The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome

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MichaelB
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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#26 Post by MichaelB » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:46 am

knives wrote:If it does come to have no future would the implication toward the BBFC by the end of banning and maybe even reformation of the R18?
The R18 is actually a very useful classification, as it establishes a pretty clear distinction between softcore and hardcore pornography (I know films have been passed at 18 with unambiguous hardcore sequences, but they're not primarily pornographic films), which means that interfering busybodies can't then complain that they weren't warned upfront about the likely content. The warning couldn't be clearer.

The problem has always been with the way it's been implemented, whereby R18 films can only be sold over the counter in licensed premises. As I said in this very thread, unless you actually own the licensed premises in question or have a very strong business interest in them, this makes it essentially impossible to make money off R18 titles - which is why, although several people had wide-eyed plans to get into that market (as Duncan says above, there's one hell of a lot of titles up for grabs), they quickly backed out when they realised the challenges.

So even a change as seemingly minimal as allowing R18 titles to be sent via mail order would potentially make a huge difference, as it would cut out the sex-shop middlemen and allow distributors to deal directly with their customers. And it would therefore mean that the more adventurous independent labels could add R18 titles to their own catalogues - something of clear artistic/historical/cultural merit like Thundercrack! or The Good Old Naughty Days or even the hardcore Radley Metzger titles could fit right in to several labels' line-ups.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#27 Post by colinr0380 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:32 pm

MichaelB wrote:This seems by far the best place to highlight a recent court case whose outcome has far-reaching implications for the future of the Obscene Publications Act, or indeed whether it has one at all.
I'm waiting for the inevitable comment that somebody wet themselves in excitement on this news, and then immediately got arrested!
Last edited by colinr0380 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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knives
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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#28 Post by knives » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:26 pm

MichaelB wrote: The problem has always been with the way it's been implemented, whereby R18 films can only be sold over the counter in licensed premises. As I said in this very thread, unless you actually own the licensed premises in question or have a very strong business interest in them, this makes it essentially impossible to make money off R18 titles - which is why, although several people had wide-eyed plans to get into that market (as Duncan says above, there's one hell of a lot of titles up for grabs), they quickly backed out when they realised the challenges.
That's exactly what I was curious about. I think to a degree that's even more off than the whole banning thing. Deliberately developing an underground market seems rather silly to me.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#29 Post by antnield » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:26 am

New artwork:

Image

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MichaelB
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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#30 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:27 am

I like the grainy Super 8 effect on the title.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#31 Post by McCrutchy » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:48 am

The BFI's description is somewhat intriguing, but I have to say, this is not to my orientation, if you get my meaning. Would I still find it something worth getting if I have some interest in classic erotica?

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#32 Post by MichaelB » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:00 am

McCrutchy wrote:The BFI's description is somewhat intriguing, but I have to say, this is not to my orientation, if you get my meaning. Would I still find it something worth getting if I have some interest in classic erotica?
I've spoken to someone involved with this release, and he reckons that you'd probably be better off getting the parallel Encounters release as a stepping stone - there's a wider range of material, the transfers apparently look stunning (Andy Milligan's Vapors has had extensive digital restoration), and one of the shorts is by Peter de Rome, so it offers a taster of his work without requiring a full-on commitment.

He also adds "The main thing to say about the de Rome set is that it contains some quite strong material, so don't buy if that's going to offend*. For those with an open mind and a liberal perspective, it's worth the price of admission for the new 43 min David McGillivray-produced/Jonny Trunk-scored doc alone..."

(*though from what you've been saying, I'm guessing that's unlikely to be an issue!)

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#33 Post by McCrutchy » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:54 pm

No it certainly won't offend me in terms of explicitness, it's just that, being straight, I have never really seen any man-on-man explicit sex before. I'm sure I wouldn't mind if it was only part of a plot, but, to quote the R18, if it "contains strong images...intended for sexual stimulation" then I'd be barking up the wrong tree, as they say.

Can anyone compare these to other erotic films in terms of explicitness? Are there hardcore images or is it mainly softcore like most 18s?

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#34 Post by MichaelB » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:03 pm

I haven't seen them myself, I'm afraid - Thundercrack! is pretty much my only exposure to unsimulated hardcore man-on-man action. And the BBFC classification advice is disappointingly vague, only referring to "strong nudity and real sex" - though it also provides a handy list of titles.

One interesting development is that it seems that the package has got a fair bit longer (fnarr) than was originally mooted in 2010 - the original certificate covered 105m38s of material, but it's now expanded to 193m23s.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#35 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:30 pm

Never let it be said that being a member of this forum doesn't send you to some interesting places!

Here's a web page from the Gay Erotic Video Index site giving quite detailed descriptions of the films this will probably contain. However that page, corroborated by this page, suggests that the combined running time of all eight films collectively known as "The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome" is only 95 minutes. So if the expanded running time MichaelB notes is correct, does that mean that some of the director's other films will be included as described on this page? (I guess that last link can definitely be described as NSFW!)

