Werner Herzog Collection
Moderator: MichaelB
- AMalickLensFlare
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:22 pm
- Location: Las Vegas
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
^Thanks
- manicsounds
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Great release slightly marred by awful packaging.
- Graham
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:50 pm
- Location: London
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Packaging is very good. What was your issue with it?
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
A bit plain, and some find the set flimsy and the disc holder system a tad difficult.
- What A Disgrace
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:34 pm
- Contact:
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Yeah, the packaging is undeniably awful. But I love the box nonetheless.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Should have been a sturdy cardboard box like MoC uses and the disc holders are diabolical.
- Drucker
- Your Future our Drucker
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Absolutely true.Finch wrote:the disc holders are diabolical.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Can someone take pix of this nefarious packaging?
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
My experience with the packaging last night: I wanted to watch the two short films from 1980, so I put in disc 5 for Huie's Sermon, and then in the dark of the viewing room tried to switch to disc 8 for God's Angry Man, but the rear (even-numbered) discs are not very easy to get out, and I had quite a struggle with it, finally turning up the lights to better see which little plastic buttons I needed to press to release the front disc and the one behind it. Now that I know how it works I don't think it'll be a problem, though.
As for God's Angry Man, wow. If anyone showed a TV preacher like this in a serious fictional film, people would surely claim it was so over the top as to be unbelievable, yet there's Gene right in front of us, filling airtime by tallying his financial contributions, and leading the incredible "FCC Monkey Band"!
Here's another clip of him, yelling, cursing and smoking a fat cigar, and insisting that all the language they're bleeping out "ain't cussing!" Good stuff.
As for God's Angry Man, wow. If anyone showed a TV preacher like this in a serious fictional film, people would surely claim it was so over the top as to be unbelievable, yet there's Gene right in front of us, filling airtime by tallying his financial contributions, and leading the incredible "FCC Monkey Band"!
Here's another clip of him, yelling, cursing and smoking a fat cigar, and insisting that all the language they're bleeping out "ain't cussing!" Good stuff.
- olmo
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:10 pm
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
If you push the tab that says push it's perfectly serviceable. The packaging is perfectly fine also; neat, smart & well designed.Finch wrote:Should have been a sturdy cardboard box like MoC uses and the disc holders are diabolical.
The design of the packaging has become much maligned on here and other forums so it's obviously a problem for more than a few. I'm genuinely mystified as to why.
- EddieLarkin
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
I have no problem with the box, but the disc holders are like this. The only other place I've found them is the BFI's Grillet box set. There's no hub to actually hold the disc in place, instead it just rests on the plastic and the clips at the side fix over the disc when it's in place. I don't understand how anyone thought it offered any benefit over normal hubs. Two of my discs were loose when it arrived.domino harvey wrote:Can someone take pix of this nefarious packaging?
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
That's the same packaging Universal likes and almost all of the multi-disc TCM Vault releases (from Universal AND Sony) use that format. It sucks but honestly I've never had any issues with it damaging the discs and I own a lot of sets with this dumb arrangement inside
- Feego
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
I hate packaging like that. TCM's Joan Crawford in the 50s set (and maybe their Capra set) came in similar packaging. I ditched the packaging and placed the discs in some double-sided Blu-ray cases I bought for just such occasions. They're not as pretty to look at, but they keep the discs much safer.
-
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:55 pm
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
I got this box today. There is no question in my mind that this project deserved better packaging than what the BFI have provided. I would have gladly given additional money to see this in packaging comparable to what MoC have consistently used in their box-sets.
I would go so far as to suggest that the BFI should produce and sell a good-quality empty packaging option (at a nominal cost) to those who bought this set. I read here that some forum members transferred discs to regular blu ray cases. This is deplorable for a project of this importance.
I must state here that the actual discs are magnificently produced. All the more reason to regret the substandard packaging.
I would go so far as to suggest that the BFI should produce and sell a good-quality empty packaging option (at a nominal cost) to those who bought this set. I read here that some forum members transferred discs to regular blu ray cases. This is deplorable for a project of this importance.
I must state here that the actual discs are magnificently produced. All the more reason to regret the substandard packaging.
- chatterjees
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:08 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Contact:
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
I received mine today without any severe casualty, but the box is surely an example of lousy packaging. They could have made the outer case a little sturdier. This was my first box set import and after receiving it I think I am OK with the shipping and handing, but not with BFI's box designer. I hope Arrow puts at least one layer of bubble wraps in their package for the Boro set. Those packaging pics (recently posted by Arrow) are enough for me to go sleepless until I hold that baby in my hand. I should stop complaining now and fix my schedule for some Herzog fest.
