Pier Paolo Pasolini on DVD

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richast2
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The Gospel According to Saint Matthew in color

#76 Post by richast2 » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:52 pm

Beaver review:
There was a flicker of hope for a decent English subbed version here, but the entire package amounts to nothing more than a curiosity. The dual-layered DVD offers a new colorized, progressive (and shorter) version of the film that is dubbed into English. There is also the complete original version (interlaced) in a despairingly weak transfer, black and white all right, but burnt-in subs and it may be the worst image yet. So I was interested to see this 'shorter' version with about 45 minutes cut but overall this is truly a bastardized rendition with a DUB and of course the colorization of a film that should only be seen in black and white. The color does look good - bringing up detail a shade in spots. I'm sure that some will suggest to me in email that it should be destroyed. I don't feel quite that strongly and for $10 it does have some value as a comparative piece of manipulated modern digitization but I think that some things shouldn't be messed with... but regardless the reality is that they are.

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#77 Post by Cinéslob » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:46 pm

Kinsayder wrote:
colinr0380 wrote:I had never realised Clouzot's daughter had allowed The Wages of Fear to be colorized
I've seen that version and liked it a lot (to my surprise). It's about the only colourised film I've seen that looks like it might have been shot that way originally.
I'm still trying (after many years) to overcome the shock of discovering that Red River wasn't shot in colour, as per my childhood memories of the film in television broadcasts. I'd never have guessed, given how good a job was done on it - in fact, I initially thought that the VHS tape I bought of it was defective, until learning otherwise.

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colinr0380
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#78 Post by colinr0380 » Mon May 14, 2007 5:28 am

I just received my copy of volume 2 of the Pasolini set and thought I'd mention here that there are two short films included as extras along with the trailers, perhaps included because the combined running time of the three films is shorter in this volume than the first - they are a welcome addition either way. I'll reproduce the description from the packaging:

Notes For A Film On India (imdb): Pasolini's rare 1968 documentary features interviews on the subject of religion and starvation in India (34 mins, B&W)

The Walls Of Sana'a: Pasolini's 1971 documentary voices disgust at the demolition of old buildings in the name of modernism (13 mins, Colour)

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Tommaso
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#79 Post by Tommaso » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:04 am

colinr0380 wrote:Notes For A Film On India (imdb): Pasolini's rare 1968 documentary features interviews on the subject of religion and starvation in India (34 mins, B&W)
Damn brilliant! A true Pasolini rarity, like "the Walls of Sana'a", which however was already on the Raro "Medea". Now the only film still missing is the wonderful "Appunti per un'Orestiade africana". So then, another box set to order rather sooner than later. My credit card is beginning to seriously complain now....

I've now received my copy of Tartan's Vol.2 box set and can confirm that it is excellent all around. "Hawks and Sparrows" and "Oedipus" look superior to the French edition, though only slightly, and like "Porcile", are pretty much flawless. "Le Mura di Sana'a" looks weaker than on the Raro disc, which has far better colours and is sharper (despite being non-anamorphic), but that's a minor quibble. "Appunti per un film sull'India" is a wonderful extra (looking good though taken from a battered print), I always find it amazing how Paso managed to imbue documentaries intended to bear social criticism with such a degree of sheer poetic beauty without losing any impact. I guess it has to do with his voice, which transports both intellectual clarity and sheer melancholy at the same time.

Now, the only film I hadn't seen before was "Porcile" (as I managed to abstain from the apparently horrible Water Bearer edition). I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Although it's photographed beautifully, it basically replays themes that I found he tackled better in "Teorema" (industrial power and the bourgeois society). I found the political criticism somewhat over-simplified and too didactic (the pigs/Jews theme, or the reiteration near the end "I killed my father, ate human flesh" etc.). I'm aware that the film, although apparently talking about post-WW2 Germany, is probably as much about the Italian situation at the time, and that one could even see it as an early study for "Salo", but if it was intended to create shock amongst viewers, this has now pretty much receded. The cannibalism bit, for instance, is much more nerve-wrecking in Ichikawa's "Fires on the plain" than here. On the other hand, having the industrialist play the infamous Horst-Wessel-Lied on a harp struck me as pretty much a brilliant idea, and much more to the point than the use of 'Carmina Burana' in "Salo". Anyway, not a bad film, but barring "Canterbury Tales", probably the one that convinces me least. Any thoughts, anyone?

