Mario Bava

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djali999
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#76 Post by djali999 » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:42 pm

Got mine yesterday -- astonishingly great book. It would've been a fair price for $500, never mind the $260 they're asking and the $97 I got it for in 2004 (!). Was amused to see my name near Nick Redman's in the Patrons section. Of course who knows if it's the same Nick Redman who haunts commentaries for Peckinpah movies, but I like to think it is.

It's so massive I've been having to hunt and peck through it, but I've read the chapters on most of my favorites as well as the bit on Inferno, and was very relieved to have Bava's exact contributions to that film clarified.

Daliah Lavi
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#77 Post by Daliah Lavi » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:08 am

Mine arrived last week. It's everything I expected and quite a bit more! The photo/poster restorations are 1st rate, and I found the chapter on Hercules in the Haunted World fascinating.

Can you honestly expect another book to outdo this definitive film reference book? I think not. Evenings are such fun when you have All the Colors of the Dark to read :wink:

Hopefully Tim's blog will divulge that Bay of Blood has been suitably restored at least audibly, the coming days are Nirvana for this Bava admirer.

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Barmy
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#78 Post by Barmy » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:43 pm

First person to find a typo should win an award.

Daliah Lavi
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#79 Post by Daliah Lavi » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:58 pm

You are wicked! :twisted:

I wonder if Dark Sky's Operazione paura/Kill, Baby... Kill! will ever see the light of day, or at least those mouth watering extras..

MattXFLexicon
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#80 Post by MattXFLexicon » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:46 pm

First Post, please be gentile with me. A friend, who's a member of this forum, recommend this forum to me. I was quite thrilled to find a thread regarding Mario Bava, at least there's a place to have some reasonable discussions over his films.

I discovered Bava's films in earnest about four years ago and have developed one of those addiction's to his work. It always strikes me as odd when filmbuffs argue there's no artistry to be found in genre directors.

I can't claim to have seen everything, I'd have to include in Bava's top five best films, Black Sunday, Black Sabbath, Blood and Black Lace (although, that's arguable.) Kill, Baby...Kill and Diabolik.

I'd also have to add that The Girl Who Knew Too Much and The Whip and the Body are greatly underrated films. Both would fall into my top ten favorites, as well as Planet of the Vampires.

I've also enjoyed Hercules in the Haunted World as well as Knives of the Avenger which holds up fairly well.

Of his later work, I have seen and liked Lisa and The Devil which features some unforgettable moments. Rabid Dogs which, under different circumstances, might have been his definitive final statement. I was underwhelmed with Shock, although it did have one of the greatest staging, camera framing sequences with the hallway, child transforms into dead husband. A moment that builds so effectively, it should be required viewing for all aspiring Cinemaphotographers / Directors.

I can't pass much judgement over Bava's late 60s, early 70s films as I haven't seen them. I hope to be catching up on Erik the Conqueror, Road to Fort Alamo, Dr. Goldfoot, Savage Gringo, Hatchet for the Honeymoon, Four Times that Night, Five Dolls for an August Moon, Roy Colt & Winchester Jack, Bay or Blood and Baron Blood.

Anyway, pardon the length. The re-masters from Anchor Bay seem a step up from the Image editions.

Daliah Lavi
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#81 Post by Daliah Lavi » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:25 am

Daliah Lavi wrote:Hopefully Tim's blog will divulge that Bay of Blood has been suitably restored at least audibly, the coming days are Nirvana for this Bava admirer.
Tim did exactly that. It's now been confirmed that Bay of Blood has indeed been improved both sonically and visually for its Bava box set Vol 2 release. That's me sold :D

He also mentioned that the PAL Italian release of BoB contains an alternative version as the film was shot twice. So a dear Italian friend has bought me a copy as a Halloween present.

MattXFLexicon
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#82 Post by MattXFLexicon » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:17 pm

You know, I've wondered if the Tim Lucas commentary that was done for the Dark Sky edition of Kill, Baby...Kill. Will ever see the light of day on the Anchor Bay editions?

In theory, couldn't Anchor Bay buy the rights from Dark Sky to use the Tim Lucas commantary on their print? :?

