Jean-Pierre Melville
- DarkImbecile
- Ask me about my visible cat breasts
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
- Location: Albuquerque, NM
Jean-Pierre Melville
Jean-Pierre Melville (1917-1973)
"I'm not a documentarian; a film is first and foremost a dream, and it's absurd to copy life in an attempt to produce an exact recreation of it."
Filmography
Features
Le Silence de la Mer (1949)
Les Enfants terribles (1950)
Quand tu liras cette lettre / When You Read This Letter (1953)
Bob le Flambeur (1955)
Deux hommes dans Manhattan / Two Men in Manhattan (1959)
Léon Morin, prêtre (1961)
Le Doulos (1962)
L'aîné des Ferchaux / Magnet of Doom (1963)
Le deuxième souffle / Second Breath (1966)
Le samouraï (1967)
L'armée des ombres / Army of Shadows (1969)
Le Cercle rouge (1970)
Un flic (1972)
Shorts
"Vingt-quatre heures de la vie d'un clown" / "24 Hours in the Life of a Clown" (1945)
Books
Melville on Milville by Rui Nogueira, ed. (1971)
Jean-Pierre Melville: An American in Paris by Ginette Vincendeau (2003)
Forum Resources
French New Wave Mini-List Discussion + Suggestions
StudioCanal: Melville: the Essential Collection
150 Bob le Flambeur
218 Le cercle rouge
306 Le samouraï
385 Army of Shadows
398 Les enfants terribles
447-448 Le doulos and Le deuxieme souffle
572 Léon Morin, Priest
755 Le silence de la mer
Web Resources
Senses of Cinema biography and collection of articles and links
Cinephilia and Beyond's collection of links, videos, and articles
"Jean-Pierre Melville In Context" by Chris Peachment, National Film Theatre (1983)
"Poet of the Underworld" by Peter Lennon, The Guardian (2003)
"Double Exposure: Jean-Pierre Melville" by Adrien Bosc, Tablet (2017)
"How Jean-Pierre Melville Reinvented the American Noir" by Ada Pirvu, The Big Picture (2018)
"I'm not a documentarian; a film is first and foremost a dream, and it's absurd to copy life in an attempt to produce an exact recreation of it."
Filmography
Features
Le Silence de la Mer (1949)
Les Enfants terribles (1950)
Quand tu liras cette lettre / When You Read This Letter (1953)
Bob le Flambeur (1955)
Deux hommes dans Manhattan / Two Men in Manhattan (1959)
Léon Morin, prêtre (1961)
Le Doulos (1962)
L'aîné des Ferchaux / Magnet of Doom (1963)
Le deuxième souffle / Second Breath (1966)
Le samouraï (1967)
L'armée des ombres / Army of Shadows (1969)
Le Cercle rouge (1970)
Un flic (1972)
Shorts
"Vingt-quatre heures de la vie d'un clown" / "24 Hours in the Life of a Clown" (1945)
Books
Melville on Milville by Rui Nogueira, ed. (1971)
Jean-Pierre Melville: An American in Paris by Ginette Vincendeau (2003)
Forum Resources
French New Wave Mini-List Discussion + Suggestions
StudioCanal: Melville: the Essential Collection
150 Bob le Flambeur
218 Le cercle rouge
306 Le samouraï
385 Army of Shadows
398 Les enfants terribles
447-448 Le doulos and Le deuxieme souffle
572 Léon Morin, Priest
755 Le silence de la mer
Web Resources
Senses of Cinema biography and collection of articles and links
Cinephilia and Beyond's collection of links, videos, and articles
"Jean-Pierre Melville In Context" by Chris Peachment, National Film Theatre (1983)
"Poet of the Underworld" by Peter Lennon, The Guardian (2003)
"Double Exposure: Jean-Pierre Melville" by Adrien Bosc, Tablet (2017)
"How Jean-Pierre Melville Reinvented the American Noir" by Ada Pirvu, The Big Picture (2018)
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
This just goes to show how arbitrary and subject to change critical consensus tends to be. L'Armee des ombres only rose to the top very recently, after its way overdue American release. It was a critical flop on release and its reputation was way, way underground for decades, since very few people actually saw it. Le Cercle rouge also shot up the ranks after its re-release a few years earlier, as did Le Samourai in the 90s (though I'd bet that one stays the course, since it takes Melville's existential gangster aesthetic about as far as it can go - it's thus an exemplary Melville film).doc mccoy wrote:l'armee des ombres is widely regarded as Melville's masterpiece; Les enfants terrible, le deuxieme souffle and le samourai are also well liked. But the important point to remember about Le samourai is that it got more public exposure than any other Melville film because of its influence on Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs. Had other Melville films recieved equal exposure, it may not be within the top three or four.
