TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

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EddieLarkin
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am

Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#101 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:40 pm

I received my new disc from MU. Compare this cap from my disc with this one from the old.

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tenia
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#102 Post by tenia » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:18 pm

I'm not sure one can 100% compare them, but while the compression issues are gone, isn't the new disc much darker ?

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Drucker
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#103 Post by Drucker » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:18 pm

Honestly, there were some scenes when I saw the restoration in theaters where I was shocked at how dark it was. The silhouetted images of them walking through the aquarium are near-black at points, for example.

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pzadvance
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#104 Post by pzadvance » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:45 pm


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chatterjees
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#105 Post by chatterjees » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:34 pm

"Transparent DVD-sized Keep Case inside cardboard slipcase"...when will they ever learn???

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EddieLarkin
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#106 Post by EddieLarkin » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:37 pm

The new version is Blu-ray sized.

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chatterjees
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#107 Post by chatterjees » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:12 pm

So, Gary got a special DVD casing?

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EddieLarkin
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#108 Post by EddieLarkin » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:19 am

After watching this disc I can say for certain that something is totally off with the level of darkness. Many of the dark scenes were people are wearing dark coloured suits, there is little detail there, just black blobs. David Hare posted over on HTF about his experience with trying to correct this issue, and found that simply bumping up the brightness was a workable solution. I tried it myself and sure enough those black blobs now reveal real detail, and the disc looks much better (with the already acknowledged superior encoding).

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EddieLarkin
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#109 Post by EddieLarkin » Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:05 pm


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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#110 Post by giovannii84 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:10 am

EddieLarkin wrote:Peculiar development.
What are Mill Creek releases like ? I'm not familiar with this label

Zot!
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#111 Post by Zot! » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:30 am

giovannii84 wrote:
EddieLarkin wrote:Peculiar development.
What are Mill Creek releases like ? I'm not familiar with this label
Crap.

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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#112 Post by giovannii84 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:40 am

Zot! wrote:
giovannii84 wrote:
EddieLarkin wrote:Peculiar development.
What are Mill Creek releases like ? I'm not familiar with this label
Crap.
Great... This is screaming for a Criterion release

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tenia
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#113 Post by tenia » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:46 am

Zot! wrote:
giovannii84 wrote:
EddieLarkin wrote:Peculiar development.
What are Mill Creek releases like ? I'm not familiar with this label
Crap.
More cheap stuff than crap. When they get good material, it's not so bad but dont expect any editorial work.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#114 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:05 am

I am still way surprised this hasn't ended up with Criterion. Would love to know how the deal for this went down. Did Sony never offer to CC, but then you would think CC would have asked about licensing it if they really wanted it. Maybe Becker hates the film the way he loves It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, which in this case it would be a mad world.

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dwk
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#115 Post by dwk » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:13 pm

tenia wrote: More cheap stuff than crap. When they get good material, it's not so bad but dont expect any editorial work.
That about sums it up. Most of the Sony stuff they have released looks pretty decent, but they don't create/port over special features and they almost never include lossless audio.

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tojoed
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#116 Post by tojoed » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:19 pm

EddieLarkin wrote: David Hare posted over on HTF about his experience...
Blimey, David Hare defecting to the loons, who would have thought it?

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tenia
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#117 Post by tenia » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:54 pm

dwk wrote:
tenia wrote: More cheap stuff than crap. When they get good material, it's not so bad but dont expect any editorial work.
That about sums it up. Most of the Sony stuff they have released looks pretty decent, but they don't create/port over special features and they almost never include lossless audio.
I agree with the extras but most of the releases I know from Mill Creek have lossless audio : The Grand Duel, The Replacement Killers, When A Stranger Calls, Hollow Man, Ship of Fools + Lilith, Hollywood Homicide + Hudson Hawk, The Squid and the Whale, Krull, Color of Night, Billy Bathgate, New York Stories, etc etc. I mean : even That 70s Show has a DTS HD MA 5.1 track ! (and extras !)

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david hare
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#118 Post by david hare » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:55 pm

tojoed wrote:
EddieLarkin wrote: David Hare posted over on HTF about his experience...
Blimey, David Hare defecting to the loons, who would have thought it?

Thanks for the intended insult. From you of all people.


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warren oates
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#120 Post by warren oates » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:52 pm

Ian Jane usually knows what he's talking about. So it's too bad that there are no specifics about the precise bitrate or the contrast problems that have plagued past issues of this title. Maybe the third time's a charm, but it looks like we're still waiting to find out.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#121 Post by Roger Ryan » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:13 pm

warren oates wrote:Ian Jane usually knows what he's talking about. So it's too bad that there are no specifics about the precise bitrate or the contrast problems that have plagued past issues of this title. Maybe the third time's a charm, but it looks like we're still waiting to find out.
While there are no comparison screencaps, the provided samples seem to indicate that the blacks aren't crushed as much as on the second TCM edition. In fact, judging by the one common screencap between the Rock! Shock! Pop! review and the DVDBeaver review, I'd say the Mill Creek issue might be a little brighter than the first TCM edition.