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david hare
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#80 Post by david hare » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:42 am

Good Points -- I wil only add I think Porcile (and Canterbury Tales) are pointers to the direction Paso was starting to take formally in Salo. A view in post nihilist Fassbinderian essaies.

In an odd way Bertolucci's Partner antedates these "split" films" and gives them both a literal and a narative reading (plus a glorious mise en scene.)

At this level of reading I always thought Paso's last (but not all) films were final essays in - whatever form people most often found them -a view of total despair - for the future, or human nature (as are I think RWF's.) It's not a kind read.

I've always regretted in some ways that Paso created his most formally beautiful film - Salo - with such grace and beauty. At the end of his life.

But what a gift he left us, with the image of fascism in which we all live these days as two dumb boys dancing a foxtrot.

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Tommaso
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#81 Post by Tommaso » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:42 am

davidhare wrote: At this level of reading I always thought Paso's last (but not all) films were final essays in - whatever form people most often found them -a view of total despair - for the future, or human nature (as are I think RWF's.) It's not a kind read.
I tentatively agree, but one would have to impose a very special interpretation on the Trilogy of Life to maintain that idea. After all, these three films were made to celebrate an archaic utopia of poetry, sexual liberation and a world free of capitalism, and in my view this 'positive' approach is very much in the forefront at least in "Il Decameron" and "Arabian Nights". "Canterbury Tales " seems to be very similar at first glance, but certainly there are a lot of darker aspects, especially near the end (the murder episode, the demon scene). This might be seen as a foreshadowing of how that utopia was to be destroyed in "Salo", but on the other hand Pasolini as Chaucer shows us so much good-naturedness and humour that these episodes are finally not overly heavy in the context of the whole film. Also remember that he appealed to UNESCO with "Le mura di Sana'a" in order to protect that city, and the fact alone that he made the film seems to indicate that there was indeed hope left in him.
davidhare wrote: But what a gift he left us, with the image of fascism in which we all live these days as two dumb boys dancing a foxtrot.
Amazing, yes. But remember that Paso has been criticized for not having understood both fascism and de Sade. "Salo" seems in a way to indicate that fascism is an aesthetisation of the darker, unrecognized bits of the human soul (sex, power etc.). I don't think that he left out the interpretation of a bourgeois/capitalist origin in "Salo", but of course it is much more overtly evident in "Porcile". In this respect, the two films nicely compliment each other, and indeed the very 'symmetrical' compositions of fascist art and architecture are taken up in the camerawork in both films. Still, I find "Salo" infinitely superior, of course.

One more word in this respect to the Tartan box: it's nice that they put a whole book in as an extra, but why "Ragazzi di Vita", a novel from a totally different period that does next to nothing to illuminate the content of the three films? I would have wished they'd reprinted one of his late essay collections instead, the "Lettere Luterane" or the "Scritti corsare" in an English translation (is there one? I only know the German versions of these). These are must-reads for anyone really wanting to understand what Paso was aiming for in his last ten years.

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zedz
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#82 Post by zedz » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:20 pm

Re: Porcile vs Teorema.

I first saw both at about the same time (maybe even as a double feature), and was blown away: such visual and thematic imagination!

Finally revisiting Teorema more than ten years later, I was disappointed. However cryptic it may be, it's also schematic (basically applying f(x) = y to each family member, where f stands for 'fuck' as much as 'function'), and unless you try to concoct some extremely elaborate individual allegory for each encounter (which I think Pasolini effectively resists) it all drills down to what seems to be a pretty simplistic and naive meaning ("sexual liberation would destroy bourgeois society"). Scene for scene, it's still impressive, but it doesn't add up to a satisfying whole for me.

