Von Stroheim's Greed

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Antoine Doinel
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#51 Post by Antoine Doinel » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:40 pm

You don't need an iPod to watch movies. You can download the movie in iTunes and watch it on your computer.

jaredsap
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#52 Post by jaredsap » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:00 pm

Antoine Doinel wrote:You don't need an iPod to watch movies. You can download the movie in iTunes and watch it on your computer.
You can also watch it on your TV using an Apple TV device.

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swo17
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#53 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:02 pm

I would pay no small sum for a decent DVD/Blu presentation of Greed, but I will never, ever, EVER buy anything from iTunes.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#54 Post by jaredsap » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:24 pm

swo17 wrote:I would pay no small sum for a decent DVD/Blu presentation of Greed, but I will never, ever, EVER buy anything from iTunes.
Have fun. There are many excellent movies available on iTunes (sometimes in beautiful new HD transfers) unavailable (legally) anywhere else in R1. As I said, you can easily watch them on your TV. But they don't come with a plastic case and physical artwork, so I guess they all must be boycotted in your eyes.

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Antoine Doinel
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#55 Post by Antoine Doinel » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:45 pm

jaredsap wrote:
swo17 wrote:I would pay no small sum for a decent DVD/Blu presentation of Greed, but I will never, ever, EVER buy anything from iTunes.
Have fun. There are many excellent movies available on iTunes (sometimes in beautiful new HD transfers) unavailable (legally) anywhere else in R1. As I said, you can easily watch them on your TV. But they don't come with a plastic case and physical artwork, so I guess they all must be boycotted in your eyes.
Um, Apple's "beautiful new HD transfers" are actually only 720p not 1080p. So a BluRay is going to look much better. So strike one.

Strike two, is that unless you live in the United States the selection of films can be erratic and strange at best. So by "releasing" films only on iTunes, studios are doing a great job of cutting out potential revenue streams and effectively cutting the market for potential buyers, which is already niche, to be pretty much nonexistent.

No one is talking about a boycott, but having one of the most important silent films ever made be released with, I dunno, some extras and some kind of reverence for the source material instead of dumped in a marketplace where no one even looks for silents to begin with might be a start. This is a title that year after year was asked about at WB HTF chats, and promised year and year to be released, only to get this slap in the face.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#56 Post by jaredsap » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:52 pm

Antoine Doinel wrote:Um, Apple's "beautiful new HD transfers" are actually only 720p not 1080p. So a BluRay is going to look much better. So strike one.
Um, of course Blu-ray is going to look much better. Blu-rays are also going to look much better than DVDs. But I ain't going to stop watching all other formats just because Blu-ray discs exist.
No one is talking about a boycott, but having one of the most important silent films ever made be released with, I dunno, some extras and some kind of reverence for the source material instead of dumped in a marketplace where no one even looks for silents to begin with might be a start. This is a title that year after year was asked about at WB HTF chats, and promised year and year to be released, only to get this slap in the face.
I didn't comment on WB's behavior. Of course GREED is worthy of far more than an iTunes dump. I responded to Swo's self-righteous declaration that he will "never, ever, EVER buy anything from iTunes."

To each their own.

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Antoine Doinel
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#57 Post by Antoine Doinel » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:02 pm

My point is, for Apple to advertise "beautiful HD transfers" in 720p is misleading at best. 720p is not HD.

And as for swo, he's not the only that doesn't buy from iTunes (I don't either). There is a pretty vocal contingent out there of people who don't and the service does have its shortcomings.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#58 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:17 pm

jaredsap wrote:I responded to Swo's self-righteous declaration that he will "never, ever, EVER buy anything from iTunes."

To each their own.
That is probably the first time in my life that I have ever been called self-righteous, so, um, thanks. BTW Jared, I have appreciated your input elsewhere on the forum, and I mean no antagonism by statement. I simply meant to echo the sentiment that if iTunes sales don't go so well, it's not just because of a lack of interest in the title. For various reasons that I don't feel like going into right now, I consider iTunes one of a handful of evil corporate interests to which I intend never to impart even one slippery cent. Other such evilities include Wal-Mart, Dell Computers, and George Lucas. Call it a boycott if you will, but my feelings for iTunes are beside the point really. The issue here is the exclusivity. Imagine the rumblings that would ensue if Criterion started issuing all of its product exclusively on Blu-ray, and you have just a taste of how my digestive tract is handling this Greed deal.

