The Future of Home Video

Discuss North American DVDs and Blu-rays or other DVD and Blu-ray-related topics.
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TMDaines
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#426 Post by TMDaines » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:47 pm

As always, the backchannels provide an invaluable service for helping ensure the widest array of content will remain available to a wide-ranging auidence. The commerical, legal streaming sites do not have that purpose.

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movielocke
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#427 Post by movielocke » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:46 pm

TMDaines wrote:
As always, the backchannels provide an invaluable service for helping ensure the widest array of content will remain available to a wide-ranging auidence. The commerical, legal streaming sites do not have that purpose.
This rationalization reminds me of a quote from one of my wife’s favorite movies, (we just watched it again)
Rocket Raccoon: Question. What if I see something that I wanna take and it belongs to someone else?

Rhomann Dey: Then you will be arrested.

Rocket Raccoon: But what if I want it more than the person who has it?

Rhomann Dey: Still illegal.

Rocket Raccoon: That doesn't follow. No, I want it more, sir. Do you understand me?

Tropical Kaiju
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#428 Post by Tropical Kaiju » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:38 pm

Quick question, all of you...

Should I spring for an Oppo UDP-203 while still available? I don't have any European of Japanese Blu ray discs, but I've been meaning to upgrade my system. I understand 4K discs are not region encoded at all. So, it would only be necessary to open up the possibility of buying non-region 1 blus.

I'm very happy with my Oppo multi-region DVD player, which is still trucking´after a long, long time.

I'm still burned by getting a HD-DVD player a month before Toshiba lost the format wars to Sony...

Is this a fool's errand?

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Drucker
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#429 Post by Drucker » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:46 pm

No. The player is fantastic, especially if you have CDs/SACDs.

The 203 is also available PRE-MODDED from 220 Electronics for the same cost of buying the player and doing the mod yourself via USB. I bought this two months ago and have been incredibly happy.

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furbicide
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#430 Post by furbicide » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:31 pm

TMDaines wrote:
As always, the backchannels provide an invaluable service for helping ensure the widest array of content will remain available to a wide-ranging auidence. The commerical, legal streaming sites do not have that purpose.
Couldn’t agree more. I still buy heaps of DVDs (and even videotapes, when necessary) and always try to support labels like Criterion, Arrow, Second Run, Re:Voir and others that put so much effort into their releases. Nevertheless, the film distribution market as a whole, whether it be streaming or physical, is simply unable or (simply due to existing in a capitalist system) unwilling to cope with the extent of quality cinema that’s out there, and that’s a situation that won’t be changing any time in the foreseeable future.

Further limitations, such as region (and lately geoblocking) restrictions only make the situation harder for those of us living outside the US. Region-free players are easy to get here, mercifully, but bypassing streaming site location settings is a great deal more challenging – and that means that not only do we miss out on Fandor, Filmstruck and a range of other good services, but that our version of Netflix is even smaller and less adventurous than its overseas counterparts. It’s a situation that necessitates some form of engagement outside the market; surely only the most pious cinephile doesn’t in some way or other.

I don’t see the work of backchannels as merely justifiable; I see their work as absolutely essential, and would argue that they are among the most erstwhile defenders of public engagement with cinema.
Last edited by furbicide on Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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StevenJ0001
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#431 Post by StevenJ0001 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:24 pm

Tropical Kaiju wrote:Quick question, all of you...

Should I spring for an Oppo UDP-203 while still available? I don't have any European of Japanese Blu ray discs, but I've been meaning to upgrade my system. I understand 4K discs are not region encoded at all. So, it would only be necessary to open up the possibility of buying non-region 1 blus.

I'm very happy with my Oppo multi-region DVD player, which is still trucking´after a long, long time.

I'm still burned by getting a HD-DVD player a month before Toshiba lost the format wars to Sony...

Is this a fool's errand?
I just bought one direct from Oppo--I was on the fence and this unfortunate news tipped me over. I've pined for an Oppo for years and was not going to miss out now!