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#83 Post by MattXFLexicon » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:28 pm

Hello, I just had a brief corespondence with Tim Lucas to compliment him regarding his Audo commentaries for the Bava Box 2 set. Really nice guy.

Anyway I asked him if he knows if Anchor Bay has any intention to release a third box set with Road to Fort Alamo, Planet of the Vampires, Savage Gringo, Dr. Goldfoot and Hatchet for the Honeymoon. He mentioned, considering the budget cuts that occured with the second set, and doubts another box set will happen.

I just thought I'd pass that on. :?

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JonDambacher
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#84 Post by JonDambacher » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:03 am

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:Agreed. Bava also has some pretty kinky outfits going on in Danger: Diabolik as well!
Danger: Diabolik! is amazing. Bava was such a master at using trickery of the camera to capture some pretty impressive effects. Take a look at the secret mountain side entrance to Diabolik's lair or the underground cave scenes--especially when Eva went for a walk through what appears to be a window viewed passage way through the caves. She's simply walking on a basic catwalk and they've bounced the effect using her basic shadow. In fact, all of these caves were really just glass cut outs they shot light through down onto the set. Also, who could forget "Deep Down" by Christy on top of another funky score by the legendary Ennio Morricone. For a terrorist, Diabolik has really got the life.

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Michael
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Re: Mario Bava

#85 Post by Michael » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:42 am

Operazione Paura, I prefer to call it by its Italian title, not the silly American title Kill Baby Kill. Revisited it last night, and now just rolled off my bed this morning, the film still whirling in my my mind with its sublime cinematography and decaying, mossy set pieces all lit in beautiful Christmas colors. Imagine yourself a kid lying underneath a Christmas tree, disappearing into the ass of its illuminating heaven of sparkly colors glistening and swirling - but there's still a sense of danger: getting crushed by the falling tree or slashed by shattered glass or blinded by sharp spruce needles. Bava brings me to that world. Operazione Paura is really a gorgeous opera of gothic horror imagery and music. I couldn't ever get enough of that. Carriages sliding through fog, folks getting caught into purple and green cobwebs, villagers and even cats hiding away in fear.. all in the world where corpses with their dead eyes still flickering alive. It's pulsated with moments of intense beauty. The silence of the couple entering the Graps mausoleum, the weird reflection of the sun on the chapel's window as the night creeps in.
Operazione Paura is truly a masterpiece, my favorite film ever at times.

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Yojimbo
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Re: Mario Bava

#86 Post by Yojimbo » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:36 pm

I watched it for the first time a couple of nights, and followed with another Bava 'virgin', 'The Girl Who Knew Too Much', which I thought more of a fun film, not dissimilar to say Hitchcock's 'Family Plot' in tone.

But I thought I detected a strong Roger Corman influence in KBK, particularly 'Usher', and even his 50's stuff like 'The Undead'
As for what it influenced Fellini's 'Toby Dammit' from "Histoires extraordinaires" , Nicolas Roeg's 'Don't Look Now', and various Hammer horror, albeith the latter may have been more influenced by Corman

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jsteffe
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Re: Mario Bava

#87 Post by jsteffe » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:12 am

I'm surprised there haven't been more posts on this thread considering what a great filmmaker Bava is. I was happy to see the much-improved color of the remastered DVD of Operazione Paura / Kill Baby Kill in the Bava box set.

Speaking of scary Christmas trees, be sure to check out the Italian DVD of Terrore nello spazio / Planet of the Vampires. The color is gorgeous, and you can hear the original Italian track with English subtitles. I found it to be a more gripping experience than the English dub, though that is also not too bad. However, the color of the Italian DVD is really eye-popping compared to the OK MGM R1 DVD. Not sure if the Italian DVD is still in print.

The ruined spaceship in that film served as a major source of inspiration for Ridley Scot's Alien, of course.

