True Detective

[domino harvey]

To Andre's point: I'd always assumed True Detective was aiming to be more of a single season anthology like American Horror Story.

Yeah, that seems to be the idea. I read an interview this week with the author where he talked about the in-progress writing for the second season, the only concrete clue about which is that it features three "strong" characters. He didn't seem too confident that HBO would like it though and suggested they might pass on producing it.

[Andre Jurieu]

But I'm still feeling like many of you guys are not really listening to the parts of those interviews or the aspects of the series itself that are all about happily delivering the genre goods. I think it's a mistake to imagine that just because Pizzolatto may have all these intellectual interests and theoretical concerns that he'll be somehow leveraging that into a sort of conceptually pure act of audience alienation. The trick really, which I think the show's been pretty great at so far, is to find exactly the right balance between seeming not to do all the things we expect to see in a story like this and still doing many of those selfsame things in ways we're not anticipating. A good model for something like that is the end of Fincher's Zodiac, which, though ultimately unresolved, still allows its protagonist a measure of closure.

I can't speak for the others, but I know I was listening to those interviews and recognizing the aspects of the series that are about happily delivering the genre goods ... and I still stand by the fact that I believe Pizzolatto will find a way to not completely resolve this narrative in any conventional way. That's mostly due to the fact that so much of the energy of Pizzolatto's writing has been dedicated towards the notion of repetition, and also because the genre works best when the conclusion isn't entirely satisfactory to the characters and audience. In fact, I had Fincher's Zodiac in mind when I was writing my comments, precisely because we never have anything perfectly resolved or confirmed at the conclusion of the film (which also has many intellectual interests and theoretical concerns, and is a film that many viewers found to be alienating), and I think True Detective functions in a similar manner. I'm also reading Sausage and domino's comments, and I can't really say that they don't share the same viewpoint. Nothing in their statements really indicates that they believe there will be no resolution to the overall narrative in favor of a conclusion that focuses on conceptual acts. If anything, I believe their comments also reiterate that the narrative and genre work best when a conclusion provides some resolution, but somehow also manages to continue the ambiguous moral landscape and anxious mood prevalent within the genre.

To Andre's point: I'd always assumed True Detective was aiming to be more of a single season anthology like American Horror Story.

I believe it's meant to be an anthology with a new cast every season, but I don't believe Pizzolatto has placed any firm rules regarding how each season is constructed. Given his fascination with resurrection and repetition, is there any reason that we couldn't see a physical resolution to this specific crime-story, while the spiritual conflict remains unresolved?

[warren oates]

It's a question of emphasis then. A matter of what degree of resolution and what kind the show will permit itself. Interesting that we can see Zodiac so differently. I suppose I can imagine how the ending of that film might be alienating to an audience member with zero knowledge of the actual case, especially if they were weaned on Law & Order and CSI. To me it seems pretty mild in terms of its refusal of closure and fairly satisfying narratively, as the protagonist gets to face down the man he's certain is the killer, even if he can't prove it.

The sense I keep getting from some of the fans around here is that True Detective either is or ought to be going much further out there, say, for example, into Dürrenmatt or Auster territory.

[Mr Sausage]

I'm with Andre and had Zodiac in mind when I wrote what I did earlier (tho' while they each share a concern with narrative, they take much different paths to it--Zodiac looks at the impossibility of deriving significance from a narrative overloaded with avenues of meaning, True Detective seems to be examining archetypes). And I would be happy with a normal resolution that cleared everything up.

[FerdinandGriffon]

The sense I keep getting from some of the fans around here is that True Detective either is or ought to be going much further out there, say, for example, into Dürrenmatt or Auster territory.

Gosh, I hope it doesn't go anywhere near Austerland.
The easiest comparison to make, in terms of the supernatural/detective content, would, of course, be to Twin Peaks, but one of the things I like about True Detective is that, though the older show is definitely in its DNA, it doesn't even try to ape the peculiarity or inexplicability of the menace in Lynch's world. This is a trap that many lesser shows have fallen into, most recently the thoroughly ridiculous Campion miniseries Top of the Lake, which assumed the supernatural overtones as titillating window dressing, only to drop them entirely by its unambiguously didactic finale. If anything, I hope True Detective remains in the realm of Poe's Dupin stories, which tease the reader with the supernatural, only to deliver "rational" conclusions that are so absurd and out-of-nowhere that the terror instilled in the reader earlier remains undissolved.

[mfunk9786]

To Andre's point: I'd always assumed True Detective was aiming to be more of a single season anthology like American Horror Story.

Yeah, that seems to be the idea. I read an interview this week with the author where he talked about the in-progress writing for the second season, the only concrete clue about which is that it features three "strong" characters. He didn't seem too confident that HBO would like it though and suggested they might pass on producing it.

How modest! After this season, it should be easy to produce whatever they come up with, with an all-star cast and strong director to boot

[Andre Jurieu]

Well, I think HBO has a two-year contract with Pizzolatto, so even if they balk at his next idea for True Detective, the two parties could just come up with something else. Of course, I would also be surprised if HBO doesn't provide him with some creative leeway for whatever concept he comes up with for next season considering the acclaim, audience, and fascination that this first season has been able to generate. Having said that, if the last few episodes stumble (which I doubt), it's a whole new ball-game.

[mfunk9786]

I'm more intrigued by what director they might be able to pull. We've sort of reached this peak of television being seen as on close to equal footing with movies, and I would not be surprised if an A-list director were to become interested in making a season of this show.