I've only just had a chance to revisit Porcile in the wonderful Tartan set, and was delighted to find it had stood up.

The film is a model of intriguing construction. The ancient half is wordless and determinedly asymmetrical; the modern story is logorrhoeic (any action is reported action) and presented in queasily off-centre symmetrical compositions (or, taking it a bit further, almost matching mirrored shots). The two halves deal with similar themes and motifs (consumption, rebellion, institutionalised murder, familial betrayal), but what I like about the film is how they fail to add up to any clear message. Pasolini seems instead to be provocatively playing with concepts - bouncing them between the stories - without resolving them. Are the modern fascists to be compared with the cannibalistic pagan or the repressive Church in the ancient story? Or both? Is Leaud's rebellion against societal norms really relatable to Clementi's? I find Porcile to be a really effective dialectical film that opens up its areas of concern rather than closing them down. I'm not sure of the exact timing involved, but it seems to me very much a post-68 film, with Pasolini having a far more jaded and pessimistic (and thus more stimulating) perspective on societal rebellion. Plus, it's technically stunning. I don't know of any director who made better use of real locations (Medea is probably the pinnacle of this tendency).

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david hare
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#83 Post by david hare » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:33 pm

The Tartan sets are absolutely wonderful!

I am tempted to agree with you that Teroema seems far less impressive than it did on first release. I did and still do LIKE the apparent schematization, the intersections of a the family members, all emblematic, with a "visitor" who becomes what they want him to be. Perhaps it's the cinema/audience metaphor using Stamp as the object that appeals to me. And the schematization struck me again after watching the far less successful Salo as some sort of nod to certain types of encyclopedic Rousseauian literature.

Porcile striks me as less organically successful in the Godardian "modern" episodes than it does in Clementi's scenes. Perhaps for the good reason I can't take my eyes off Clementi every time he's in front of the camera.

Do you see any connections with the superb Edipo Re Zedz? The backwards and forward time shifts. The mythical and the ordinary. This may be my favorite Paso.

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Tommaso
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#84 Post by Tommaso » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:58 am

Great analysis, zedz. I agree about "Teorema" having been a slight disappointment after re-watching it (in my case, it must have been almost 20 years before I saw it again on the R1 dvd), for precisely the reasons you mention. I only think that the Stamp character stands not just for 'sexual liberation', but also and perhaps more so for the 'divine' in the wider sense of the word, i.e. everything that doesn't fit into the materialist/capitalist/bourgeois world that Paso was criticizing. In connection with his other work of the time, one could add the 'mythic' or 'archaic' as well, though this is less apparent in the film if you consider it on its own.

As to "Porcile", I tended to read the 'pagan' part as allegorical for the working classes, those who have to struggle for life and being literally speechless, while those in power make endless and empty talk. Not having any power, the poor engage in an endless and useless war against themselves (the cannibalism part). But this might be a too narrow way of seeing things. What about the Ninetto Davoli character? He appears in both parts, and in the 'pagan' part he is even doubled. Does this mean he is a 'reflector', an indication that the two parts indeed belong together? For instance, the industrialists do everything to hide their 'animal' parts, otherwise the son's desire for pigs wouldn't have been such a problem for Klotz in the first place. But their interactions are as cannibalistic (metaphorically) as those of the pagans.
davidhare wrote:Do you see any connections with the superb Edipo Re Zedz? The backwards and forward time shifts. The mythical and the ordinary.
This connection is there in all films from the late 60s I would say, starting already with "Uccelacci e uccellini" (a film I find terribly underrated, the episode with the medieval monks being among my favourite things in all Pasolini). But while in "Edipo Re" the mythical part presents us with a world which - despite Oedipus' crime - still functions, "Porcile" shows us a mythical world which is as bleak as the modern one. One could argue that this is much more to the point, and one would then have to discount the whole of the Trilogy of Life as taking back a statement, an insight that he already had, and romanticizing the 'past'. Still I would argue that what happens in the Trilogy is not a look into the past, but into a utopia not located in any temporal relation to the modern world.
zedz wrote: I'm not sure of the exact timing involved, but it seems to me very much a post-68 film, with Pasolini having a far more jaded and pessimistic (and thus more stimulating) perspective on societal rebellion. Plus, it's technically stunning. I don't know of any director who made better use of real locations (Medea is probably the pinnacle of this tendency).
It was made in 1969, directly after "Teorema", and before "Medea". I would also say that "Medea" is his most impressive film, for a lot of reasons (and Maria Callas being not the least of them), but as for location shooting, I would easily add "Arabian nights" as being as impressive.

