Gothic

[MichaelB]

The BFI has released much of flamboyant director Ken Russell’s TV and film work on DVD AND Blu-ray and we are excited to add 1986’s GOTHIC to the catalogue. Starring Gabriel Byrne, Julian Sands, Natasha Richardson and Timothy Spall, GOTHIC tells the story of the notorious night in Switzerland when Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein.

Out on Blu-ray on 11 September 2023.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Of course I bought the Vestron blu last week. I love the BFI blus of Valentino and Women In Love so I'm really looking forward to what gets added here.

[patreig]

The BFI has released much of flamboyant director Ken Russell’s TV and film work on DVD AND Blu-ray
But we are still waiting for Dance of the Seven Veils. Why another edition of Gothic instead of Music Lovers, or Malher, or Lisztomania?

[SeizureMilk]

The BFI has released much of flamboyant director Ken Russell’s TV and film work on DVD AND Blu-ray
But we are still waiting for Dance of the Seven Veils. Why another edition of Gothic instead of Music Lovers, or Malher, or Lisztomania?

Actually, despite a lack of a Blu-Ray release, Lisztomania according to Amazon, has a British DVD listing on 9th/November/2018 by Rraw, so presumably the rights for a release might be with them so unless Warner Bros decides to allow them a copy, just get the Rraw release, though because of their relations, Liszt seems most likely. Mahler if the Criterion Channel is to be believed will most likely be released by Criterion (the opening logos and the fact the Current section of their site has an entire essay on the film), though you'll have to wait a bit for that one. Unfortunately though, unless the BFI does a redo of their BBC sets, Dance is not gonna happen. Lastly, The Music Lovers could happen considering they hold some MGM titles in their shop but considering how only 1 DVD has been released compared to the other Russell films (despite a HD transfer being available for a long time) it's not very likely. Thank you for reading.

[MichaelB]

Unfortunately though, unless the BFI does a redo of their BBC sets, Dance is not gonna happen.

That sounds emphatic. On what grounds do you suggest that there'd be no mileage in releasing it separately (or with other previously unreleased Ken Russell BBC films, of which there are still plenty), given its obvious marketability?

[SeizureMilk]

Well because the BBC sets were just that, sets, sets that consisted of Russell's most popular films from his time with Monitor, sure you could get some small mileage by releasing a previously unreleased picture, however there's not much that could be included with it considering the Composer films from that era have already been released, maybe some shorts but then those might just be supplements considering Dance is feature length. Another possibility is releasing it with other obscure Russell docs but at best, there would be rights issues and difficulties negotiating considering their obscurity. The best bet of Russell, BFI, and BBC is his shorts considering their popularity and extensive amounts of them or maybe just a Monitor shorts set in general. Thank you for reading.

[Calvin]

I think that's all fairly irrelevant; Dance of the Seven Veils has enough marketability given its history to sustain an individual release and the BFI are specialists at extras curation that goes beyond a mere director connection.

[MichaelB]

It's also inaccurate. Russell's Prokofiev: Portrait of a Soviet Composer (1961) and Béla Bartók, neither previously released, are major works by any yardstick (in fact, the Bartók film is comfortably one of my favourite Ken Russell composer films), and a triple bill of them plus Dance of the Seven Veils runs a more than acceptable 133 minutes - indeed, Béla Bartók is only five minutes shorter than Seven Veils itself. Granted, it's true that there are rights issues with both, although this has nothing to do with their "obscurity" (and I'm not sure why that would be a barrier to negotiation in any case).

[SeizureMilk]

It's also inaccurate. Russell's Prokofiev: Portrait of a Soviet Composer (1961) and Béla Bartók, neither previously released, are major works by any yardstick (in fact, the Bartók film is comfortably one of my favourite Ken Russell composer films), and a triple bill of them plus Dance of the Seven Veils runs a more than acceptable 133 minutes - indeed, Béla Bartók is only five minutes shorter than Seven Veils itself. Granted, it's true that there are rights issues with both, although this has nothing to do with their "obscurity" (and I'm not sure why that would be a barrier to negotiation in any case).

Oh right I had forgotten about those films, apologies. As for the other point about rights issues not for obscurity, I wasn't referring to just the BBC films, more like other Russell TV docs, say his folklore doc, his Bruckner, and his Arnold Bax (in more ways than one), stuff like that, which are each films that have remained very much obscure and sorely underrepresented on Home Video, so naturally I assumed it might had been rights issues because of the popularity of Ken Russell's films. Hope you understand. Thank you for reading.