I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for with regard to region capability, however. As you stated, 4K discs are not region encoded. Japanese Blu-rays are Region A, like the US, so you don't need a multi-region player for them if you're in the United States. Some but not all UK/European Blus are Region B, so you need multi-region capability for flexibility with UK/European Blus.

The 203 is Region A-only for Blu and Region 1-only for DVD, unless you buy a region-modded version as Drucker suggested.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#432 Post by DarkImbecile » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:06 am

MPAA Report: Physical Media Sales Continue Decline, Streaming Continues Rapid Growth
In 2017, combined global spending on theatrical and home entertainment hit $88.4 billion. Digital home entertainment, which includes streaming services, soared 31 percent year-over-year to $32.1 billion, while physical home entertainment spending continued to plummet, down 15 percent to $15.7 billion. But, thanks to digital — up a staggering 161 percent from five years ago — total home entertainment spending was up 11 percent ($47.8 billion).

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movielocke
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The Future of Home Video

#433 Post by movielocke » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:23 pm

And that digital 32 billion is without carrying any inventory, transit and manufacturing overhead costs associated with physical media.

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fdm
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#434 Post by fdm » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:26 pm

Drucker wrote:No. The player is fantastic, especially if you have CDs/SACDs.

The 203 is also available PRE-MODDED from 220 Electronics for the same cost of buying the player and doing the mod yourself via USB. I bought this two months ago and have been incredibly happy.
I just found out the external mods for the 103 may actually work on the 203, which would mean saving 60 bucks or so right there if you did it yourself (total could end up about $600 or so before shipping) (and I do now wonder what you would get different if you paid double for the 203 mod on ebay...).

I already have a 103 mod so I am leaning towards trying it myself to see, but at this point I'm pretty sure it's a viable, cheaper option than paying for someone else to include the mod. No proof until I do it myself, but others have claimed it works for them.

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jedgeco
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#435 Post by jedgeco » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:07 pm

fdm wrote:I already have a 103 mod so I am leaning towards trying it myself to see, but at this point I'm pretty sure it's a viable, cheaper option than paying for someone else to include the mod. No proof until I do it myself, but others have claimed it works for them.
If you do, please report back. I'm in the same boat with the 103 external mod.

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fdm
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#436 Post by fdm » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:33 pm

I added a little bit more information in the All-Region DVD and Blu-ray Player Advice thread the other day, and will do an update there once I know.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Annihilation (Alex Garland, 2018)

#437 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue May 22, 2018 11:28 am

Well, the digital release wound up being a week earlier so I just bought it for $14.99 on Vudu - these studios and services really need to get their ducks in a row with regard to their pricing model and availability of 4K content. For $24.99 you get a UHD disc that just has the feature, a Blu-ray that includes the bonus features, and a digital copy in 4K, but for 10 dollars less you get a 4K digital copy with all the bonus features... which for most people will be plenty for most films in 2018? But then having checked the Google Play store for this, they were charging a whopping $29.99 for the 4K digital copy of the film. $5 more than the disc copy, which... comes with a digital copy. :shock:

Maximizing the way I can watch films in HDR on my far too expensive LG television is proving to be pretty complicated and far too disorganized to appeal to most consumers. I hope studios (something like MoviesAnywhere is a great start, although of course a few studios are holding out because of course they are) and these many many online marketplaces start to work in tandem more as time goes along to make this more of a mainstream friendly process, or it might hurt UHD discs just by proxy.

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Re: Annihilation (Alex Garland, 2018)

#438 Post by tenia » Tue May 22, 2018 11:31 am

I guess this sums up quite well the current rolling out of new video techs and the implausible mess that goes with it. You'd think the industry would have learnt from format war and dilution of the consumers through too many access points, but nope.

