Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

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perkizitore
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#176 Post by perkizitore » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:34 pm

movielocke wrote:Three caballeros and Saludos amigos were released on Blu-ray as a set at the end of January. But only as a Disney movie club exclusive.
If any member is willing to help me acquire this release, please send me a PM.

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ianthemovie
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#177 Post by ianthemovie » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:57 pm

perkizitore wrote:If any member is willing to help me acquire this release, please send me a PM.
They're currently going for ~$35 on eBay.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#178 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:32 pm

perkizitore wrote:
movielocke wrote:Three caballeros and Saludos amigos were released on Blu-ray as a set at the end of January. But only as a Disney movie club exclusive.
If any member is willing to help me acquire this release, please send me a PM.
It doesn't look like you can pick this as selection (for one's initial batch at least) even if one joins the club...

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movielocke
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#179 Post by movielocke » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:35 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:
perkizitore wrote:
movielocke wrote:Three caballeros and Saludos amigos were released on Blu-ray as a set at the end of January. But only as a Disney movie club exclusive.
If any member is willing to help me acquire this release, please send me a PM.
It doesn't look like you can pick this as selection (for one's initial batch at least) even if one joins the club...
usually it takes about 60-90 days post release for these titles to become available as an enrollment selection.

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movielocke
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Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#180 Post by movielocke » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:43 pm

I wouldn’t expect prices to dip much below $35. Club price is I think 24.99 plus four or five bucks shipping and handling (to original purchaser) plus tax, plus new shipping when they sell it to you So most resellers will have a hefty overhead on this title and can’t expect to make money unless the price is at least thirty five.

Now you could get your “unit” price down by reselling all the enrollment titles, and maximizing the volume you buy of three caballeros as fulfillment selections, for instance if they have a free shipping sale or a Buy one get half off sale, you could wind up with three to six copies of caballeros to resell and have a lower unit cost.

But if Disney realizes that they’re selling tons of orders with multiple copies to feed the resale beast, they’ll probably just put it out in stores.

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JamesF
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#181 Post by JamesF » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:21 am

This side-by-side comparison of a fan-made scan of a 35mm print of Cinderella and the Blu-Ray has provoked some interesting discussions on Twitter recently, including from Matt Zoller Seitz and our own peerpee. I’m not sure I can link to the forum where the fan restoration is being discussed and funding for it solicited, but needless to say if you’re a Star Wars fan, you may already be familiar with it.

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Adam Grikepelis
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#182 Post by Adam Grikepelis » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:15 pm

Yeah, sadly Disney seem intent on ensuring all their older animated films look as if they never saw a frame of celluloid.

beamish13
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#183 Post by beamish13 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:01 pm

What a travesty. All of the layers of cels that were drafted by teams of lead animators and in-betweeners and carefully photographed
through multiplane cameras can be eradicated by a digital technician on a whim. At least Disney has done an optimal job of protecting
their original camera negatives, so hopefully their oeuvre can be enjoyed again in their true forms.

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movielocke
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#184 Post by movielocke » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:47 pm

Last year I went to the anniversary restoration premiere in 4k at the el capitan of "the many adventures of winnie the pooh" the delicate colors and structure of the watercolors and line work was fully intact, in fact I was sort of blown away at how complex the watercolor patterns and backgrounds were, the trees for example have bark that is full of subtle gradations between a wide array of colors. Having seen it innumerable times on VHS and DVD, I knew I'd never seen that level of detail and brush complexity in the film before.

Then a few months ago, a couple months after we got our sony 4K TV, winnie the pooh, the original DVD issue, wound up in the bluray player on the new TV, and lo and behold, I noticed the same unseen subtleties in the tree coloration as before. Having seen the film recently many times on our old Panasonic Plasma, I knew that it played back much muddier, less detailed, and lacking those fine color gradations. But there it was as clear as day in the upscale on the Sony TV.

So, one, it seems Disney is not necessarily just using a paint bucket restoration on every frame of every film. two, monitor representation may not be reflective of the actual encode. Three, I probably have a lot of false attribution going on, it took seeing the film in 4k on a big screen to notice some details I'd never seen before, and then when I looked for those same details on the DVD, discovered they were in fact there, I probably just had never had my eye drawn to them before.