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reno dakota
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#59 Post by reno dakota » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:18 pm

Antoine Doinel wrote:720p is not HD.
Wherever did you get that impression? 720p is not 1080p, both both are HD formats. Now, if Apple had claimed that their transfers are "Blu-ray quality" or "Blu-ray resolution," they would certainly be misleading us.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#60 Post by oldsheperd » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:21 pm

I have a similar gripe about releasing stuff on i-tunes. I understand that it's cost effective for them to only release stuff on i-tunes but it would be nice to have multiple options. I for one am still in the dark ages so I don't have an i pod or any of that stuff so it would be nice to see a dvd. And yes I like all the packaging and bells and whistles.

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Gregory
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#61 Post by Gregory » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:45 pm

I saw the 4-hour resto on VHS years ago and can damned well do it again. It's in a fairly good number of libraries. Aside from not being in the habit of downloading anything on iTunes, I don't want to reward this decision with a purchase. I realize that eventually the physical formats we take for granted will become less common, but there's no need to encourage that day to come sooner, especially when it comes to historically important films that deserve a physical release. For one thing, still more than a third of U.S. homes don't have internet access, mostly lower-income, and they deserve access to classic films just as much as the rest of us.

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Sloper
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#62 Post by Sloper » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:26 pm

I've only seen the 4-hour Greed on YuckTub, and it's kind of odd that Warners are putting that version on iTunes, rather than the far more accessible and entertaining 2-hour version, with the Carl Davis score. (Or am I wrong, and both versions are available?) The reconstruction is fascinating, of course, but probably only of interest to fans who already know the film quite well, and who would want to see this getting a proper bells-and-whistles release. I would imagine that sales will indeed be pretty dismal...

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#63 Post by david hare » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:25 pm

Rick Schmidlin's reconstruction of Greed with cards and pohotos is I think much more successful than the comparable work done by Ronald Haver on for instance A Star is Born. For various reasons, not least the total incompleteness of the existing Greed it FEELS far less than "full". Although I agree having both two and four hour versions is the best shot.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#64 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:28 pm

It's so insane, now the price of the Anniversary VHS, already absurdly high, will skyrocket. They obviously already had a decent enough digital transfer to produce this home vid edition (which I'm holding on to for dear life), I can't see why they didn't at VERY least just dump it into their Archive collection as a special ed 2-discer. What the fuck's so hard about that-- it's far less embarassing for them in front of the world of cineastes/directors/journalists/professors than what they're doing now with iTunes, which basically makes them a fucking laughingstock.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#65 Post by HypnoHelioStaticStasis » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:38 pm

I understand everyone's concern, and I too am lamenting Warner's apathy with their catalog (C'mon, the economy's gonna pick up... you have time to go back to the old business model), but let's not be too hasty with this whole itunes thing. I only say that because it isn't the end of the line for this release; a lot of films have been put onto itunes before they were released on DVD, such as John Huston's The Dead.

Just relax, guys. Let's see what the new year will bring.

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HerrSchreck
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#66 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:28 pm

Dude the time to say that was 3 yrs ago, when they missed their first or second officially announced release time for this title.

Nice sentiment-- wrong home video title.

There's an old saying, you know, that we have up here in Bx. It goes 'Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, you uh... wit-- mphh..." sound of wall clock ticking... stomach blurble, "We uh can't-- we won't get fooled again!'

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#67 Post by HypnoHelioStaticStasis » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:58 pm

I think Ol' Dubya would've benefited from sitting down to watch Greed. :wink:

Then again, who wouldn't?

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#68 Post by Props55 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:35 pm

Well as a card carrying irritable old cuss and a major luddite, I must register my extreme displeasure at this most recent example of Warner shoving a sharp stick up its corporate ass. Hell, I'm still steamed at the concept of the Archive Warehouse Sale. DVD-R are what my computer literate friends send me for free so I can actually enjoy a title unavailable worldwide or prior to legit commercial release not something I pay a premium price for and have shipped at grossly inflated rates!