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#36 Post by MichaelB » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:36 pm

Interestingly, the last two films mentioned on the page that Colin linked to, with "(Note: I have the following 2 listed, but have no information on them, or whether they were ever actually released commercially)" attached, are both on the various BFI releases - Fire Island Kids on this one, and Encounters on the compilation of that title. The BBFC also lists other films that aren't mentioned on that page.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#37 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:42 pm

The BFI Filmstore page has a bit more information on these other films, and here is a page on Abracadaver!

Michael, is this the same David McGillivray who wrote horror films for Norman Warren and Pete Walker, and also wrote that highly amusing book (later turned into a one hour programme shown in the BBC's Forbidden Weekend back in 1995), Doing Rude Things: The History of the British Sex Film?

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#38 Post by MichaelB » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:20 pm

colinr0380 wrote:Michael, is this the same David McGillivray who wrote horror films for Norman Warren and Pete Walker, and also wrote that highly amusing book (later turned into a one hour programme shown in the BBC's Forbidden Weekend back in 1995), Doing Rude Things: The History of the British Sex Film?
I know there are three David Thom(p)sons with interests in the film industry (the Biographical Dictionary of Film author, the BBC Films producer, and the veteran director of numerous film-oriented arts documentaries), but this is the first I've heard of more than one David McGillivray - so I think it's a very safe bet that it's the same one.

He was also deputy editor of the Monthly Film Bulletin in the 1970s, which is where his encyclopaedic knowledge of softcore porn and trash cinema comes from - he often had the thankless task of covering films that no-one else wanted to sit through.

UPDATE: It definitely is the same David McGillivray!
Last edited by MichaelB on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#39 Post by R0lf » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:02 am

Will this be in bluray?

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#40 Post by MichaelB » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:11 am

No. Since the films were shot on Super 8, I imagine the BFI thought that a Blu-ray would be fairly pointless.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#41 Post by MichaelB » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:01 am

Full specs announced:
The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome

In the late 1960s and early 1970s British-born New Yorker and unsung hero of gay underground filmmaking Peter de Rome produced a number of explicit, painstakingly crafted Super 8 films each of which took the viewer on an immersive sexual journey. In 1973, eight of these films were brought together as The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome producing one of the finest cinematic examples of the intersection of artistry and eroticism, in the tradition of Andy Warhol and Kenneth Anger. Now released on DVD for the first time, these extraordinary films are accompanied by a new BFI documentary, additional short films and a comprehensive booklet with new essays and film credits.

Peter de Rome started shooting 8mm films in 1965 for his own amusement, putting on screenings primarily for friends. When pioneering producer Jack Deveau saw one of them, he persuaded de Rome to collect eight together, blow them up to 16mm, and release them commercially as The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome.

The films in the collection – Double Exposure (1969), Hot Pants (1971), The Second Coming (1970), Daydreams from a Crosstown Bus (1972), Mumbo Jumbo (1972), Green Thoughts (1970/71), Underground (1972), and Prometheus (1972) – take the viewer on a kaleidoscopic sexual expedition designed to do more than titillate. By turns humorous and sardonic, romantic and sadistic, the films push the boundaries as de Rome creates surreal and imaginative scenarios in a range of exotic and everyday locations.

Peter de Rome is now in his 80s and divides his time between Manhattan and Kent.

Special features
• Fully uncut and uncensored presentations of all films
Fragments: the Incomplete Films of Peter de Rome (Ethan Reid, 2011, 43 mins): revealing new documentary in which de Rome discusses his career and unfinished films;
• Scopo (Peter de Rome, 1966, 6 mins): when a young man arrives at an empty apartment, he is unaware that a stranger is watching him;
• The Fire Island Kids (Peter de Rome, 1970, 14 mins): two men spend a lazy day in each other’s company after one rescues the other from drowning;
Moulage (Peter de Rome, 1971, 13 mins): short film about erotic body casting;
Brown Study (Peter de Rome, 1979, 9 mins): an ethnographic study with a difference;
Abracadaver! (Nathan Schiff, 2008, 10 mins): a gruesome tale of magic and mutilation from producer David McGillivray, starring Peter de Rome;
• New scores for The Fire Island Kids and Brown Study by Stephen Thrower (Cyclobe), and Scopo by Steve Moore (Zombi);
• 44-page illustrated booklet with new essays, film credits and diary extracts.

Release date 26 March 2012
RRP: £19.99 / cat. no. BFIVD876 / Cert 18
USA / 1969-1972 / colour / English language / 90 mins / Original aspect ratio 1.33:1 / DVD9

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#42 Post by MichaelB » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:22 pm

A screening at the BFI earlier this week has produced a five-star Amazon review - which might give a better idea of what the films are like to watch.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#43 Post by GaryC » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:48 am

From the BBFC's 2010 Annual Report, why this is an 18 instead of an R18:
The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome is a collection of eight short films that date from the early 1970s, some of which feature strong scenes of real sex. The work as a whole has artistic, cultural and historical merit and, in tone and treatment, is distinguishable from a sex work.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#44 Post by Duncan Hopper » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:59 pm

MichaelB wrote:A screening at the BFI earlier this week has produced a five-star Amazon review - which might give a better idea of what the films are like to watch.
Was this some kind of press screening at Stephen Street?