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zedz
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#85 Post by zedz » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:18 pm

Tommaso wrote: As to "Porcile", I tended to read the 'pagan' part as allegorical for the working classes, those who have to struggle for life and being literally speechless, while those in power make endless and empty talk. Not having any power, the poor engage in an endless and useless war against themselves (the cannibalism part). But this might be a too narrow way of seeing things. What about the Ninetto Davoli character? He appears in both parts, and in the 'pagan' part he is even doubled. Does this mean he is a 'reflector', an indication that the two parts indeed belong together?
All of these readings seem worth pursuing, and I think that's a testament to the richness of the film. The sheer awkwardness of the modern story is so carefully contrived that i find it fascinating.

As for Davoli, he seems to me to serve a similar function in many of Pasolini's films, being present as a messenger or witness (he very clearly serves both functions in Porcile; he announces the advent of Terry in Teorema; even in Hawks & Sparrows, where he has a much larger role, it's primarily as Toto's foil / follower). This seems to me to be a very personal meaning for Pasolini that transcends the specific significances of the individual films, so I'd be wary of reading his role very deeply into Procile - it seems to me more of a meta- thing.

As for comparisons with Edipo Re and the other films, I've yet to watch the Tartan disc, so I'll get back to you (it used to be up there with Porcile and Medea), but Pasolini has remained one of the inexhaustible 1960 / 70s directors for me (probably outdone only by Oshima for the richness of his legacy in such a short time). Even the films I find less successful (Mamma Roma), minor (Comizi d'amore), or even frankly bad (The Canterbury Tales) are fascinating and reward scrutiny. Even the Trilogy of Life, which I think is basically a washout (and maybe even a sellout), includes The Arabian Nights, which is so ingenious and thought-provoking that it makes you want to look closer at the first two films. And the audacity of Salo serves as pretty strong evidence that 'selling out' was the last thing on PPP's mind.

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Tommaso
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#86 Post by Tommaso » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:33 am

