Raúl Ruiz

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Perkins Cobb
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: Raul Ruiz

#101 Post by Perkins Cobb » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:08 pm

This year MoMA's annual To Save and Project series will include Ruiz's debut feature, Tres tristes tigres, over which I'm already salivating.

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knives
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#102 Post by knives » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:41 am

Finally saw this, theatrically even, though I'm sleep deprived as a result so I'll keep this short. Probably won't be able to make it coherent though. I've seen many films and read many books like this film, but none as it. This is such a unique brand of fish that even when it shows off all it's cards at the hour mark it only makes one hunger for more. I have never in my life seen a work that so fits the saying of the journey being more important than the destination. This is story telling about story telling shown through story telling. If that sounds weaving and overly intellectual don't worry. Even though this film is as complex as narrative comes it's wrapped in a very basic bildungsroman. It uses this form though to make a true epic, the history of an entire people only matched by Russian Ark in cinema.

Again though before I start making this film sound unappetizing the greatest benefit to all of this is it's sense of fun. I doubt anyone would be able to see the first dual scene and not laugh. Hell Ruiz even manages to make things that should be creepy hilarious. The down and out comedy scenes appear only rarely, but that essence pervades even the most serious moments. To that extent I think the film somehow could have gone years longer. Just the character of Knife Eater alone has enough tales that only get hinted at that could fill at least a dozen features. I said it covers the history of an entire people, but I should have said Europe (at least in the west). With dozens of speaking parts all of them get their own story that under normal circumstances would fill their own film. Just going off of my sleep deprived memory you could have seven normal movies. I just need to talk with someone else about the film to get all of my thoughts in order. Very quickly Ruiz is becoming a favorite of mine.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: Raul Ruiz

#103 Post by zedz » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:10 pm

That duel scene (I take it you mean the one by the carriage) is indeed a great shot, and it's even more satisfying if you've seen That Day (for fans of that film, it's sort of a redux of the fabulous fight-in-the-corridor sequence).

My favourite sequence in the film, and maybe of any film I've seen this year, is the one where the two lovers are wondering how on earth their affair might have been discovered when they've been so discreet. Hilarious and smart visual storytelling there, but also a series of shots that illustrate one of the work's most interesting secret themes.

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knives
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#104 Post by knives » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:22 pm

I didn't even make that connection. I need to rerent that one or rather to save time just buy it. I agree on that lovers shot. It had the very small crowd I sat in with crackle with laughter. It's really fascinating how he uses theatrical techniques like that and other ones to make the film especially in respect to time more experimental rather than the typical ways that those techniques are applied. It reminded me of Gondry ever so slightly. I really wish more of his films were available just to see how he evolved.

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domino harvey
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#105 Post by domino harvey » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:16 am

Music Box is putting out a three disc Blu-ray of Mysteries of Lisbon in the US on December 20

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Murdoch
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#106 Post by Murdoch » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:54 am

I'm now very glad I held off on importing, thanks for the news!

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swo17
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#107 Post by swo17 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:21 am

Does it seem logistically possible that this could include the TV cut in HD?

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knives
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#108 Post by knives » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:57 pm

Assuming there are no other extras. Actually the teevee cut being split in half over two discs and the theatrical cut having it's own disc could leave some room for some small extras on the teevee cut discs.

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swo17
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#109 Post by swo17 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:47 pm

Can you fit 5 1/2 hours comfortably on one disc though? Didn't the Portuguese release split the theatrical cut over two BDs?

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knives
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#110 Post by knives » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:04 pm

The theatrical cut isn't 5 1/2 hours though. it's 272 minutes or about 4 1/2.

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swo17
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#111 Post by swo17 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:24 pm

Whoops :oops: (Think I was comparing to Carlos, which is 5 1/2, and got the two mixed up.) Still though, isn't that pushing it a bit? Carlos is split over two discs on the Criterion and reviews have said they should have maybe spread that one out even further.