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#45 Post by MichaelB » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:00 pm

I was invited, so I'm guessing yes.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#46 Post by MichaelB » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:49 am

Mondo Digital:
Too strange and artsy to be considered porn loops but too graphic for the mainstream arthouse crowd at the time, they certainly play better now for a public more accustomed to the likes of 9 Songs and Shortbus. Surely the most extreme release ever passed with an 18 certificate by the BBFC, it's definitely not for the prudish but remains a vital record of outer fringes '70s filmmaking.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#47 Post by MichaelB » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:42 am

My own copy arrived this morning, and I can confirm first-hand that the transfers are about as good as I've ever seen from Super 8 sources. In fact, they look a fair bit better than Mr Bongo's Chung Kuo China, which came from 16mm.

That said, it's now completely obvious why a Blu-ray would have been a waste of resources. I daresay it might be possible to squeeze a slight improvement out of the original materials, but probably nowhere near enough to justify what I imagine would be considerable extra expense (given that they'd have to go back to the Super 8 originals in addition to increased mastering and duplication costs).

Oh, and yes, at times this is seriously hardcore stuff - I doubt the BBFC would even have passed it at R18 in the 1990s (though it's precisely the kind of artistic-merit test case that James Ferman was fond of engineering), and it might well have been the subject of police raids not that much earlier. Which just goes to show how much things have changed even in my adult lifetime.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#48 Post by Duncan Hopper » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:11 am

Worth noting that Fragments: The Incomplete Films of Peter de Rome is screening at the London Lesbian and Gay Film Festival:
A fascinating look at the life and work of legendary gay porn pioneer Peter de Rome.

Legendary gay porn pioneer Peter de Rome is revealed in a new film coinciding with the BFI DVD release of The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome. Using a super 8 camera in the 1960s in New York he developed his own style of playful erotica inspired by classic Hollywood and the artful surrealism of Cocteau. The film explores some of the unfinished works which have never before been seen by an audience.
Screening with selected shorts from the BFI DVD.

And after...

LLGFF and Little Joe Present: The Erotic World of Peter de Rome

Visual pleasures abound in this special event celebrating a pioneer.

Visual pleasures abound in this special event presented in association with Little Joe magazine, to mark the release of a special BFI DVD of The Erotic Films of Peter de Rome. Following the screening of Fragments: The Incomplete Films of Peter de Rome, join Festival delegates, audience members and Peter de Rome himself in the Blue Room for a three screen projection of his most famous works, plus unseen films from his own collection, accompanied by a live DJ set. New high definition transfers from the original super 8s will reveal these great works of early gay cinema as never before. Since our last revelatory de Rome screening at the LLGFF 2007 we have dreamed of bringing his films to a wider audience. We are delighted to be celebrating the DVD release of these key works with this unique event; a celebration of a pioneer.

This event contains sexually explicit material. Over 18s only.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#49 Post by MichaelB » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:20 am

The documentary is absolutely superb - I can easily see why they're screening it separately. And Peter de Rome is an utter delight, cheerfully undermining the BFI's (understandable) desire to rebrand his work as serious arthouse fare with the opening "Hello, I'm Peter de Rome and I've spent the last fifty years making gay porn movies". He's now in his late eighties, and sounds the way Alan Bennett might sound if he got rid of his Yorkshire accent.

And to belatedly answer McCrutchy's question several weeks ago: yes, there's more than enough fascinating historical/cultural/sociological material here even if you're not the right sexual orientation. From a purely aesthetic perspective, I can readily appreciate why they've been disinterred and championed - and indeed why the BBFC felt they could get away with a plain vanilla 18 certificate.

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Re: The Erotic Films of Peter De Rome

#50 Post by MichaelB » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:04 pm

Strange Things Are Happening:
In their justification for passing this film with an 18 certificate, the BBFC stated that the film is,”in tone and treatment, is distinguishable from a sex work”. It’s a frankly ridiculous claim, and perhaps shows up the nonsensical situation that the British censors have dug themselves into with their facile distinction between ‘sex works’ (erotic films they disapprove of) and ‘non-sex works’ (erotic films they do approve of). Because, as Peter de Rome himself cheerfully admits in the excellent documentary included here, his films are porn, made with the express intention of being masturbatory material – the very definition the BBFC use to declare a film to be a ‘sex work’ and so banished to the sex-shop-only R18 category if it contains real, explicit sex – which this does, extensively. The Board also claim that the film has “artistic, cultural and historical merit”, which is true – but moreso than, say The Opening of Misty Beethoven, passed R18 several years ago? I don’t think so.

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