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Cold Bishop
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Re: Mario Bava

#88 Post by Cold Bishop » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:26 am

MGM certainly has an HD transfer of Planet of the Vampires lying around, seeing it pops up from time to time on FearNet. No sign of any Blu-Ray unfortunately.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Mario Bava

#89 Post by Mr Sausage » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:13 am

I don't know about everyone else, but I primarily value Bava as a gothic fantasist. He is at his best when conjuring up purely invented worlds of the imagination. Especially wonderful is when he takes realistic narratives, like in Blood and Black Lace, and through lighting and camera tricks turns them into morbid fantasies where faceless killers can melt in and out of the darkness and the world can strobe gaudy pastel colours. For me the Bava canon is thus:

Black Sunday
Black Sabbath
The Girl Who Knew Too Much
Kill, Baby...Kill!
Lisa and the Devil
Blood and Black Lace
Hatchet for the Honeymoon
The Whip and the Body

I have no particular use for his non-Gothic, non-fantastical films or his brief forays into viking/peplum and spaghetti western films. I will note that there are two exceptions: the realistic The Girl Who Knew Too Much is one of his best, whereas his late period gothic fantasy Baron Blood feels lifeless and uninvolving. I'm not a big fan of Danger: Diabolik, either, I find it becomes enervated half way through, tho' the first half is a delight--especially the descent into Diabolik's cave. Rabid Dogs is a rather good, claustophobic thriller, but not especially accomplished and certainly not representative of the man's immense capacity for invention. Despite an astonishing opening of pure visual story-telling, some inventive gore effects, and a blackly comic (if still oddly conservative) ending, Bay of Blood is a let-down. If it had lived up to the promise of its of its opening it would have been one of his best. Hercules in the Haunted World is livened by its outrageous colour designs and inventive set-pieces, but never sustains either narrative drive or visual atmosphere; it ebbs and flows, weighed down I think by the demands of genre convention and setting. Five Dolls for an August Moon, like just about every Bava, has scattered moments of excellence and creative exuberance, but unlike his best never manages to sustain these flights of visual invention and save the mediocre script.

I realize I've said next to nothing about Bava's best, and this is mostly because I think my inclusions need less explaining than my exclusions. One exception is Hatchet for the Honeymoon, which I don't think gets enough credit for being such an ingenious fantasy. It starts as a realistic psychological portrait of a killer and slowly and deliciously reveals itself to inhabit a totally imaginary world, where one can glide into a room of trussed-up manikins, all lit as tho' alive, and glowing with pastel colours; and where you'll find a totally unique vision of ghostly haunting, where the ghoul appears to everyone but the protagonist, haunting him through absence and robbing him of his one real pleasure in life. This is Bava at his very best.

I haven't yet been able to see Planet of the Vampires, if anyone's wondering why I haven't included it.

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Yojimbo
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Re: Mario Bava

#90 Post by Yojimbo » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:49 am

I've got Volume Two of the Bava box-set on order so I'm interested in seeing did he maintain the standards of Volume One
(although I haven't watched 'Knives of the Avenger', yet)
I'd already seen 'Black Sunday' on tv years ago, and recorded it on VHS but looking forward to enjoying it again on DVD: I suspect I'll probably still consider it his best.

I've also just today received my DVD of Fulci's 'Lizard in a Woman's Skin' so looking forward to watching it, and comparing and contrasting
(I loved his 'Don't Torture A Duckling', although the killer was all too obvious from an early stage)

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jsteffe
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Re: Mario Bava

#91 Post by jsteffe » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:17 am

Mr_sausage wrote:I don't know about everyone else, but I primarily value Bava as a gothic fantasist. He is at his best when conjuring up purely invented worlds of the imagination. Especially wonderful is when he takes realistic narratives, like in Blood and Black Lace, and through lighting and camera tricks turns them into morbid fantasies where faceless killers can melt in and out of the darkness and the world can strobe gaudy pastel colours. For me the Bava canon is thus:

Black Sunday
Black Sabbath
The Girl Who Knew Too Much
Kill, Baby...Kill!
Lisa and the Devil
Blood and Black Lace
Hatchet for the Honeymoon
The Whip and the Body
I agree, these are his strongest films. I think I like Danger: Diabolik and Bay of Blood somewhat more than you, but yes, the scripts are an issue for many of his films.

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Yojimbo
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Re: Mario Bava

#92 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:12 pm

[Mod Note: all posts from here until Yojimbo's last, truncated post were restored after having been deleted, so time markers and such won't reflect the reality of their initial posting]

Watched 'Blood and Black Lace' a couple of nights ago, and am about to watch it again with commentary turned on.