It you go back before that flurry of rereleases to the 70s and 80s, Le Deuxieme Souffle was probably the best-regarded of his late films, but it didn't hold a critical candle to the Nouvelle Vague-endorsed Bob le Flambeur or Les Enfants terribles (which was generally - and I'd argue incorrectly - regarded as "actually a Cocteau film").
This kind of fluidity-according-to-availability is common enough, but Melville seems to be something of an extreme case, with different films being very available ( and others being very unavailable) at different periods.
The problem with Le Silence de la mer in all this is that it's never been particularly easy to see and has never enjoyed a high-profile re-release. As an independent production, it wasn't even that widely distributed at the time, I believe. It's a completely original masterpiece. With the MoC disc available, in another ten years this might be top of the consensus heap.
- Yojimbo
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
zedz you may be strictly correct about 'Le Samourai' as a quintessential Melville, but I just can't watch it any more: Melville, and Delon, especially, at their most precious.zedz wrote:This just goes to show how arbitrary and subject to change critical consensus tends to be. L'Armee des ombres only rose to the top very recently, after its way overdue American release. It was a critical flop on release and its reputation was way, way underground for decades, since very few people actually saw it. Le Cercle rouge also shot up the ranks after its re-release a few years earlier, as did Le Samourai in the 90s (though I'd bet that one stays the course, since it takes Melville's existential gangster aesthetic about as far as it can go - it's thus an exemplary Melville film).doc mccoy wrote:l'armee des ombres is widely regarded as Melville's masterpiece; Les enfants terrible, le deuxieme souffle and le samourai are also well liked. But the important point to remember about Le samourai is that it got more public exposure than any other Melville film because of its influence on Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs. Had other Melville films recieved equal exposure, it may not be within the top three or four.
It you go back before that flurry of rereleases to the 70s and 80s, Le Deuxieme Souffle was probably the best-regarded of his late films, but it didn't hold a critical candle to the Nouvelle Vague-endorsed Bob le Flambeur or Les Enfants terribles (which was generally - and I'd argue incorrectly - regarded as "actually a Cocteau film").
This kind of fluidity-according-to-availability is common enough, but Melville seems to be something of an extreme case, with different films being very available ( and others being very unavailable) at different periods.
The problem with Le Silence de la mer in all this is that it's never been particularly easy to see and has never enjoyed a high-profile re-release. As an independent production, it wasn't even that widely distributed at the time, I believe. It's a completely original masterpiece. With the MoC disc available, in another ten years this might be top of the consensus heap.
Sure it looks great, and the story is kind of 'noble' in a sense, but its done for me.
'Cercle' is his greatest crime film; painstakingly and intricately composed and structured; 'Bob' the left-field Masterpiece that launched a thousand Oceans, and 'L'Armee' will probably always be his greatest: its got everything!
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
That prediction wasn't a value judgement (though I really love the film), but more a comment on the film's archetypal nature.Yojimbo wrote:zedz you may be strictly correct about 'Le Samourai' as a quintessential Melville, but I just can't watch it any more: Melville, and Delon, especially, at their most precious.
Sure it looks great, and the story is kind of 'noble' in a sense, but its done for me.
- Yojimbo
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
that sounds like a great 'fence-sitter' reply!zedz wrote:That prediction wasn't a value judgement (though I really love the film), but more a comment on the film's archetypal nature.Yojimbo wrote:zedz you may be strictly correct about 'Le Samourai' as a quintessential Melville, but I just can't watch it any more: Melville, and Delon, especially, at their most precious.
Sure it looks great, and the story is kind of 'noble' in a sense, but its done for me.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
That's me: palings up the wazoo.Yojimbo wrote:that sounds like a great 'fence-sitter' reply!
- Yojimbo
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
Quite!zedz wrote:That's me: palings up the wazoo.Yojimbo wrote:that sounds like a great 'fence-sitter' reply!
[rummages around for phrasebook]
-
- Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:07 am
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
No takers for Leon Morin, Pretre or for Le doulos? Are we to assume that these are generally considered Melville's least best films?
