Céline and Julie Go Boating & Paris Nous Appartient

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Calvin
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#76 Post by Calvin » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:36 pm

There is a Blu-Ray release of La belle noiseuse out in Japan.

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Gregory
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#77 Post by Gregory » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:42 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Gregory wrote:Are there any blu-rays of Rivette's work anywhere? He seems like one of those directors the that hordes of people clamor for (Dumont being another) and yet no one has delivered a single blu-ray these past several years.
Alas, I fear that there actually only a tiny market for Rivette releases (said sadly, as I love his films).
With so much of his filmography released on many DVD editions, it's hard to see a miniscule market as the reason why none of his films have yet appeared on blu in North America or Europe. Rather it seems to be for reasons such as Artificial Eye mostly playing it safe when it comes to upgrading their back catalog, Criterion never having been very interested in Rivette apparently, New Yorker being hopeless as I opined before, etc.

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zedz
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#78 Post by zedz » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:36 pm

I must say, I've long been skeptical of the "Rivette = Box Office Poison" claims. His work is hardly obscure and inaccessible, he obviously does well enough in the UK that fourteen of his features have been released on DVD there. Something like Celine at Julie is just about as much fun as you can have with a film, and the Criterion audience should lap these films up. It's a case of finding somebody to champion them and work at presenting them to a North American audience in a vaguely strategic manner.

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#79 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:43 pm

Rivette (like Naruse) certainly has US champions -- and an adequate supply of people who will check out his films in festival/retrospective screenings -- but I think Criterion senses there is just not much of an audience who would buy the films of DVD/Blu-Ray here. I wish there was, but I suspect that there isn't.

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#80 Post by sidehacker » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:01 pm

You know, Ray Carney once wrote a glowing capsule for Celine and Julie.

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Gregory
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#81 Post by Gregory » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:06 pm

I remember before Criterion had released any Mizoguchi on DVD, Becker was quoted as saying there was a fear that there'd be too little demand for Mizo, even for Sansho or Ugetsu, but then they released one, then the other, and have continued. There's already demand for Rivette, and Criterion could further develop that. They've done so with many less-known filmmakers. I find it amazing they haven't gotten around to any Rivette. I think it's become a running gag at places like this because it's such a glaring omission and a hobby horse of those who have been waiting for Criterion to fill in some Rivette gaps for so many years. Surely there is pretty small demand for some of Rivette's lesser-known work (which is probably on a par with Naruse in North America in this way), but the idea that Criterion would let something on the level of Céline and Julie go to New Yorker, a company that doesn't even seem that interested in releasing and selling discs, is just strange to me.

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knives
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#82 Post by knives » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:09 pm

I imagine at least in the case of Celine and Julie it's a case where Criterion have never had the opportunity considering that New Yorker have held the rights to that film for decades. I wouldn't be surprised if Criterion was looking very closely at the Rivette's they placed at Hulu to see where they stand.

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Sam T.
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#83 Post by Sam T. » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:39 pm

If we assume that North American demand for Rivette is about what it is for Naruse (which sounds right to me) it's worth noting that, though there's no blu yet, CC have devoted to Naruse a mainline title with commentary, an Eclipse box (of silents, no less), and have put those films and about a dozen others on Hulu. Rivette still stands at, I think, one feature and one short on Hulu, and no main line or eclipse discs of any kind.

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Gregory
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#84 Post by Gregory » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:08 pm

knives wrote:I imagine at least in the case of Celine and Julie it's a case where Criterion have never had the opportunity considering that New Yorker have held the rights to that film for decades.
Ah, I thought I remembered it being up for grabs at some time in the recent past, but you're probably right, as NY put out the VHS of it.
As to the Rivette vs. Naruse comparison: I recall a time prior to the MoC and BFI sets when Naruse was just a huge void in the knowledge of even many highly dedicated cinephiles, who perhaps knew of him but had not been able to see any of his work, or at most, typically, had been able to catch one or two special screenings. The same has not been true of Rivette's work.

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zedz
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#85 Post by zedz » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:39 pm

I'm with Gregory. Rivette's French, has always been well known as a key member of the Nouvelle Vague, has worked with plenty of high-profile art house actors (Leaud, Ogier, Karina, Piccoli, Bonnaire, Birkin etc.), and has enjoyed substantial critical (Celine et Julie) and commercial (La Belle Noiseuse) hits in English-speaking territories. Has Naruse even had a single one of his films commercially released in the UK or US?

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knives
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#86 Post by knives » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:44 am

zedz wrote: Has Naruse even had a single one of his films commercially released in the UK or US?
Yes, Kimiko rather famously bombed as the first Japanese sound film released in America.

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#87 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:26 am

Naruse's "Wife, Be Like a Rose!" (renamed "Kimiko" for US consumption) did not totally "bomb" -- but it did get patronized as a quaint Oriental curiosity -- and it did not set off a race to acquire more Japanese films for US distribution (even if it had, politics would have put an end to this quite soon).

I am pretty sure that at least Mother, Women Ascending the Stairs and Late Chrysanthemums got US distribution in pre-DVD days.

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knives
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#88 Post by knives » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:20 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:Naruse's "Wife, Be Like a Rose!" (renamed "Kimiko" for US consumption) did not totally "bomb" -- but it did get patronized as a quaint Oriental curiosity -- and it did not set off a race to acquire more Japanese films for US distribution (even if it had, politics would have put an end to this quite soon).
Sorry about that. I had remembered the patronizing and thought it had caused the film to be unsuccessful.