- olmo
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:10 pm
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Surely the packaging is a lot more robust than you make out, if for example, it endured a transatlantic journey unscathed?chatterjees wrote:I received mine today without any severe casualty, but the box is surely an example of lousy packaging. They could have made the outer case a little sturdier. This was my first box set import and after receiving it I think I am OK with the shipping and handing, but not with BFI's box designer. I hope Arrow puts at least one layer of bubble wraps in their package for the Boro set. Those packaging pics (recently posted by Arrow) are enough for me to go sleepless until I hold that baby in my hand. I should stop complaining now and fix my schedule for some Herzog fest.
- Rsdio
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 11:42 am
- Location: UK
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
That might have been more down to luck than good management, I'm in the UK so mine didn't have far to go but it's taken a few knocks. The outer sleeve is pretty thin.
It looks a superb set though, packaging complaints aside.
It looks a superb set though, packaging complaints aside.
-
- Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:01 am
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
It really is annoying that the outer case is flimsy as hell. My first Herzog set arrived with five dented corners; the replacement has four of them. I wonder what Amazon and other retailers think of this. They must have shipped loads of replacements.
- Adam X
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:04 am
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
If Amazon actually cared about that sort of thing, they'd improve their packing methods, but that's never going to happen.
I lucked out and received mine with nary a scratch, but as Rsdio proposed, it really is down to luck. If you order with them, or any similar etailer, you just have to accept the chance of minor damage to anything you buy in exchange for relatively low shipping fees and item cost.
At least with Amazon, they're very willing to replace anything lost or damaged en route. Though personally I prefer to buy elsewhere when feasible.
All that aside, I'm really looking forward to digging into what looks to be a truly excellent collection of films, many of which I've not yet seen. Some labels have been completely spoiling us this year, and it doesn't appear set to change anytime soon.
I lucked out and received mine with nary a scratch, but as Rsdio proposed, it really is down to luck. If you order with them, or any similar etailer, you just have to accept the chance of minor damage to anything you buy in exchange for relatively low shipping fees and item cost.
At least with Amazon, they're very willing to replace anything lost or damaged en route. Though personally I prefer to buy elsewhere when feasible.
All that aside, I'm really looking forward to digging into what looks to be a truly excellent collection of films, many of which I've not yet seen. Some labels have been completely spoiling us this year, and it doesn't appear set to change anytime soon.
-
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:50 am
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
The transfers and extras are all top notch. BFI have done a great job here. There is a lot of sweet, beautiful, untempered film grain in this set. I didn't think I'd sell off my DVDs but there is no point in having them now really.
Though I'm not surprised at all the comments on the packaging. After going through the set for a few weeks and taking it on and off the shelf to get the discs out, it looks like I've had it for years already. I don't even know how it got so beat up. The paper that the box and digipack are made of is just too thin for such weight and use. Its a minor issue but still worth talking about, as the actual content itself is excellent. This is one of the years best releases.
Though I'm not surprised at all the comments on the packaging. After going through the set for a few weeks and taking it on and off the shelf to get the discs out, it looks like I've had it for years already. I don't even know how it got so beat up. The paper that the box and digipack are made of is just too thin for such weight and use. Its a minor issue but still worth talking about, as the actual content itself is excellent. This is one of the years best releases.
-
- Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:33 am
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Absolutely agree. I was watching Fitzcaraldo last night, marveling at the images. I've watched most of the features now, and I'm impressed with the transfers for every one.kristophers wrote:The transfers and extras are all top notch. BFI have done a great job here. There is a lot of sweet, beautiful, untempered film grain in this set. I didn't think I'd sell off my DVDs but there is no point in having them now really.
Though I'm not surprised at all the comments on the packaging. After going through the set for a few weeks and taking it on and off the shelf to get the discs out, it looks like I've had it for years already. I don't even know how it got so beat up. The paper that the box and digipack are made of is just too thin for such weight and use. Its a minor issue but still worth talking about, as the actual content itself is excellent. This is one of the years best releases.
Re: the packaging. As soon as I got the set, I realized it was impractical to keep pulling the discs out of the box each time. I immediately put all the discs in paper sleeves, and placed the box on the shelf where I intend taking it down no more than once a year. Unhappily, the disc labels don't have a complete list of the titles on each disc, but I can live with that.
One thing, though. My set arrived without the plastic shrink wrap around the outside. The How To video clearly shows that the shrink wrap is supposed to be part of the packaging. Does anyone have any experience applying to Bfi for missing or defective shrink wrap?