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Kirkinson
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#112 Post by Kirkinson » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:07 pm

272 minutes on a 50G Blu-ray would restrict you to an average bit rate of around 25 Mbps, which would probably yield a respectable but perhaps not spectacular transfer, depending on the film. Going by DVDBeaver, most Criterion Blu-rays seem to have an average rate of at least 30 Mbps, though there are some exceptions (Orpheus is around 25, Carlos around 22, and 8 1/2 and the Vigo set around 20). Obviously, numbers don't make all the difference, but for what it's worth...

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knives
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#113 Post by knives » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:22 pm

Watching Three Crowns of the Sailor and am getting a whole lot of Mysteries of Lisbon vibes. Is this just coincidence or is this story about storytelling through storytelling nebula a common trait of his? Actually between the three I've gotten to (must have more) the strongest connecting thread seems to be in how they relate to storytelling. There's this self conscious attempt to bring the film into the oral tradition so they're more like being told something second or more likely hundredth hand than witnessing or whatever stories are usually experienced as. Even That Day with no true story teller had that fable you tell a child quality to it. That's really my favorite aspect to Ruiz thus far even though he really does offer everything.

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tarpilot
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#114 Post by tarpilot » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:02 am

Then you definitely need Dogs' Dialogue, which does as much (or more) with the short form as anything I've ever seen and no less than defines that I-find-something-new-everytime quality for me. Referring to it as narrative deconstruction would be putting it lightly and also doing a disservice to everything else going on (which, as zedz notes on the first page, is a lot). And if you dug Three Crowns of a Sailor, then you should be properly rocked by City of Pirates which has a similar pedigree in what I think you're getting at with the storytelling note, but is just more on every level.

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knives
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#115 Post by knives » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:16 am

Dog's Dialogue is Colloque de chiens, correct? I've coincidentally have that in an other tab and was planning on watching after this very fascinating interview they have on the disc. Pirates is on the Raridades set right?

karmajuice
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#116 Post by karmajuice » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:17 am

That exploration of storytelling via the mechanics of storytelling is definitely a recurring motif throughout Ruiz's work, although I wouldn't say that it's always (or merely) storytelling that's he dealing with. He's interested in how we engage with things, the rules and histories and traditions of not only stories, but also of institutions, critical thought, and all forms of art. Films like The Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting and The Suspended Vocation operate more along those lines.

Another good "stories about stories" film is Le domaine perdu/The Lost Domain.

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zedz
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Re: Raoul Ruiz on DVD

#117 Post by zedz » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:02 pm

Kirkinson wrote:272 minutes on a 50G Blu-ray would restrict you to an average bit rate of around 25 Mbps, which would probably yield a respectable but perhaps not spectacular transfer, depending on the film. Going by DVDBeaver, most Criterion Blu-rays seem to have an average rate of at least 30 Mbps, though there are some exceptions (Orpheus is around 25, Carlos around 22, and 8 1/2 and the Vigo set around 20). Obviously, numbers don't make all the difference, but for what it's worth...
I think it would be pushing it to squeeze the entire theatrical and television versions onto three discs, unless they were going to do seamless branching or something (but isn't that unreliable and variable according to different players?)

They could, however, add the TV-specific scenes as 'deleted scenes', though they're more like 'deleted narratives' on the third disc alongside the extras (which are copious, though I doubt a US distributor will go for all of them, radio interviews included).

In a perfect world, we'd get the full TV version on Blu (which hasn't been released anywhere, as far as I know) and some unique extras (I'd love to see Ruiz's Painleve film, though that would be a totally arbitrary inclusion).

EDIT: Another complication, of course, is that a US distributor may only have rights to the theatrical cut. Unlike Carlos, the full length Mysteries hasn't been shown / distributed in the US, correct?

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zedz
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#118 Post by zedz » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:51 pm

karmajuice wrote:That exploration of storytelling via the mechanics of storytelling is definitely a recurring motif throughout Ruiz's work, although I wouldn't say that it's always (or merely) storytelling that's he dealing with. He's interested in how we engage with things, the rules and histories and traditions of not only stories, but also of institutions, critical thought, and all forms of art. Films like The Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting and The Suspended Vocation operate more along those lines.