As HerrShreck and others have noted this title has been promised as a forthcoming special edition for at least five years. I'm certain that supplements (commentary(s), documentary, print material, etc) exist and/or are virtually complete. It was never going sell in units of even five figures much less six or seven. It's a prestiege project and a loss leader. As such it's hardly a unique project for Warner. And it's certainly less of resource to revenue drain than Fox's Ford and Murnau/Borzage mega-sets. The idea that it couldn't be zipped out in a nice two-disc TCM set is ludicrous. If marketing and production costs were that prohibitive then the fact that it wasn't offered as an Archive selection is beyond insane! That its only legit commerical venue as a niche title in a niche genre revered by a niche audience of mostly over 40 elitist film fogeys and yet is being marketed as if it were some contempo pop ditty is just fucking stupid! If the economy is to blame for Warners chicken-shit/Chicken Little belt tightening then how-the- hell-come Sony hasn't gotten the memo? If someone had told me two years ago that the release rate of deep library titles from these two would be virtually reversed I'd have testified at their commital hearing! Yet this has come to pass!

And just so no one mistakes me for a completely disagreeable misanthrope, I'll concur with Mr. Hare that the Schmidlin reconstruction is the most successful of its type, with Sloper that said version is an odd choice for iTunes, with Gregory and oldshepard that the audience (fan and institutional/educational) that would most benefit are not the most technologically-up-to-date, with swo17 that there are at least a few corporations that are evil incarnate and with Mr. Doinel and the Schreckster that Warner is wearing its ass for a hat!

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#69 Post by Saturnome » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:43 pm

Props55 wrote:The idea that it couldn't be zipped out in a nice two-disc TCM set is ludicrous.
Just my useless opinion on this: any decent release of this film should include both the 2 and 4 hour versions, and so that's 3 discs, I think. Maybe that's quite a heavy release for a single, silent film.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#70 Post by Highway 61 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:11 am

It might be too heavy if this were Universal. Warners, on the other hand, put out a three disc digipack of The Jazz Singer with major supplements. I can't see how Greed, properly marketed, would not sell better. And because this is such a niche product, WB could have a field day packing it with lobby card reproductions and other useless shit just to raise the price. They could charge whatever they want. Mainstream audiences wouldn't buy this if it were ten dollars, yet because this is such an essential film that's been MIA for so long, the enthusiasts wouldn't sit around for the price to drop like we will for Gone With the Wind and The Wizard of Oz.

And even if Warner Bros. isn't willing to release it themselves, there's always Criterion, Kino, etc. I actually wrote to Criterion, imploring them to release it now that Warner has definitively fucked it up.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#71 Post by Tommaso » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:16 am

What is the rights situation for "Greed" in countries outside the US? I'm just asking because another long-announced and never-released title, Sjöström's "The Wind", is now available on disc in Italy, even if that is a somewhat sub-standard edition. So there might be some loopholes for getting "Greed" released in other countries, if Warner is unwilling to licence it to another company like Kino or CC.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#72 Post by perkizitore » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:34 am

Sign up for the DVD on Amazon. It may persuade Warner to make an actual release.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#73 Post by Perkins Cobb » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:42 am

Friend of mine who has iTunes says the Greed file is only 2.4GB. Half the size of a single-layer DVD ... for a four-hour movie.

So I'm guessing that if you do have the technology to watch this on a real TV, it'll look pretty crummy. No sale. Warners ... man, how the mighty have fallen.

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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#74 Post by perkizitore » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:08 am

Perkins Cobb wrote:Friend of mine who has iTunes says the Greed file is only 2.4GB. Half the size of a single-layer DVD ... for a four-hour movie.

So I'm guessing that if you do have the technology to watch this on a real TV, it'll look pretty crummy. No sale. Warners ... man, how the mighty have fallen.
They probably recorded it from TCM and then acquired the rights to sell it! :P

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Tommaso
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Re: Von Stroheim's Greed

#75 Post by Tommaso » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:34 am

It rather seems they downloaded it from one of the many filesharing communities and now sell it as their own. Beat the bootleggers :?

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