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
An invaluable set. The transfers look as good as I'd hoped they would, but I also love the functionality here. On several films, you can choose between English and German versions (which dictates the language of the titles and the default spoken language) but then you can still change the audio and subtitles to another language on the fly, to see more easily which version might work the best for you. (Nosferatu is an exception to this, since the two versions are literally two different cuts.) And then there are a number of audio commentaries as well. I've gone through all of these films now on the set, occasionally sampling the different options, but there's still a wealth of material here that I haven't yet explored.
As for the films, no two people are going to agree as to what constitutes "essential" Herzog, but I can't quibble much with the selections here (and, on balance, I prefer this selection to Shout's). We get all the Kinski and Bruno S. collaborations and a number of other key films, all of which are worthwhile in some respect. Aguirre should need no introduction, and the films chosen to supplement it seem like a good thematic fit to it. Unprecedented Defense was only his third short film, and it perhaps feels like the early work of a director coming into his own, but Herzog's stamp is easily identifiable here, showing perhaps how a few Aguirre-type characters might have played grown-up with each other during their teenage years. Last Words is an early absurdist short that toys with how language can be twisted into meaninglessness, and in something of a coup, has perhaps the most reference quality transfer of the whole set. Precautions Against Fanatics takes Aguirre's territorial concerns to the racetrack, and then plays them as slapstick. And then there's Fata Morgana, which traffics heavily in mirage-distorted images that at times only speckle the horizon. I had seen this before on DVD, but seeing it on Blu-ray on a large home theater screen was a completely different experience.
The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser (more literally/awesomely titled Every Man for Himself and God Against All) is possibly Herzog's best film, for reasons that are hopefully already widely known. Land of Silence and Darkness is a good inclusion on this disc, as it seems to somewhat echo Bruno S.'s own early life (despite his not being deaf and blind). It's a bit of a tough watch at times, but also features some arresting images of its subjects lost in their own worlds. How Much Wood Would a Woodchuck Chuck might have made more sense on the Stroszek disc, but in any event, it's sort of hypnotic and mind-numbing to hear so much language spouted so quickly and yet meaning so little.
Stroszek and Heart of Glass share a disc, and while they don't have much in common, I will say that they both might have the most satisfying and yet completely out-there endings of any of Herzog's films. Heart of Glass (partly filmed with the cast and crew under hypnosis!) might also be Herzog's most visually sumptuous film, though Nosferatu on the next disc gives it a run for its money. Both this and Murnau's version take place in a world where no one has ever heard of vampires before, and where you don't flinch when the pale, lanky guy with icepicks for teeth lunges to suck the blood from your fresh cut, nor when he slowly creeps toward your bed in the middle of the night in a stereotypical monster pose. But if you can suspend disbelief in this regard, Herzog has some marvelous compositions for you here. This is also the Kinski film where he most loses himself in his role.
Next we have Woyzeck, which has always felt like more of a sketch of a film than a full-fledged one to me. I'm also very curious how it might have turned out if Bruno S. had been cast in the lead role. Rounding out this disc are a grab bag of mid-length documentaries that needed to go somewhere and this disc evidently had the most room for them. Handicapped Future is a touching film that focuses on children with malformed limbs. (Apparently thousands of children were born this way in Germany in the '50s, as the tragic by-product of a drug commonly taken to reduce nausea during pregnancy.) The Great Ecstasy of Woodcarver Steiner is a personal favorite, illustrating how even sports can be made tolerable to watch when properly shot and scored. (Popol Vuh's music is really an integral part of so many of these films.) Huie's Sermon is mostly a straight filmed performance of a sermon by the preacher that inspired James Brown's character in The Blues Brothers. A few minutes in, I was wondering what Herzog found so exceptional in this subject to make him be worth filming, and then the rest of the film happened. I do also really like the quote displayed at the end (Herzog was something of a master of doing this), which is a better variation of this sentiment.
Based on Fitzcarraldo's performance in the lists projects, I gather that it's the forum's consensus favorite Herzog, which I must confess I find a little perplexing. It's not a bad film, and I do love the imagery of the boat slowly moving up a jungle slope, but even this pales in comparison for me to the boat trapped in a tree in Aguirre. I also think it's considerably more plausible that Kinski is actually a vampire than that he could ever be an Irishman. Burden of Dreams (directed by Les Blank) covers the most interesting part of Fitzcarraldo (its production), though far less of the difficulties there had to do with Herzog and Kinski wanting to murder each other than you might expect. I do wish there had been more coverage of the original version of the film that would have starred Jason Robards and Mick Jagger, which apparently got two-thirds of the way through filming but only gets a brief mention here. I'm very glad that Blank's Werner Herzog Eats His Shoe is included here as well. Much more than its title would suggest, it provides an opportunity for Herzog to air his views on the creative process, art vs. commerce, boldness in filmmaking, authenticity, the depleted world resource of meaningful film images, and of course, the texture and palatability of shoe leather.