[SeizureMilk]

I think that's all fairly irrelevant; Dance of the Seven Veils has enough marketability given its history to sustain an individual release and the BFI are specialists at extras curation that goes beyond a mere director connection.

Yes the market is there but I meant that given the popularity of the others (Elgar especially considering it's historical value) and that they were put into set, it would make sense for the film to be in a set, also the shorts thing was not kicking down BFI's blu-rays rather just bringing the shorts up as what would happen if it were to get an individual release. Thank you for reading.

[MichaelB]

As for the other point about rights issues not for obscurity, I wasn't referring to just the BBC films, more like other Russell TV docs, say his folklore doc, his Bruckner, and his Arnold Bax (in more ways than one), stuff like that, which are each films that have remained very much obscure and sorely underrepresented on Home Video, so naturally I assumed it might had been rights issues because of the popularity of Ken Russell's films. Hope you understand. Thank you for reading.

Well, there are rights issues, but they've got nothing to do with "obscurity", merely the fact that that those specific items were made for the South Bank Show and are therefore owned by ITV. So, besides ITV themselves, the only label that can plausibly release them is Network, as the only boutique label with an ITV licensing deal.

Anyway, you definitely won't be seeing them accompanying the BBC film Dance of the Seven Veils.

[M Sanderson]

I’ll definitely pick up the BFI version of Gothic. The Vestron release was very good in terms of picture quality already. I’m wondering if BFI are using a fresh restoration or sticking with the previous?

Would be great if Dance of the Seven Veils does end up on Blu ray one day. Russell’s most suppressed film, alongside The Devils.

[MichaelB]

Oh, much more suppressed. Between its single broadcast in February 1970 and a pirate copy covered with telltale BBC timecode popping up on YouTube many decades later, the only way of seeing it was to book an on-site research viewing at the BFI National Archive, which is a teensy bit more expensive and logistically challenging than the usual ticket/rental price. By contrast, The Devils has been more or less continuously available since 1971, at least in some form.

[Calvin]

It would be nice if the BFI took this opportunity to give Amelia and the Angel an HD bump; I think they own it lock, stock, and barrel and, although it's included as an extra on The Devils, that disc isn't getting an upgrade ever. I'm not sure what the status is with his other early shorts - I don't think Knights on Bikes, Peep Show, or Lourdes have ever been on disc.

I suppose the other titles the BFI could feasibly get their hands on would be his late, independent 'Gorsewood Films' productions, which I imagine are owned by Lisi Tribble Russell; I think The Fall of the Louse of Usher is the only one of those to pop up on DVD

[SeizureMilk]

It would be nice if the BFI took this opportunity to give Amelia and the Angel an HD bump; I think they own it lock, stock, and barrel and, although it's included as an extra on The Devils, that disc isn't getting an upgrade ever. I'm not sure what the status is with his other early shorts - I don't think Knights on Bikes, Peep Show, or Lourdes have ever been on disc.

Thinking Amelia might just be stored for that eventual, hopeful moment of The Devils on official Blu-Ray, though that’s just wishful thinking. Thank you for reading.

[MichaelB]

The BFI does indeed own Amelia outright (they paid for it in the first place), and there's no particular reason why it has to be paired with The Devils. Or, of course, why it can't be included on another disc as well as The Devils - the BFI owns it, so there's no licensing fee to worry about.

[SeizureMilk]

I know about that Mr. B, however considering that Amelia appears on The Devils disc, logically it makes the most amount of sense for it to appear on that disc if converted to Blu-Ray. As for the other discs, I feel like they would rather when choosing shorts, choose more varied ones than just the same one, especially considering as Calvin said, there’s several shorts yet to even have been released so using the same one just seems a tiny bit silly. Thank you for reading.

[M Sanderson]

Oh, much more suppressed. Between its single broadcast in February 1970 and a pirate copy covered with telltale BBC timecode popping up on YouTube many decades later, the only way of seeing it was to book an on-site research viewing at the BFI National Archive, which is a teensy bit more expensive and logistically challenging than the usual ticket/rental price. By contrast, The Devils has been more or less continuously available since 1971, at least in some form.