What about Un flic - where does that stand roughly on the scoreboard?
What about Un flic - where does that stand roughly on the scoreboard?
- FerdinandGriffon
- Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:16 am
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
Not at all, the two Belmondo films are both astonishing mid-career works that personally I consider superior to Bob and Enfants and easily the equal of Le Cercle Rouge. I think Two Men in Manhattan and The Magnet of Doom are probably his least discussed films, but I wouldn't take that as any indication of their quality; Criterion will release them in a couple of years and then everyone will claim they're Melville's undiscovered masterpieces. That seems to be the pattern.doc mccoy wrote:No takers for Leon Morin, Pretre or for Le doulos? Are we to assume that these are generally considered Melville's least best films?
-
- Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:11 pm
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
I haven't seen any of the Belmondo/Melville movies, but did they probably meet on the set of Breathless?
- Yojimbo
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
my memory is that 'Le Doulos' was more Reggiani's than Belmondo's film; also that there was something unsatisfactory about a late shift in tone/direction.FerdinandGriffon wrote:Not at all, the two Belmondo films are both astonishing mid-career works that personally I consider superior to Bob and Enfants and easily the equal of Le Cercle Rouge. I think Two Men in Manhattan and The Magnet of Doom are probably his least discussed films, but I wouldn't take that as any indication of their quality; Criterion will release them in a couple of years and then everyone will claim they're Melville's undiscovered masterpieces. That seems to be the pattern.doc mccoy wrote:No takers for Leon Morin, Pretre or for Le doulos? Are we to assume that these are generally considered Melville's least best films?
Comparing Bob with any of Melville's other crime films is like comparing chalk with cheese
- Matt
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
I adore Le Doulous, but I find that few share my enthusiasm. I do think it's a trial run for the later, greater gangster films, but Belmondo brings a certain shaggy charm to his films with Melville that is a nice contrast with Delon's coolness. I really wish the three of them could have done a film together.
- Sloper
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:06 pm
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
I thought Leon Morin was great, and the against-type casting of Belmondo was one of the best things about it. No, he’s not an obviously Melvillean actor, but that’s why it’s exciting to see him toned down and minimalised. The ‘cool priest’ is such a tedious cliché, but Belmondo's (and Melville’s) restraint and seriousness make it work, and his deep-and-meaningful chats with Emanuelle Riva are really compelling. She’s great as well – a very rare example of a strong female character in Melville’s work. (I almost thought of Silence de la Mer as another, but it feels a bit desperate citing a film in which the woman doesn’t even speak!)
But David, I’m with you on Le Doulos. It’s a great film up until the twist, when the whole thing sinks into really unpalatable and sadistic misogyny. Just that one scene with the radiator (and the car over the cliff) tainted my enjoyment of all Melville’s films. I don’t think the problem is with Belmondo, though; just an obnoxious and incoherent screenplay. Reggiani does come out of the experience better, perhaps because his total inability to look cheerful reduces the cringeworthiness of the 'male bonding' stuff towards the end.
But David, I’m with you on Le Doulos. It’s a great film up until the twist, when the whole thing sinks into really unpalatable and sadistic misogyny. Just that one scene with the radiator (and the car over the cliff) tainted my enjoyment of all Melville’s films. I don’t think the problem is with Belmondo, though; just an obnoxious and incoherent screenplay. Reggiani does come out of the experience better, perhaps because his total inability to look cheerful reduces the cringeworthiness of the 'male bonding' stuff towards the end.
- Yojimbo
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
'Deuxieme Souffle' was something of a mess, and I had been looking forward to it so much after Cercle: I got the sense that Melville had constructed the film in half-hour blocs, working in isolation for each, and paying meticulous attention to detail, : the prison break,...'the shootout at the club',...'getting Gu back home',.....'the planning for the heist'......the aftermath of the heist, etc, etc,...but then failed to sit back and get a panoramic perspective on those constituent parts to see how best he could fit them into a coherent, and cohesive, whole.david hare wrote:I gues my problem with le Doulos is the unstoppable misogny and particularly the seemingly uncontrolled Belmondo character/performance. I also have problems with Leon Morin - Belmondo again. He just seems the wrong actor in the wrong screenplay with the wrong director. And my own verdict is still out on Deux Hommes dans Manhattan.