I believe that Cobra Verde is generally considered an uneven curio, but I find it to be a fine conclusion to the Herzog/Kinski collaborations. There are some really nice hypnotic moments here (like the woman "surrendering her life" through a slow, sultry dance) that seem to set the film in the world of dreams, and Kinski has some great one-liners as well. Finally, God's Angry Man is another documentary about a preacher of sorts, though this one seems more concerned with governmental conspiracy theories and the business end of things than with sharing the good word. (He saves this for his backup band.) He's actually not all that angry most of the time, though there is a pretty tense sequence where he berates viewers of his TV broadcast for not donating enough to his ministry right then and there (neglecting the fact that his viewers might have been short on funds from over-donating in an earlier scene!). Unfortunately for English speakers, much of the film's dialogue is dubbed over in German and then subtitled in English, though that's how Herzog made the film, so it's no slight against the BFI.
That about covers the films, which is really the main reason that this set exists--to cram high quality versions of as many films as possible onto eight discs. There aren't as many contextual extras here as on, say, the Borowczyk set, but I suppose there's less of a need for them here. (If anything, I would have been fine losing what on-disc extras there are if it meant they could have fit in another Herzog film or two.) The only real complaint, as has already been mentioned to death, is the packaging, which doesn't exactly scream "loving care." Yes, it's flimsy, and extracting the discs feels a bit like playing Operation. Also, somewhat oddly, of the six digipak panels set aside for film stills, one of them is devoted to Woodchuck of all films, and three others to Stroszek (none of which feature a bunny rabbit driving a fire truck). I feel like a lot of people may have gotten this set and only really taken in this unfortunate aspect of it. Rest assured, it's more than made up for with the care put into the discs themselves. Here's hoping for more of them!
As for the films, no two people are going to agree as to what constitutes "essential" Herzog, but I can't quibble much with the selections here (and, on balance, I prefer this selection to Shout's). We get all the Kinski and Bruno S. collaborations and a number of other key films, all of which are worthwhile in some respect. Aguirre should need no introduction, and the films chosen to supplement it seem like a good thematic fit to it. Unprecedented Defense was only his third short film, and it perhaps feels like the early work of a director coming into his own, but Herzog's stamp is easily identifiable here, showing perhaps how a few Aguirre-type characters might have played grown-up with each other during their teenage years. Last Words is an early absurdist short that toys with how language can be twisted into meaninglessness, and in something of a coup, has perhaps the most reference quality transfer of the whole set. Precautions Against Fanatics takes Aguirre's territorial concerns to the racetrack, and then plays them as slapstick. And then there's Fata Morgana, which traffics heavily in mirage-distorted images that at times only speckle the horizon. I had seen this before on DVD, but seeing it on Blu-ray on a large home theater screen was a completely different experience.
The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser (more literally/awesomely titled Every Man for Himself and God Against All) is possibly Herzog's best film, for reasons that are hopefully already widely known. Land of Silence and Darkness is a good inclusion on this disc, as it seems to somewhat echo Bruno S.'s own early life (despite his not being deaf and blind). It's a bit of a tough watch at times, but also features some arresting images of its subjects lost in their own worlds. How Much Wood Would a Woodchuck Chuck might have made more sense on the Stroszek disc, but in any event, it's sort of hypnotic and mind-numbing to hear so much language spouted so quickly and yet meaning so little.
Stroszek and Heart of Glass share a disc, and while they don't have much in common, I will say that they both might have the most satisfying and yet completely out-there endings of any of Herzog's films. Heart of Glass (partly filmed with the cast and crew under hypnosis!) might also be Herzog's most visually sumptuous film, though Nosferatu on the next disc gives it a run for its money. Both this and Murnau's version take place in a world where no one has ever heard of vampires before, and where you don't flinch when the pale, lanky guy with icepicks for teeth lunges to suck the blood from your fresh cut, nor when he slowly creeps toward your bed in the middle of the night in a stereotypical monster pose. But if you can suspend disbelief in this regard, Herzog has some marvelous compositions for you here. This is also the Kinski film where he most loses himself in his role.