The cinderella is a fairly outrageous representation, how do we know for certain that this was not someone with an agenda, adding a bit of their own photoshop fakery to the bluray image to try to bolster their case? Has anyone found that exact frame and compared it to a VHS or LD source or a 35 or 16mm source, it would be a good way to see if people are being scammed by the outrage machinery of the internet. And the post above me says it's comparing a 35mm scan to the bluray, but I don't see anyone claiming that anywhere in the twitter thread, that comment is only made here.

and even a vintage 35mm scan isn't going to be necessarily authoritative in regards to color, because it would have been color timed for prints with the expectation it would use a carbon arc projection color temperature, vs the xenon lamp that a modern print would be timed for, and presumably a film scanner would be set for. You could easily deliberately or inadvertantly make a lot of very bad claims about color manipulation simply by representing via a modern-timed image harvest an image that was timed for vintage equipment. This is all beside the point of the weird corporate preferences of the thirties and forties forced on hollywood by the dictates of technicolor and Nathalie Kalmus, decisions that may have been overridden when new prints were struck by people like Disney, perhaps quite rightly, once the technicolor corporate influence had waned.

In any event, Disney has access to extremely well preserved original elements, as well as accompanying documentation of all their feature films. There are color charts to any of the classic Disney films that say "use precisely this color mix for this color, and here is the scale of how that paint color will change for each lighting condition this color may pass through, since a different shade of paint would have to be mixed for each lighting condition. The coherence of the entire film was at stake, so such charts were thorough and meticulous. Disney has all these resources and many more and does in fact access them when restoring film elements.

yes they also do paint over work, but one only has to look at the pinocchio bluray up close (for example) to see there is still in fact pretty fine film grain throughout the image, as well as you're able to discern brushstrokes if you look for them. So I think the representation of the paint over work on the special features that disney has put out claim that every frame has been reanimated in the computer, may be a promotional exaggeration, and it is much more likely that some problematic scenes have been repaired this way and it's been blown out of proportion in the process of selling the restoration as a really big impressive deal.

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Feego
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#185 Post by Feego » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:43 pm

There is evidence of a similar issue with Dumbo in the DVDBeaver caps. Scroll down to the third set of caps, from the scene of Dumbo's mother being restrained with ropes. The colors of the men's clothing are totally different on the Blu-ray and DVD, and distinct lines on the blue costumes in the DVD cap are rendered nearly invisible on the Blu, similar to Cinderella's costume in the link above.

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Adam Grikepelis
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#186 Post by Adam Grikepelis » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:47 pm

There’s evidence, unfortunately, of issues with a number of Disney’s pre-digital animation BD releases (relevant entries begin halfway down the linked page).
Mostly, though, it’s primarily been with absent grain & altered colour, from what I’ve seen.

Zot!
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 am

Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#187 Post by Zot! » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:28 am

This is old news because the Cinderella BD came out 4 years ago, and the animation fans were immediately complaining. Just the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid...the real issues arise (for me) with the films that also have widescreen equivalents, as Disney will always opt for the masked presentation for the BD (like Pooh). It's not like most films where you lose some headroom or ruin the composition, with animation you're actually removing artwork originally rendered by hand. I have no problem with also including the widescreen presentation, as it is similarly "historically accurate", but as it stands I prefer the old DVDs with the 4x3 fullscreen presenation. Mostly I just think this is scary with how streaming/downloads removes any choice from the consumer. I guess in the case of Pooh there was a HD version on iTunes based on the fullscreen version, which has now been entirely replaced by the latest restoration.

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Feego
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#188 Post by Feego » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:24 am

Yes, I have definitely held on to my old DVD of The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh after seeing caps for the Blu online. That one also looks rather soft from its scrubbing, and I understand The Sword in the Stone and Mickey's Christmas Carol are even worse. I can live with the, shall we say, re-interpretations of Cinderella and Dumbo because they at least are pleasing to look at even if they are not representative of the original theatrical releases. But the other three are just eyesores even without historical context.

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tenia
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Re: Disney/Buena Vista Catalog Titles on Blu

#189 Post by tenia » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:59 am

Sword in the Stone indeed is a visual nightmare and the animated equivalent of Predator UHE release.


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