I suspect - depending on your mood at the time - Deuxieme Souffle is either a towering minimalist masterpiece or a pointless exercise. I tend to the former view.
It just doesn't flow
- psufootball07
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:52 pm
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
I prefer Le Deuxieme Souffle to Le Doulos, most likely more relating the actual story than anything else. Le Doulos had some great moments but I felt the ending was rather abrupt and awkward. Le Cercle Rouge is definitely one of my favorites after recently watching it, I somewhat prefer it to Army of Shadows, which is also great, but if I sit down and really want to watch a Melville film I am going to put on Le Samourai.
- GringoTex
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:57 am
Re: 46 Le Silence de la Mer
Le Doulous is my favorite Melville gangster film. There's misogyny in all of Melville's work. It's just that Belmondo doesn't sweep it under a beautiful rug like Delon can. I think it's Melville's most honest film.Matt wrote:I adore Le Doulous, but I find that few share my enthusiasm.
- Via_Chicago
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:03 pm
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
Don't really want to weigh in on the misogyny debate. Read Vincendeau's book for the authoritative discussion on that subject. As for the films, since this is a really hot topic, I'll just wade right in, Tag Gallager style:
**** masterpiece
*** must see
** see
* see if necessary
- have not seen
- Vingt-quatre heures de la vie d'un clown (1945)
**** Le Silence de la Mer (1949)
*** Les Enfants terribles (1950)
- Quand tu liras cette lettre / When You Read This Letter (1953)
*** Bob le Flambeur (1955)
- Deux hommes dans Manhattan / Two Men in Manhattan (1959)
**** Léon Morin, prêtre (1961)
** Le Doulos (1962)
- Aîné des Ferchaux, (1963)
*** Le Deuxième souffle / Second Breath (1966)
**** Le Samouraï (1967)
**** L'Armée des ombres / Army of Shadows (1969)
*** Le Cercle rouge (1970)
** Un flic (1972)
My opinion as to Melville's greatest film (which really ought to translate as "my favorite") alternates depending on what I've seen most recently among those pictures of his that I consider best. I need to re-watch both Le Deuxieme Souffle and Cercle Rouge. The first I saw under non-optimal conditions; the second I have not watched in several years.
**** masterpiece
*** must see
** see
* see if necessary
- have not seen
- Vingt-quatre heures de la vie d'un clown (1945)
**** Le Silence de la Mer (1949)
*** Les Enfants terribles (1950)
- Quand tu liras cette lettre / When You Read This Letter (1953)
*** Bob le Flambeur (1955)
- Deux hommes dans Manhattan / Two Men in Manhattan (1959)
**** Léon Morin, prêtre (1961)
** Le Doulos (1962)
- Aîné des Ferchaux, (1963)
*** Le Deuxième souffle / Second Breath (1966)
**** Le Samouraï (1967)
**** L'Armée des ombres / Army of Shadows (1969)
*** Le Cercle rouge (1970)
** Un flic (1972)
My opinion as to Melville's greatest film (which really ought to translate as "my favorite") alternates depending on what I've seen most recently among those pictures of his that I consider best. I need to re-watch both Le Deuxieme Souffle and Cercle Rouge. The first I saw under non-optimal conditions; the second I have not watched in several years.
Last edited by Via_Chicago on Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
I love it, but you left out the bullet, which is what really reveals his entire method as being lifted from the conseil des dix
-
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:36 pm
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
Given the conversation so far regarding Le Doulous, I thought I would jump in...Le Doulous is actually the very first Meville film I've ever watched (I'm far behind, I know I know), only about a month or so ago, and I absolutely loved it. What has stayed with me most is really the way it is filmed, how every single shot is just a true work of beauty. The story is good though unlike some here I found the ending to really be among the strongest points in terms of the narrative, and there were some moments that really surprised me scattered throughout.
I own Le Samouraï and do plan on watching it sometime hopefully soon, along with the rest of Melville's filmography. If nothing else though, I will say that Le Doulous as a first taste of the director has left me very much craving more.
I own Le Samouraï and do plan on watching it sometime hopefully soon, along with the rest of Melville's filmography. If nothing else though, I will say that Le Doulous as a first taste of the director has left me very much craving more.
- tojoed
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:47 am
- Location: Cambridge, England
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
Gaumont, France are releasing "Le Silence de la Mer" on Blu-Ray in March. I can't find any info on whether or not there are English subs, I'm afraid.