Next we have Woyzeck, which has always felt like more of a sketch of a film than a full-fledged one to me. I'm also very curious how it might have turned out if Bruno S. had been cast in the lead role. Rounding out this disc are a grab bag of mid-length documentaries that needed to go somewhere and this disc evidently had the most room for them. Handicapped Future is a touching film that focuses on children with malformed limbs. (Apparently thousands of children were born this way in Germany in the '50s, as the tragic by-product of a drug commonly taken to reduce nausea during pregnancy.) The Great Ecstasy of Woodcarver Steiner is a personal favorite, illustrating how even sports can be made tolerable to watch when properly shot and scored. (Popol Vuh's music is really an integral part of so many of these films.) Huie's Sermon is mostly a straight filmed performance of a sermon by the preacher that inspired James Brown's character in The Blues Brothers. A few minutes in, I was wondering what Herzog found so exceptional in this subject to make him be worth filming, and then the rest of the film happened. I do also really like the quote displayed at the end (Herzog was something of a master of doing this), which is a better variation of this sentiment.
Based on Fitzcarraldo's performance in the lists projects, I gather that it's the forum's consensus favorite Herzog, which I must confess I find a little perplexing. It's not a bad film, and I do love the imagery of the boat slowly moving up a jungle slope, but even this pales in comparison for me to the boat trapped in a tree in Aguirre. I also think it's considerably more plausible that Kinski is actually a vampire than that he could ever be an Irishman. Burden of Dreams (directed by Les Blank) covers the most interesting part of Fitzcarraldo (its production), though far less of the difficulties there had to do with Herzog and Kinski wanting to murder each other than you might expect. I do wish there had been more coverage of the original version of the film that would have starred Jason Robards and Mick Jagger, which apparently got two-thirds of the way through filming but only gets a brief mention here. I'm very glad that Blank's Werner Herzog Eats His Shoe is included here as well. Much more than its title would suggest, it provides an opportunity for Herzog to air his views on the creative process, art vs. commerce, boldness in filmmaking, authenticity, the depleted world resource of meaningful film images, and of course, the texture and palatability of shoe leather.
I believe that Cobra Verde is generally considered an uneven curio, but I find it to be a fine conclusion to the Herzog/Kinski collaborations. There are some really nice hypnotic moments here (like the woman "surrendering her life" through a slow, sultry dance) that seem to set the film in the world of dreams, and Kinski has some great one-liners as well. Finally, God's Angry Man is another documentary about a preacher of sorts, though this one seems more concerned with governmental conspiracy theories and the business end of things than with sharing the good word. (He saves this for his backup band.) He's actually not all that angry most of the time, though there is a pretty tense sequence where he berates viewers of his TV broadcast for not donating enough to his ministry right then and there (neglecting the fact that his viewers might have been short on funds from over-donating in an earlier scene!). Unfortunately for English speakers, much of the film's dialogue is dubbed over in German and then subtitled in English, though that's how Herzog made the film, so it's no slight against the BFI.
That about covers the films, which is really the main reason that this set exists--to cram high quality versions of as many films as possible onto eight discs. There aren't as many contextual extras here as on, say, the Borowczyk set, but I suppose there's less of a need for them here. (If anything, I would have been fine losing what on-disc extras there are if it meant they could have fit in another Herzog film or two.) The only real complaint, as has already been mentioned to death, is the packaging, which doesn't exactly scream "loving care." Yes, it's flimsy, and extracting the discs feels a bit like playing Operation. Also, somewhat oddly, of the six digipak panels set aside for film stills, one of them is devoted to Woodchuck of all films, and three others to Stroszek (none of which feature a bunny rabbit driving a fire truck). I feel like a lot of people may have gotten this set and only really taken in this unfortunate aspect of it. Rest assured, it's more than made up for with the care put into the discs themselves. Here's hoping for more of them!
- Forrest Taft
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:34 pm
- Location: Stavanger, Norway
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
Great post, thanks! I had planned working my way through the films chronologically, but you've convinced me to do it disc by disc. The new Herzog book arrived today, so I'm ready to dig in as soon as I finish the Boro-set:-)
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: Werner Herzog Collection
That's a fine way to tackle the set (and the discs are mostly organized chronologically anyway), though thematically, I might suggest redistributing the extra films on Woyzeck--watch Handicapped Future along with Land of Silence and Darkness, Woodcarver Steiner along with Aguirre, and Huie's Sermon along with God's Angry Man. And you should watch Woodchuck before Stroszek, but you were probably going to do that anyway.