[ianungstad]

Most A-List directors are only willing to commit to a pilot and executive producing. Getting an acclaimed director like Cary Fukunaga to direct every episode is highly unusual.

[DarkImbecile]

Getting an acclaimed director like Cary to direct every episode is highly unusual.

As interested as I am in next season's cast, I'm far more interested to see A) if they can land a single talented and established director for the whole season again and B) who that person would be.

I think though that this is quietly one of the most central (and maybe the most central) factors in the success of the series thus far, even beyond Pizzolatto's writing and the star power of the leads. In addition to the compositional sophistication and the way his atmospheric style beautifully matches up with the tone of the writing, Fukunaga's presence throughout each episode prevents the tonal and stylistic shifts that can be distracting in even the best series and can lead to a roller coaster sensation from the heights of one episode to the depths of the next. Going from David Fincher - to name another recent dabbler in TV - to Not David Fincher can be jarring no matter the writing/acting talent.


To start the tossing out of some fantasy candidates, given what we know about Pizzolatto's style:
Andrew Dominik
Nicolas Winding Refn
And a certain genre chameleon who recently left the movies behind who may have some free time on his hands and has alliterative initials.

[Mr Sausage]

Most A-List directors are only willing to commit to a pilot and executive producing. Getting an acclaimed director like Cary to direct every episode is highly unusual.

That's for traditional tv, tho', and this is more or less a miniseries. It's less of a commitment and it has higher artistic rewards.

[mfunk9786]

Oh man, Andrew Dominik would be perfect for this. Or perhaps someone a little more mainstream but with a similar virtuoso streak like Joe Wright. And ianungstad, I guarantee that the director chosen for Season 2 will be more well known and/or acclaimed than Fukunaga.

[ianungstad]

If they can get a director to commit to all episodes; I think it will be a comparable director (another rising up and comer) like David Michod; JC Chandor; etc. He's been around for awhile but I would like to see James Foley get his due. He's directed 9 out of the 26 episodes of House of Cards and gets little credit considering he's directed almost 40% of that show.

[swo17]

That's for traditional tv, tho', and this is more or less a miniseries. It's less of a commitment and it has higher artistic rewards.

Speaking of which, um, feel free to vote for this in the Dynamic Top Ten Films thread?

[domino harvey]

Or that Dynamic TV Shows thread everyone wanted and then no one ever used/updated

[mfunk9786]

That's for traditional tv, tho', and this is more or less a miniseries. It's less of a commitment and it has higher artistic rewards.

Speaking of which, um, feel free to vote for this in the Dynamic Top Ten Films thread?

Really? I think that's opening sort of a can of worms - do people consider one season of American Horror Story a movie too? Eh, I have it in the TV thread and I stand by it

[flyonthewall2983]

Rian Johnson would be a perfect guy for this. He has a cinematic sensibility, but has done exceptional work in television as well.

[swo17]

That's for traditional tv, tho', and this is more or less a miniseries. It's less of a commitment and it has higher artistic rewards.

Speaking of which, um, feel free to vote for this in the Dynamic Top Ten Films thread?

Really? I think that's opening sort of a can of worms - do people consider one season of American Horror Story a movie too? Eh, I have it in the TV thread and I stand by it

I haven't watched any of this yet, but an 8-episode series envisioned that way from the start with every episode directed by the same person sounds to me like a miniseries which we would typically call eligible as a film for lists project purposes anyway. I guess what I'm saying is that I won't go ballistic if people include it on their film lists.

[domino harvey]

SWO TO TV FANS: DROP DEAD
"Tell my vision: this Detective's false," sez immodest moderator

[mfunk9786]

This very discussion about who to cast in Season 2 has turned into a pretty terrific Twitter meme

[Andre Jurieu]

Some of this is likely due to the past three episodes being so incredibly strong, but I was slightly disappointed by this last episode. Obviously, some exposition was required for the show to move its narrative along, and I was actually impressed with all the scenes involving Rust conducting interviews - especially with the murderous mother and with Tuttle (enjoyed his color choice for his tie) - but this was by far the most predictable episode of the series thus far.

[feihong]

I didn't predict the way

SpoilerShow

Maggie and Marty just shut the contemporary detectives down during this episode. It seemed as if the series had been building to some breakdown where Hart gives up Cohle to the contemporary detectives, but instead Hart walks out on them. I was yet more surprised that Maggie didn't give anything away.

Also, I suppose I was a little surprised that Maggie's admiration for Russ seemed so genuine. Is it because she has seen a restricted view of Cohle? Or does she perceive something real that the other characters don't recognize? The arc of her relationship with Cohle has moved in a very interesting direction throughout the series.

[Roger Ryan]

SpoilerShow

It was easy to predict that the cause of the 2002 "break-up" between Hart and Cohle would be an affair (however brief) between Cohle and Maggie, but the way the "affair" was handled was surprising. Also, given the weary resignation of the two lead characters during the deposition, I didn't expect that the series' final two episodes would resolve (?) the mystery in present day with the two former partners reuniting. In a way, the show is very much like ZODIAC in that the effect of the passing of time plays such an important role.

[Andre Jurieu]

Actually, now that I'm thinking about the episode a little more, I think the one thing I was surprised by was that

SpoilerShow

Tuttle is apparently dead, which makes the identity of the Yellow King even more mysterious.

[shaky]

Emily Nussbaum's negative assessment of True Detective:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/t ... n_nussbaum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;