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#89 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:04 pm

I wouldn't say the film was a "success", mind you -- because PCL was _hoping_ to get the kind of response that no Japanese films would achieve until Rashomon. I just don't know if it was a "bomb". ;-}

Shochiku had been similarly disappointed just a few years earlier with Shimazu's Ai yo jinrui to tomo ni are -- which starred one-time Hollywood star (in villain roles) Sojin. (It did not dawn on Shochiku that America was not exactly interested in a big budget silent film from Japan in 1931 -- or that Sojin had long ago passed his American heyday, which had been around 1924).

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vsski
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#90 Post by vsski » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:38 pm

For those interested there is an article I came across a while ago when I was exploring Naruse a bit further that talks about the Kimiko premiere (among other examinations of Naruse and Ford) and tries to offer some reasoning behind it's failure. Not the greatest I have ever read, but the only one I recall off hand talking about this specific event:
http://www.rouge.com.au/10/kimiko.html

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#91 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:01 pm

vsski wrote:For those interested there is an article I came across a while ago when I was exploring Naruse a bit further that talks about the Kimiko premiere (among other examinations of Naruse and Ford) and tries to offer some reasoning behind it's failure. Not the greatest I have ever read, but the only one I recall off hand talking about this specific event:
http://www.rouge.com.au/10/kimiko.html
A very interesting article (which I read ages ago). I think this may have screened in places other than New York, bu I can't find anything to back me up (at least not at the moment).

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zedz
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#92 Post by zedz » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:02 pm

This has certainly become an interestingly wayward conversation!

To satisfy my curiosity, I checked on IMDB (so take all of this with a pig of salt) which Rivette films were released in the US and UK. It looks like eleven of his features have enjoyed a commercial release in the US (Paris nous appartient, La Religieuse, Celine et Julie, L'Amour par terre, Hurlevent (no release dated noted for this, but there is a decent US box office gross recorded), Bande des quatre, La Belle Noiseuse, Divertimento, Va Savoir, Ne touchez pas la hache, 36 vues du Pic Saint-Loup), plus another five got festival screenings.

In the UK, it seems like only seven commercial releases (but IMDB's info for the UK seems generally a lot patchier - hardly any record of festival screenings, for instance). They got Secret defense and Marie et Julien, but not La Religieuse, L'Amour par terre, Hurlevent, Bande des quatre, Divertimento or 36 vues.

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#93 Post by MichaelB » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:21 am

When I get my laptop back, I'll check the Sight & Sound Digital Archive, which should have a definitive record of what opened commercially in the UK. Seven sounds too few to me.

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GaryC
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#94 Post by GaryC » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:19 am

A search of the BBFC database lists the following as having been given cinema certificates, with the proviso there may be further older entries with the director listing missing:

Paris nous appartient (certified A in 1962)
La religieuse (X in 1967)
Céline and Julie Go Boating (AA in 1976)
La belle noiseuse (15 in 1992)
La belle noiseuse (Divertimento) (PG in 1992)
Jeanne la Pucelle (PG in 1995, in two parts, shorter version of each)
Secret Defense (PG in 1998)
Va Savoir (PG in 2001)
The Story of Marie and Julien (15 in 2004)
Son't Touch the Axe (PG in 2007)

In addition, The Gang of Four Wuthering Heights, Love on the Ground and Lumière and Company had DVD releases.

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#95 Post by MichaelB » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:02 am

The BBFC database wouldn't be reliable for someone like Rivette, as it's entirely feasible that his films would have been given ultra-limited releases in cinemas with sympathetic local authorities, thus allowing the distributor to bypass BBFC fees. This was relatively common practice in the 70s and 80s, especially when the BFI had its own Regional Film Theatre circuit.

For instance, I know for certain that Le Pont du nord played theatrically in London outside festival screenings.

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#96 Post by Duncan Hopper » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:12 am

zedz wrote: In the UK, it seems like only seven commercial releases (but IMDB's info for the UK seems generally a lot patchier - hardly any record of festival screenings, for instance). They got Secret defense and Marie et Julien, but not La Religieuse, L'Amour par terre, Hurlevent, Bande des quatre, Divertimento or 36 vues.

36 vues du Pic Saint Loup is due in UK cinemas this year from New Wave, so we can add that to the list.

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#97 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:15 am

MichaelB wrote:For instance, I know for certain that Le Pont du nord played theatrically in London outside festival screenings.
I wish this were also the case for the US!

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#98 Post by hearthesilence » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:52 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:
MichaelB wrote:For instance, I know for certain that Le Pont du nord played theatrically in London outside festival screenings.
I wish this were also the case for the US!
It's starting a full week run in Brooklyn this weekend.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#99 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:43 pm

I wonder who is distributing Pont du Nord -- or is this just some special deal made witht the folks in Brooklyn?

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Re: Celine and Julie Go Boating and Paris Nous Appartient

#100 Post by FerdinandGriffon » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:30 pm

It's The Film Desk actually, the good people who also recently distributed prints (not DCPs) of We Won't Grow Old Together, The Devil, Probably, and a brace of great Rohmers.

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