It might prove to be my favourite Bava, and, indeed, giallo: previously I had thought that accolade should be accorded Argento's 'Deep Red', although I'll be giving that another look, too.

But I think what stood out for me about this one was the brilliant use of colour; and lighting, and shadows.
Just goes to show what a difference they make when used effectively.

Which is not to damn the film with faint praise of being a mere exercise in style, but they were used to enhance the story, which, in Hollywood hands, even Corman's, might just be considered a fun 'romp', but in the hands of a master like Bava its a work of art.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Mario Bava

#93 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:14 pm

Yojimbo wrote:Which is not to damn the film with faint praise of being a mere exercise in style
I actually do think the movie is an exercise in style, but there is nothing "mere" about that. Style is the essence of art, the thing that transforms or transfigures mere information into artistic product, and Blood and Black Lace is a glorious example of a pure exercise in style, or perhaps more to the point, an exercise in pure style. Who but Bava would turn a murder mystery into a fantasmagoria continually threatening to burst through reality altogether? It's actually somewhat disappointing to discover the mystery has a logical explanation after all. Blood and Black Lace's script, like most of Bava's scripts, is a limitation on Bava's imagination and you can feel that imagination straining at the edges. The script is enhanced not because Bava's style is at its service; no, the enhancement is an accidental by-product of Bava straining so hard to get free of the chains of strict causality and explanation. That's why Lisa and the Devil is so moving, and so sad: you can finally see what it's like for Bava to work totally uninhibited, following only the demands of his own fancy. Such a shame it took so long for him to find that freedom, and then only to see its fruits ruined by the demands of the producer. One feels that if he'd been a writer or a painter, professions not as commercially demanding and regulated, he'd have achieved something even greater than he did.

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Yojimbo
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Re: Mario Bava

#94 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:15 pm

Mr_sausage wrote:
Yojimbo wrote:Which is not to damn the film with faint praise of being a mere exercise in style
I actually do think the movie is an exercise in style, but there is nothing "mere" about that. Style is the essence of art, the thing that transforms or transfigures mere information into artistic product, and Blood and Black Lace is a glorious example of a pure exercise in style, or perhaps more to the point, an exercise in pure style. Who but Bava would turn a murder mystery into a fantasmagoria continually threatening to burst through reality altogether? It's actually somewhat disappointing to discover the mystery has a logical explanation after all. Blood and Black Lace's script, like most of Bava's scripts, is a limitation on Bava's imagination and you can feel that imagination straining at the edges.
Since watching it again with commentary on, I also watched an interview with Cameron Mitchell who ran out of superlatives to describe Bava's genius, and he said that if Bava ever had a decent script, he would have had no equal.
But the script in 'Blood and Black Lace' is a lot of fun; and then, like I said when comparing it to a Corman, or even a standard AIP movie, we don't expect great things from their scripts, also.
But when I said he enhanced the script; the script set limits to what he could show, but he showed magnificent invention in exploiting it.

If your previous post where you list various Bava films is your ranking of them, I think you greatly undervalue it

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Mario Bava

#95 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:17 pm

Yojimbo wrote:If your previous post where you list various Bava films is your ranking of them, I think you greatly undervalue it
No, they aren't ranked, that's just the order in which they occured to me (it's not for nothing that the first five appear in the order they do in the Anchor Bay box sets). If I were to rank them, I'd probably put Blood and Black Lace below only Lisa and the Devil and Kill, Baby...Kill!
Yojimbo wrote:But when I said he enhanced the script; the script set limits to what he could show, but he showed magnificent invention in exploiting it.
Sorry, I wasn't really disagreeing with you. My post was less a response to you than an excuse to give my own thoughts on the movie.
Yojimbo wrote:But the script in 'Blood and Black Lace' is a lot of fun; and then, like I said when comparing it to a Corman, or even a standard AIP movie, we don't expect great things from their scripts, also.
However odd this may sound, I truly think the movie would have shot up to "unqualified masterpiece" if it turned out that, say, the killer was one of the beauty-shop mannikins come to life and obsessed with creating a display of human mannikins, or something bizarre and inexplicable like that.