I figured that this suppression would be a selling point to justify a standalone release of Dance on Blu ray.

Surely it is in the works, somewhere?

Whereas, we’ll have to whistle a long time for an uncut 4k or even Blu ray of The Devils.

[M Sanderson]

It would be nice if the BFI took this opportunity to give Amelia and the Angel an HD bump; I think they own it lock, stock, and barrel and, although it's included as an extra on The Devils, that disc isn't getting an upgrade ever. I'm not sure what the status is with his other early shorts - I don't think Knights on Bikes, Peep Show, or Lourdes have ever been on disc.

I suppose the other titles the BFI could feasibly get their hands on would be his late, independent 'Gorsewood Films' productions, which I imagine are owned by Lisi Tribble Russell; I think The Fall of the Louse of Usher is the only one of those to pop up on DVD

I’m actually curious about the “home” movies (something Jess Franco did, in some form, towards the end (Paula-Paula) & would welcome such a release.

[MichaelB]

I know about that Mr. B, however considering that Amelia appears on The Devils disc, logically it makes the most amount of sense for it to appear on that disc if converted to Blu-Ray. As for the other discs, I feel like they would rather when choosing shorts, choose more varied ones than just the same one, especially considering as Calvin said, there’s several shorts yet to even have been released so using the same one just seems a tiny bit silly. Thank you for reading.

If they have a high-def master (I don’t know if this is the case yet), “it makes the most amount of sense” to include it on the next Ken Russell Blu-ray disc, which definitely won’t be The Devils. And it’s not the least bit “silly” to come up with a good excuse for a 1080p premiere of something that has only previously been seen in SD (outside ultra-rare cinema screenings).

You might as well accuse Indicator of being “silly” for including 1080p versions of Children’s Film Foundation films as supporting mini-features after the BFI had already released them on DVD (and not that long before).

[Calvin]

There'd be essentially no cost for the BFI to put the short on every Ken Russell disc they released - there's no licensing fee, so if they've already got a master then they may as well. They might choose not to do so if they thought it would impact on the sales figures of another disc but I suspect no one is buying The Devils DVD just for Amelia and the Angel. They've done it before - they've included Terence Davies' Children as an extra on Nil By Mouth, as well as having it on the Terence Davies Trilogy DVD. I'm pretty sure there's other examples as well, though none immediately come to mind at the moment.

The other shorts I mentioned would be great but I don't think they're owned by the BFI, so would require licensing fees +/- scanning/restoration.

I’m actually curious about the “home” movies (something Jess Franco did, in some form, towards the end (Paula-Paula) & would welcome such a release.

I'd be interested in seeing them for curiosity purposes too. It feels like something that Indicator might be more likely to do, following their Michael J. Murphy set, than the BFI but you never know.

[MichaelB]

Amelia and the Angel was released on DVD on two separate occasions prior to its inclusion on The Devils - once on a compilation, the other time as a freebie giveaway with (I think) The Observer newspaper.

And three Quay Brothers shorts made their HD debuts on releases other than the Quay shorts compilation, which was DVD-only when Institute Benjamenta (which included The Comb) and Alice (which included the two Alice-adjacent Stille Nacht pieces) came out on Blu-ray, although obviously when the shorts compilation was bumped up to Blu-ray a few years later they were all included in that as well. Same with some of the John Krish public information films on Captured - they'd already featured in COI and British Transport Films compilations. And, while I haven't seen the specs yet, I'd be pretty astonished if Indicator's upcoming edition of Krish's The Man Who Had Power Over Women didn't also seize the opportunity for 1080p premieres of Krish's short films, regardless of whether or not they've previously been released.

And there are quite a few other examples, as it's a good way of filling up a disc at minimal cost - and in a context that makes it very unlikely that people are going to complain.

[SeizureMilk]

Obviously I’m not denying that Amelia could appear on other discs from other directors but considering the religious vibes of Amelia, it makes the most sense for it to appear on the Russell disc for The Devils considering that it’s very much a religious film, more-so than his other British films besides Tommy which already has a wide British Blu-Ray from Odieon Entertainment. Thank you for reading.

[MichaelB]

OK, I think you're just arguing for the sake of it now, and to no particularly interesting effect. Thank you for reading.

[SeizureMilk]

Sorry got caught up in this discussion about Ken Russell. I’ll try to avoid doing this next time something similar happens. Thank you for reading.