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Re: Annihilation (Alex Garland, 2018)

#439 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue May 22, 2018 11:36 am

Off the top of my head, there is:

Ultraviolet, which works with Vudu and iTunes, but not both at once
Vudu
iTunes
Google Play
FandangoNOW
Amazon
MoviesAnywhere, which links purchases from Vudu, iTunes, Google Play, FandangoNOW, and Amazon, but only from some major film studios, not all
Sony
Microsoft
CinemaNow
Roku has its own store, if I recall correctly

And I'm sure I'm missing some. It's ghastly. And I'm maybe the biggest proponent of a move toward digital on this forum! I can count on two hands how many disc releases I bought in 2017, and it'll probably go down to one in 2018.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#440 Post by Ribs » Tue May 22, 2018 11:41 am

I know it's not really fair to pick out any one individual person's buying choices, but I see absolutely no reason even if it's substantially cheaper at first not to be buying every single UHD release that's available on disc that you're interested in. This movie really shouldn't have just barely gotten this release (and I say this as someone who's no fan of it), and I don't want to dissuade Paramount from continuing to embrace the format and focus on digital releases, which still have a huge way to go to even coming close to disc format.

Paramount isn't doing MA, but that's it. MA bills itself as a home for the big studios: Lionsgate and STX and whoever aren't invited, at least not at this stage. Which is interesting, considering Paramount's the studio that's been in the most financial trouble over the past year (by my estimates, Disney is on track to have at least four movies this year whose total domestic gross individually eclipse that of the entirety of last year's Paramount output) and yet is simultaneously the studio with the most catalog UHD releases by a big margin. I'm actually really bitter about MA: while it's great to have the sharing across platforms, I really appreciated how UV encourage friends to share libraries and miss that feature as newer and newer titles have become fewer and farther between.

(STX is a particularly bad one: for some reason, though they're not in the MA party, they've stopped using UV codes, which means Molly's Game only came with an iTunes code, which doesn't port elsewhere - if you were to buy the title on Vudu using Disc + Digital, you'd get a UV copy)

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tenia
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#441 Post by tenia » Tue May 22, 2018 11:47 am

Ribs wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:41 am
I see absolutely no reason even if it's substantially cheaper at first not to be buying every single UHD release that's available on disc that you're interested in.
You're answering this by yourself, actually. I myself am buying lots of BD releases out of curiosity, including (within the novelties) some I'm likely to find OK-ish but not enough to justify shelving out some more money for a medium I'm not yet equipped with.
I'd be equipped with currently, why not, but I'm so unlikely to revisit these later anyway that money actually is the main culprit here.

And this goes for everything : either you wait for the newer support to be at a price lowered enough (in these cases, I'm not looking to wait), or you select which movies you're likely to revisit later (hence justifying the amount you're paying for it) or for which a BD will be plenty enough.

And I'm a technophile regarding movies, so I'm extremely likely to have specific buying strategies. Average Joes ? Why would they pay $25 for a 4K disc if they can pay $15 and have the movie in 4K ? It's still 4K ! It even has the extra features !
That's where the studios are inconsistent and should really tighten up their price points, and I suppose that was mfunk's original point (which I agree with).
As a whole, the whole UHD rolling out is a mess anyway, and the whole stuff with HDR10, HDR10+, and now DV only makes things worse. I can't fathom somebody interested in this but not knowledgeable enough trying to make its way through this.
Last edited by tenia on Tue May 22, 2018 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#442 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue May 22, 2018 11:49 am

As far as sharing libraries goes, I don't have anyone in my personal life who I can conceive of going "hey, I own [digital movie X], wanna borrow it?" to, so that's out as a consideration for me personally. I know it isn't for some people, but that's something I wouldn't have even thought to check for.

Yes, I did consider that buying the disc would make an impact in terms of encouraging more UHD releases from Paramount, but by positioning it a week later than the digital 4K release (I'm just going with 'UHD' for discs and 'digital 4K' for digital, for the sake of my sanity) and making it a Best Buy exclusive (who wants to drive to the store to buy a disc anymore? Let me order it from Amazon, guys), they pretty much dug their own grave on that one. The $10 lower price point and the ability to watch it sooner sealed it for me, but it's all releative with regard to what film it is and how often I'm going to want to put it on and watch it - for as great as Annihilation is, it's not going to get popped into the disc drive every Thanksgiving in the ole mfunk household.