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david hare
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#122 Post by david hare » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:19 pm

david hare wrote:
warren oates wrote:Ian Jane usually knows what he's talking about. So it's too bad that there are no specifics about the precise bitrate or the contrast problems that have plagued past issues of this title. Maybe the third time's a charm, but it looks like we're still waiting to find out.
It really is time to set the record straight on this saga.

Do you really think Ian Jane is reliable? I hadn't read him before but I now have all THREE discs of this and saw the 4k last year. I have no idea what print damage he's talking about, can he specify the timelines? I can't because the restoration was so thorough and quite frankly there aren't any. Next he mentions some opticals and fluctuations (I assume he means density fluctuations but he doesn't say, maybe he doesn't know) but probably 80% of the film is shot with optical process single or multiple - given this, the absence of density fluctuations on ALL of the optical transitions, mattes, travelling mattes and a dual or triple layered optical sequence like the Aquarium are now totally without drops in quality (or density fluctuations) and IMO the 4k is as close to original fine grain 35 as you could possibly achieve, and in some cases (color timing, meaning grayscale) probably better than first run 35mm. I last saw this in 35 in Paris 1982 in a new print. It was good but not near as good as this. The 4k is one of the best restorations of anything I have ever seen. So I don't consider Mr Jane's opinion in any way reliable, on this at least.

The first TCM was botched with the low bitrate, lossy audio and all the rest, as you know. The second TCM was a remaster including the Eddie Muller pieces, a lossless LPCM audio track and higher bitrate which completely eradicated some of the minor compression artefacts that were present in the first encode, if you blew it up at points to see them. (I did.) Unfortunately in the actual physical pressing of the discs some fool at the facility pressed the "FULL" button for encoding rather than the "LEGAL" setting which is what is normally used for BD color space range 709. The FULL setting is a professional parameter which is not normally used for commercial BD. This gave rise to the black crush and my accidental discovery of the solution (turning up the brightness level on the PJ or your monitor 20%) returned all the crushed shadow detail. In other words the master they had for 1080p was perfect, but was fucked up at the pressing stage. I was contacted elsewhere by someone who was a senior technician on the original 4k and master for 1080p who confirmed what I was seeing. I understand from others subsequently that Sony were not happy with the sloppy handling by TCM (who would be?) it was likely any further TCM releases of their Crisp 4k titles would get proper handling, as they now have, viz. Only Angels have Wings which was given as good a treatment as It Happened One Night 4k was afforded by Criterion.

So the Mill Creek now supports the higher bitrate encode and is WITHOUT the botched black crush issue. NO Eddie Muller however. But that allows them to press this as single layer BD25. (Always look on the bright side.)

And that's the story.

I really am pissed off by reviewers like Jane and Kauffman who keep feeling the need to mention "occasional" or "Some" print damage without ever saying where, as though they feel obliged to trumpet their ability to judge filmic qualities with frankly totally invented negatives.
Last edited by david hare on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hearthesilence
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#123 Post by hearthesilence » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:57 pm

It's probably an easy way of covering their ass, just in case anyone complains about a moment of visible damage. But yeah, it is annoying to stamp that on every review.

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jsteffe
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#124 Post by jsteffe » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:32 pm

Thanks for your detailed comments, David. They're truly helpful. I saw the 4K last year in Bologna and thought it looked terrific, but I never picked up either TCM Blu-ray edition. It sounds as if the Mill Creek (!) version should be just fine for me.

P.S. - David, have you ever been to Il Cinema Ritrovato in Bologna? It's cinephile heaven! And it's in Bologna...

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david hare
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Re: TCM Vault: The Lady From Shanghai

#125 Post by david hare » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:03 pm

Pleasure Jim! I should add I think the Only Angels 4k and BD is as good as this peak level work. It actually sometimes displays the qualities of nitrate film- dusky blacks and grays, and sparkling silver hints through shots of filtering smoke, rain, water, cloud. It's totally gorgeous. It has been doing the FF rounds as well and I hope it will this year at NZIFF. FWIW I think the same things about Crisp's superb 4K It happened One Night - it and even the film are almost enough to get me interested in Capra again, but really nothing after precode.

Bologna I've never made, I know a bunch of people who go each year - Jeff Gardiner and Ken Wallin from Sydney, Margaret and George Knapp from London, Peter Hourigan from Melbourne. And Dave Kehr of course. Maybe You've met. Tom, Armin and others from Germany of course..... It sounds like quite a scene, down to the artisanal gelato. Maybe next year, this year is impossible for me. (Just sorted out retirement income. And I can't cope with cattle class for the 24 hour haul to Europe. Back to streetwalking and cheap BJs to bolster the income.)

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