You're probably right about Davoli being a sort of witness in all the films he appears in, perhaps representing the childlike or 'innocent' bystander not or little affected by what is going on around him. It's certainly not "Porcile" specific. The question is why Pasolini presented us again and again with that character (coming relief and the personal relationship between Paso and Davoli aside).
zedz wrote: Even the films I find less successful (Mamma Roma), minor (Comizi d'amore), or even frankly bad (The Canterbury Tales) are fascinating and reward scrutiny.
I totally agree. After having first seen almost all his films when I was still a youngster, I had somehow lost track of Pasolini in the 90s due to the absence of any suitable home-video editions and my interests going elsewhere. But it's been an amazing and thought-provoking pleasure to have been able to re-watch them all in the last few years when they became available on good dvds. And they haven't aged a bit for the most part, and their social and ( partly) even ecological issues seem to be more pertinent than ever today. I'm not sure whether one can really call any of his films minor, because they all add up to the specific statement he wanted to make, like a mosaic. That includes even "Canterbury Tales", which I also find bad for the most part. Still I wouldn't want to go without his Chaucer impersonation. And still I wonder whether the roughness and amateurishness (that awful editing non-technique!) of "Canterbury Tales" and partly also "Il Decameron" was carelessness or also part of the artistic statement he wanted to make (i.e suggesting a rough, 'uncivilized' way of filming and living).
zedz wrote: Even the Trilogy of Life, which I think is basically a washout (and maybe even a sellout), includes The Arabian Nights, which is so ingenious and thought-provoking that it makes you want to look closer at the first two films. And the audacity of Salo serves as pretty strong evidence that 'selling out' was the last thing on PPP's mind.
I never thought the Trilogy was a sell-out, it just appears like that to a casual viewer not aware of the rest of his work. The films have been accused both of naiveté or as an unexplicable adaption to commercial 70s soft porn cinema. While both is true to a certain degree, the aspects of utopia and poetry are much more in the forefront. While "Arabian Nights" is pretty flawless anyway and clearly by far the best of the three films, I would like to speak up for "Il Decameron" a little, if only for the sheer beauty of the photography, the setting and the characters. So a purely emotional reaction, and I would have my diffculties defending it in a more intellectual discussion. It's probably not really great, but it's an incredibly uplifting film, very much fitted for watching on warm summer evenings, and somehow it manages to disarm my usual critical distance.

Anonymous

#87 Post by Anonymous » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:33 am

The thing with Pasolini is that the more familiar one is with his overall body of work, the more appreciative one is to the achievements that might at first look odd. If one is familiar with Pasolini's worldview, his ideals and wishes (not only from the films but also from the books, poems, essays and interviews) then the Trilogy of Life becomes an astonishingly beautiful work. If you just encounter it without a lot of prior knowledge of PPP, then you may be put of by it (I know a lot of people who were). I saw Il fiore delle mille e una notte at the best imaginable time: absolutely obsessed by Pasolini, seeking out every information of him that I could find. I saw it in a (to my surprise) sold-out theatre one a big screen in a beautiful print and it was amazing. It was a manifestation of a will to live and enjoy the world before Pasolini realized that it was all too late for him, that he must defend this world (or better: his world) with a vengeance. That then resulted in Salò. The transition from the Trilogy of Life to Salò is absolutely extraordinary, because truly unprecedented. It was as if PPP was dreaming of a better world for all these years and then suddenly realized that he couldn't go on. He realized that he as an artist had a mission to accomplish, which was tell the world something about itself. For that honesty he was murdered. Only proof how right he was with Salò.

Still, I must say that the most enjoyable PPP films for me remain Teorema and Il Vangelo Secondo Matteo as well as the shorts La sequenza del fiore di carta and Che cosa sono le nuvole?. They show the artist at perfect balance with himself and explore the conflict of Eros and Thanatos very profoundly. Also, the two shorts are hilariously funny and entertaining at times.

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zedz
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#88 Post by zedz » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:24 pm

Tommaso wrote: I'm not sure whether one can really call any of his films minor, because they all add up to the specific statement he wanted to make, like a mosaic. That includes even "Canterbury Tales", which I also find bad for the most part. Still I wouldn't want to go without his Chaucer impersonation. And still I wonder whether the roughness and amateurishness (that awful editing non-technique!) of "Canterbury Tales" and partly also "Il Decameron" was carelessness or also part of the artistic statement he wanted to make (i.e suggesting a rough, 'uncivilized' way of filming and living).
I love the rough, slab-like nature of Pasolini's editing. The brutality of the juxtapositions in Porcile lend it an awful lot of its power. But in Canterbury Tales it does seem more sloppy than deliberate. The redeeming feature of the film for me is Franco Citti's appearance as Death in the Pardoner's Tale. He brings a real gravity to the role which anchors the entire sequence and makes me wish the rest of the film were as good.

On a semi-related matter, cricket-loving Pasolini fans should check out this. Much better than Peckinpah's Salad Days!