- NABOB OF NOWHERE
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:30 pm
- Location: Brandywine River
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
When I saw the cover I thought it must be the dreadful remake that was shown on TV last year in France. (The love affair was upped a few notches..natch). Why this dreadful colourised jacket? Do marketing numpties really think they're suckering people into buying a black and white film that they'd otherwise ignore?tojoed wrote:Gaumont, France are releasing "Le Silence de la Mer" on Blu-Ray in March. I can't find any info on whether or not there are English subs, I'm afraid.
Anyone know the accompanying doco?
- tojoed
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:47 am
- Location: Cambridge, England
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
Just an update for the first post, "Two Men in Manhattan" is available in its original version on a Spanish disc.
- dad1153
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:32 am
- Location: New York, NY
- Ovader
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:56 am
- Location: Canada
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
Perhaps this was mentioned elsewhere in this forum. Just came across an interesting discussion on Facebook via writer/scholar Brad Stevens in which Melville actually shot separate English-language versions for Le Samouraï, Le Cercle rouge and Un Flic. Same camera angles and editing but with the actors speaking English rather than French (exception: Delon was dubbed in order to eliminate his French accent). Only shots which involved dialogue were filmed twice.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Jean-Pierre Melville
Tied a bow on Melville by finally seeing my last two unwatched titles, to mixed results:
For most of the running time, I found myself head over heels for Quand tu liras cette lettre (1953). Philippe Lemaire gives one of the great asshole performances as a skeevy lothario who forces himself on women, eventually raping one and driving her to suicide. The subsequent rape revenge is unexpected and diabolical in its own way, and Melville really nails the ultimate punishment for such toxic masculinity. And then… Even with this huge caveat, this is still a highly enjoyable film from Melville, and one that deserves a rediscovery when/if it receives an English-friendly release.
L’aine des Ferchaux (1963) is less successful, though this pulpy tale of a crooked French businessman befriending his untrustworthy secretary, played by the ever-present Jean-Paul Belmondo, has a lot going for it. I enjoyed the film’s turn to America for the last two acts, though it is an America of second unit photography while our principles remain on French sets. And I admired the film for being thoroughly devoted to making the protagonist an increasingly frustrating jerk and his boss a weakening bother. I’m not someone who gravitates to these kind of readings but the film is blatantly homoerotic, and the rejection and betrayal of the last act is right out of any number of May-December romances. That said… Melville can’t quite make all of the pieces here work as a whole. The film is unsatisfying in rallying these parts, and it seems to lose steam with every new locale. Belmondo is uninvested and it shows. A near miss for Melville here.
For most of the running time, I found myself head over heels for Quand tu liras cette lettre (1953). Philippe Lemaire gives one of the great asshole performances as a skeevy lothario who forces himself on women, eventually raping one and driving her to suicide. The subsequent rape revenge is unexpected and diabolical in its own way, and Melville really nails the ultimate punishment for such toxic masculinity. And then…
SpoilerShow
I naturally thought that Lemaire was leading Juliette Greco on when he professed his love for her, as it came out of nowhere and would fit well with his character— how else to turn this to his advantage than to flip the tables on the woman who blackmailed him into doing the (horribly unfair to the victim) “right thing”? But then it becomes clear he is sincere, and what’s worse, Greco falls for it. Both arrive on this without the film justifying their about-faces. The film is missing a good ten minutes of narrative necessity to justify these emotional changes, and they are not present in the picture. While this means the film goes off the rails in the last twenty minutes, I did like the ending, with absolutely no one caring about Lemaire’s death— loved the nonchalant hosedown of the train!
L’aine des Ferchaux (1963) is less successful, though this pulpy tale of a crooked French businessman befriending his untrustworthy secretary, played by the ever-present Jean-Paul Belmondo, has a lot going for it. I enjoyed the film’s turn to America for the last two acts, though it is an America of second unit photography while our principles remain on French sets. And I admired the film for being thoroughly devoted to making the protagonist an increasingly frustrating jerk and his boss a weakening bother. I’m not someone who gravitates to these kind of readings but the film is blatantly homoerotic, and the rejection and betrayal of the last act is right out of any number of May-December romances. That said… Melville can’t quite make all of the pieces here work as a whole. The film is unsatisfying in rallying these parts, and it seems to lose steam with every new locale. Belmondo is uninvested and it shows. A near miss for Melville here.