Another good "stories about stories" film is Le domaine perdu/The Lost Domain.
Just about every Ruiz film can be understood at some level as a narrative about narrative, even something as slight and generic as A Closed Book, in the way it revolves around the construction of false realities.

Then there are the films about specific narratives (Time Regained, Treasure Island - in general Ruiz's adaptations are far more than - or not at all like - traditional adaptations), films about narrative genres and their rules / constraints (Three Crowns of a Sailor, City of Pirates), films about the act of constructing narratives and the power of narrative to transform reality (Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting, Comedy of Innocence, The Suspended Vocation), films whose narratives slip and slide in ways that are so unpredictable and uncanny that they cause us to think about narrative itself in original ways (so many, but how about The Territory and Dogs' Dialogue?) and films like Love Torn in Dream that play once-in-a-lifetime games with narrative that nobody but Ruiz would even be able to conceive of.

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knives
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#119 Post by knives » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:56 pm

I hate to be a jerk and nitpick what is invaluable talk, but I'm not sure I can call Dog's Dialogue unpredictable (I'm not sure how uncanny is being used so I'm ignoring that part). It's a great film and all the greater the more I think about it, but the film doesn't take any twists that aren't set up within the first couple of minutes.

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zedz
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#120 Post by zedz » Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:09 pm

I wasn't using 'twist' exclusively in the context of plot developments. With that film, I think the twists are more in the way the story is told (e.g. how the photographs illustrate - or don't - the narration). Also, those categories are pretty impromptu, and a lot of Ruiz's films can fall into all of them (City of Pirates springs to mind, since it's specifically a riff on Peter Pan but also tackles the pirate and serial killer genres, slips around to a huge degree in a most dreamlike fashion and plays a lot with the act of narration).

For me, one of the most interesting and valuable things about Ruiz's treatment of narrative is the way he draws our attention to the rules that constrain narratives. For 99% of narrative consumers, these rules tend to be invisible, and narratives that violate the (temporally specific and evolving) rules of the day are automatically classified as 'bad', or 'failed', or 'stupid' rather than considered as possible instances of a non-standard narrative mode (though of course there are heaps of narratives that do fail on their own terms). Ruiz, by constructing films that are generated by unique, peculiar and highly artificial (but nevertheless internally consistent and recoverable) narrative rules, throws this aspect of narrative (which most other narratives try desperately to conceal, in the pursuit of verisimilitude) into relief.

Stefan Andersson
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#121 Post by Stefan Andersson » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:58 am

As Linhas de Torres, which would have been Ruiz´ next film project, is going ahead, directed by other persons, as decided by the producer.

Substantial cast list on the IMDb page. Several relevant posts here, and see also here, and for here basic info in Portuguese.

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knives
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#122 Post by knives » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:20 am

Silly question, but everywhere I go La Maleta is listed as 40 minutes long, but the only version I've been able to find is a smidgen under 20 and comes with credits so it seems complete. Can anyone say for certain the those extra twenty minutes do exist?

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zedz
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#123 Post by zedz » Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:47 pm

Given that La Maleta is supposedly an unfinished project, I think any running time is likely to be dubious, and poses the question of what you're looking at (the rushes? an incomplete assembly? a post facto edit by a third party?) and the inclusion of credits is almost certainly a much later addition and no guarantee of authorial authority. Unless for some bizarre reason Ruiz decided to create credits before he'd even finished shooting the film!

It does seem to have been intended as a short, however, so 40 minutes for an unfinished short does sound very long indeed. That figure might refer to some conglomeration of footage that was shown once upon a time, or it might refer to the intended length of the film, half of which remained unshot.

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knives
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#124 Post by knives » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:47 pm

The copy I found, here, has a copyright to Ruiz from 2008. What little research that does turn up suggest he found rushes and re-edited it together around that time ala Joan of Arc.

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zedz
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Re: Raul Ruiz

#125 Post by zedz » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:37 pm

If that's the case, then it sounds like what you've seen is the best you can expect. The 40-minute thing might well have been some self-perpetuating figure that originated from very sketchy information, rather than an actual screening of an actual film.

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