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Tommaso
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#89 Post by Tommaso » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:26 am

Stan Czarnecki wrote: If you just encounter it without a lot of prior knowledge of PPP, then you may be put of by it (I know a lot of people who were). I saw Il fiore delle mille e una notte at the best imaginable time: absolutely obsessed by Pasolini, seeking out every information of him that I could find..
Strange, "Arabian Nights" was I believe my very first Pasolini, and I didn't know anything about the man then, but I nevertheless loved it immediately. Probably it was just a sort of exotistic pleasure for me at the time.
Stan Czarnecki wrote: the shorts La sequenza del fiore di carta and Che cosa sono le nuvole?. They show the artist at perfect balance with himself and explore the conflict of Eros and Thanatos very profoundly. Also, the two shorts are hilariously funny and entertaining at times

Both of them didn't do too much for me, although I liked them. But I found them never as provocative or intense as "La ricotta", for instance. Having Ninetto as the only protagonist of a film, like in "La sequenza", seems a little problematic as well. I like his Chaplinesque appearances in general, but they work better in the context of a full movie for me.
Which reminds me of another Paso short/episode I've never seen, "La terra vista della luna" from "Le streghe". Is that out somewhere with English subs?
zedz wrote:The brutality of the juxtapositions in Porcile lend it an awful lot of its power. But in Canterbury Tales it does seem more sloppy than deliberate.

That's precisely what I had in mind. Paso's editing was never fluent, but while in all his other films there is a controlled roughness, in "Canterbury Tales" it just appears rushed and unintentional.
zedz wrote:On a semi-related matter, cricket-loving Pasolini fans should check out this. Much better than Peckinpah's Salad Days!

LOOOOOL!! I had totally forgotten about this. But it also shows that Paso at times could be pretty predictable, otherwise a parody like this wouldn't have been possible.

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#90 Post by MichaelB » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:38 am

Tommaso wrote:That's precisely what I had in mind. Paso's editing was never fluent, but while in all his other films there is a controlled roughness, in "Canterbury Tales" it just appears rushed and unintentional.
From what I hear, Pasolini took a shine to one of the assistants in the London post-production studio when he was finishing The Canterbury Tales, which distracted him somewhat. Working in a foreign language probably didn't help either (although all soundtracks are post-synced, the English version is definitely the versione originale, and not just because of Chaucer's nationality - Tom Baker in dubbed Italian is a travesty!)

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#91 Post by david hare » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:09 am

I dont think either Paso's dalliance with someone from the English lab or his unfamiliarity with English is the problem with Canterbury Tales.

Neither is the issue the "roughness" of the editing. The problem lies in his complete failure to reconcile tone with narrative. It's an extremely ugly film, far more "ugly", even than Salo but for different reasons.

I can't put more on it than to say this is one film in which he seems to be allowing contempt for his characters to seep through. With the sole exception of Ninetto.

I just hate this movie. Yet I can still watch sequences from Salo and feel completely moved.

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knives
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Re: Pier Paolo Pasolini on DVD

#92 Post by knives » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:41 pm

Any feelings on how the Water Bearer discs hold up compared to the other editions. BN has Vol 2 for twenty bucks right now and I just want to ensure I'm not cheating myself to save a couple of bucks.

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Tommaso
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Re: Pier Paolo Pasolini on DVD

#93 Post by Tommaso » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:51 pm

By all accounts, they should be avoided. If I remember correctly, they even mixed up some reels in "Porcile". Go for the BFI and Tartan (if you can still find them) releases, they're really worth it.

richast2
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Re: Pier Paolo Pasolini on DVD

#94 Post by richast2 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:50 pm

The Water Bearer discs are atrocious.

onedimension
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Re: Pier Paolo Pasolini on DVD

#95 Post by onedimension » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:16 pm

Any hopes for more good Region A/1 releases?

Hail_Cesar
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Re: Pier Paolo Pasolini on DVD

#96 Post by Hail_Cesar » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:49 pm

onedimension wrote:Any hopes for more good Region A/1 releases?
I Hope you have enough money for a region B/2 player...

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