Phantom Thread was an essential purchase as a disc release because it's largely not the kind of film that's been getting UHD releases - regardless of the studio's woes and their relationship to the film, Annihilation is. Sci-fi and superhero pictures don't need my dollar nearly as much as costume dramas that were shot on film.

And yeah tenia - not just their price points, but their ability to surface "Okay, what devices do you have that you're going to want to watch this on in the long term? Here's where you should buy it, then." There's surely very little incentive for them to do that, but when I can only download the film on my Samsung phone at 1080p (or 'HDX,' gag me) from Vudu but the Google Play store would let me watch it at the max resolution of my phone in HDR, and the only reason I can only do the former is because Paramount doesn't play nice with MoviesAnywhere (for example, I can download the top quality version of Blade Runner 2049 from Google Play without issue despite buying that on Vudu too, since Warners has no problem with this)... I mean, this is a run-on sentence, but it's a run-on situation at the consumer level. It's a fucking mess.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#443 Post by Boosmahn » Tue May 22, 2018 12:46 pm

mfunk, you could count anime distributor FUNimation in that list as well. Interestingly, they've started to phase out DVDs (in combo packs) in favor of digital copies, something I didn't expect given the sticky rights issues that often come along with anime. It's not just movies: 20-episode series such as Psycho Pass are getting this treatment, too.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#444 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:34 pm

Aren't anime fans a lot more likely to collect something like disc-based box sets, too? Surprised to hear that, I thought that next to porn, anime would survive the physical release apocalypse the longest.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#445 Post by Boosmahn » Tue May 22, 2018 5:16 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:34 pm
Aren't anime fans a lot more likely to collect something like disc-based box sets, too?
For sure. Granted, the whole collectors' sets are still going strong. Case in point Aniplex USA: their 12-episode Kiznaiver set costs $120, but it still sells. To buy their entire catalogue would set you back who knows how many thousands.

FUNimation in particular, however, hasn't completely fazed out DVDs. Only re-releases of shows they've put out before have digital copies instead of DVDs (as of right now); some sets even have both. I'm sure some studios haven't allowed for their shows to be available for free with purchase digitally, which is probably the only thing holding FUNi back.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#446 Post by Big Ben » Tue May 22, 2018 5:43 pm

My knowledge of anime extends to things like Akira or Miyazaki but I know for a fact that dubbing is really important for some people. Owning the "1997 version with with dubs by 'x' is a really big thing." I don't understand why but it's a real thing apparently.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#447 Post by Banasa » Wed May 23, 2018 1:53 pm

Big Ben wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:43 pm
My knowledge of anime extends to things like Akira or Miyazaki but I know for a fact that dubbing is really important for some people. Owning the "1997 version with with dubs by 'x' is a really big thing." I don't understand why but it's a real thing apparently.
It's not unlike fandom withing martial arts or Godzilla films. People who watched these things have a strong nostalgic appeal to how they may have first encountered it when they were younger. People were crying blue murder when they couldn't get a british dub of Drunken Master that was on the old vhs tapes of yore on their new blu ray.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#448 Post by MichaelB » Wed May 23, 2018 2:41 pm

Banasa wrote:People were crying blue murder when they couldn't get a british dub of Drunken Master that was on the old vhs tapes of yore on their new blu ray.
As was the Eureka production team, for the record. They really did try to secure it, but they were contractually required to release the film by a certain date and they just ran out of time.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#449 Post by Banasa » Thu May 31, 2018 11:25 am

Ah, is that the reason? What a shame. Yes, if I do recall they definitely were not ignoring the issue. I was just happy to have any sort of copy of the film in a more than decent edition.

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