they have more courage and strength to break the rules.
I agree. The girls in Mustang _know_ "the rules" but do not want to be smothered by them (as they correctly perceive they will be). I found very little to criticize in that film. ;-)

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:25 am

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#28 Post by nolanoe » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:59 am

BEAVER is out and I already am getting emails by friends saying Sofia messed up the color. :-k

User avatar
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 am
Location: The Room

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#29 Post by CSM126 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:05 am

Huh. Had no idea you knew Ms. Coppola personally.

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:25 am

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#30 Post by nolanoe » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:22 pm

CSM126 wrote:Huh. Had no idea you knew Ms. Coppola personally.
Direct quote from my friend. I should add "s.

User avatar
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#31 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:18 pm

How does someone "mess up the color" of their own film?

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#32 Post by domino harvey » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:37 pm

Happens all the time. See the French Connection, which was so bad Fox actually admitted their mistake in listening to Freidkin and redid the Blu

User avatar
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#33 Post by tenia » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:43 pm

French Connection is even funnier than this : Fox released the first BD with Friedkin's endorsement. Roizman said it was a travesty. Then Friedkin said that the result on the BD isn't what he supervised, so Fox must have screwed it up when porting it on the support. Yeah, sure...

Another one I like is The Leopard : Rotunno has supervised both the older restoration used by Criterion and the newer one released by Pathé. The results are quite different (though not as much as French Connection) and they're not even the same AR (since different elements were used for each restoration).

User avatar
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#34 Post by senseabove » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:54 pm

I saw a 35mm print of Virgin Suicides last night and the caps of the Criterion release from DVDbeaver look closer to what I saw, for the most part.
I looked at the caps just beforehand and noted a few particular things that would be easy to remember/compare in the shots of Cecilia in the tree and the dad in the classroom, both of which were much closer to the CC image: the leaves in the tree behind Cecilia were closer to the vibrant green of the BD caps, and the white levels for the window and curtains behind the father were more uniformly washed out yellowish, as opposed to the three distinct shades of the DVD caps. The shot of Dunst laying in the field about split the difference between the two gradings. Overall, the film definitely had a fairly consistent filtered look throughout, so if the CC BD is sometimes a little bit off in one direction of being too colored, then the DVD, with a comparatively more neutral grading as shown in the DVDbeaver side-by-sides is very off in the other.

User avatar
The Narrator Returns
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:35 pm

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#35 Post by The Narrator Returns » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:43 am

I just watched this Blu-Ray, and if I can't really judge the accuracy of the color timing (my only exposure to the movie was through DVD), I will say that the heightened greens in this transfer (which is otherwise a complete stunner) really made this look like Ed Lachman's later work on Carol. Whether that's revisionism on his part or just stylistic consistency that's finally being fully revealed (The Limey, made the same year as this, has much the same look, so I'd guess the latter), I dunno, but I definitely didn't think this was an egregious recoloring by any means.

User avatar
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:41 pm
Location: Framingham, MA

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#36 Post by djproject » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:27 am

Looking at the screen caps again, I think the end goal was to make something like moving Kodachrome pictures where it is still vivid and hasn't faded yet.
Just to be safeShow
After all, this is ultimately a *remembrance* of things past rather than seeing them play out as if it were happening right then and there.

User avatar
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Washington

Re: 920 The Virgin Suicides

#37 Post by cdnchris » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:52 am

Lachman and Coppola mention in the interview they were going for an "older" look for the very reasons you state there.

User avatar
Mr Sausage
Not PETA approved
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Canada

The Virgin Suicides (Sofia Coppola, 1999)

#38 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:58 am


Members have a two week period in which to discuss the film before it's moved to its dedicated thread in The Criterion Collection subforum. Please read the Rules and Procedures.

This thread is not spoiler free. This is a discussion thread; you should expect plot points of the individual films under discussion to be discussed openly. See: spoiler rules.


I encourage members to submit questions, either those designed to elicit discussion and point out interesting things to keep an eye on, or just something you want answered. This will be extremely helpful in getting discussion started. Starting is always the hardest part, all the more so if it's unguided. Questions can be submitted to me via PM.

User avatar
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: The Virgin Suicides (Sofia Coppola, 1999)

#39 Post by knives » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:24 pm

Not the most constructive comment, but I was shocked on rewatching this recently how little Devito is in it. For some weird reason I thought he had Woods' role.

To be a little more constructive, alongside Marie Antoinette this strikes me as the best use of the enigma that Coppola has used as her key mode of characterization. Not even just with the girls, but even the boys with stuff like the flash forwards or the Wonder Years narration forcing questions on them that are outside what the narrative can say.

User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: The Virgin Suicides (Sofia Coppola, 1999)

#40 Post by DarkImbecile » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:16 am

I had never seen this (and picked it up specifically for this Film Club selection, actually) and came away very pleased that it featured both a much stronger sense of humor than I'd anticipated and a much sharper perspective on the men and boys narrating and populating the film than I had been led to believe by complaints that the film prioritizes their gaze on the girls over providing any deep insight into the titular characters themselves. Coppola's script (and her often playful direction) does foreground the boys' perspectives, and in doing so it keeps the girls enigmatic and distant, but also highlights the male characters' immaturity, confusion, dishonesty, and impotence. The scene with the neighborhood men struggling to remove the fence Cecilia died on is as darkly hilarious as Kirsten Dunst's abandonment on the football field is tragic; I don't know that Coppola has juggled tones this extreme since (I haven't seen Somewhere yet), but her ability to do so as successfully as she does in her debut makes the movie.

My other major takeaway from the film is Ed Lachman's cinematography, which drifts between lighting/color schemes for dreamy fantasy images, stark and straightforward depictions of reality, and something in between for key scenes - like the prom night - that seem so soaked in almost mythical remembrance that they teeter on the edge of unreality. I saw a tribute to Lachman's career last year that highlighted his range in working for directors with as disparate sensibilities as Haynes, Herzog, Wenders, Soderbergh, Solondz, and Schrader, and his work on this film stood out in his compilation reel even among those other great works (his best work is still Carol, though).

A note on the time frame: while I quite liked the use of the removal of the neighborhood's blighted elms as a way to mark time in the narrative and further underline the period setting, there's a slightly sloppier element of the production design in a shot of a cemetery with several gravestones with military markings from 1940 and 1941, when the United States didn't enter World War II until December 1941. I feel like this is the kind of detail James Woods' airplane modeling character would have noticed - while still failing to grasp what was happening with his children right under his nose.

Post Reply