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Yojimbo
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Re: Mario Bava

#96 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:18 pm

Mr_sausage wrote:However odd this may sound, I truly think the movie would have shot up to "unqualified masterpiece" if it turned out that, say, the killer was one of the beauty-shop mannikins come to life and obsessed with creating a display of human mannikins, or something bizarre and inexplicable like that.
interesting, but it wouldn't really be Bava, then, would it?
Has he ever done anything so surreal?

btw, have you ever seen the UK horror film, 'Circus of Horrors'?
I wonder was Bava aware of it, because in the disfigurement scene I was reminded of scenes from it

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Mario Bava

#97 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:19 pm

Yojimbo wrote:interesting, but it wouldn't really be Bava, then, would it?
Has he ever done anything so surreal?
He played with the suggestion of potentially living wax dummies in Lisa and the Devil, and I think the heroine in Hatchet for the Honeymoon pretends to be a mannikin at one point to confuse the maniac. Plus aren't images of the actors collocated with dressed-up mannikins during the Blood and Black Lace credits?

The man had a mannikin obsession that I wish he'd developed further. He loves to light mannikins in such a way to suggest that at any moment they might come to life, and to let the photography give them a dimension and character that makes them something more than just dress holders. Comparisons between people and dolls or mannikins, along with deliberate confusions between the living and the lifeless, is a persistant motif in his films. Some examples beyond Lisa and the Devil and Hatchet for the Honeymoon: in Blood and Black Lace the face of the very lively killer is made to look like a mannikin's, while some of the victims, most notably the girl drowned in the tub, are made to look like dolls or dummies upon death. Then there's Black Sabbath, whose dead medium in the final episode I think looks deliberately like the dummy she is, which is appropriate for a movie that revels in its own constructedness. In Black Sunday, people become metaphysically linked to their own portraits--portraits that not only suggest hidden identities but change to reflect those rising identities. Melissa in Kill, Baby...Kill!, with her dress and her hair and her unchanging glassy expression, is made-up to resemble a doll, and Bava even photographs her among dolls. The Baron in Baron Blood is linked with his own disfigured portrait, whose eyes seem alive with his spirit, and indeed we're given many pregnant close-ups of those eyes.
Yojimbo wrote:btw, have you ever seen the UK horror film, 'Circus of Horrors'?
I wonder was Bava aware of it, because in the disfigurement scene I was reminded of scenes from it
No, I've not seen it.

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Yojimbo
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Re: Mario Bava

#98 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:21 pm

Mr_sausage wrote:
Yojimbo wrote:interesting, but it wouldn't really be Bava, then, would it?
Has he ever done anything so surreal?
He played with the suggestion of potentially living wax dummies in Lisa and the Devil, and I think the heroine in Hatchet for the Honeymoon pretends to be a mannikin at one point to confuse the maniac. Plus aren't images of the actors collocated with dressed-up mannikins during the Blood and Black Lace credits?

The man had a mannikin obsession that I wish he'd developed further. He loves to light mannikins in such a way to suggest that at any moment they might come to life, and to let the photography give them a dimension and character that makes them something more than just dress holders.
Yes, so I've noticed, although having a dead mannequin come to life would be something of a 'quantum leap' from the other instances you've cited.

You should check out 'Circus of Horrors', though: quite apart from the defacing aspects I recall the colour scheme was particularly lurid

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Michael
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Re: Mario Bava

#99 Post by Michael » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:23 pm

I am also with mr. sausage that Lisa and the Devil is the glittering diamond of Bava's gems. Kill Baby Kill is right behind. I also agree that Blood and Black Lace should be hailed as a masterpiece. Same thing with The Whip and the Body, which blesses us with Christopher Lee's greatest performance.

Rereading the first post I wrote on this thread, my god. What was I on?!

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colinr0380
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Re: Mario Bava

#100 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:24 pm

This is off topic but Yojimbo have you got the Criterion Monsters and Madmen set? It has been a couple of years since I listened to it but I remember Yvonne Romain going into some depth on Circus of Horrors in her audio interview with Tom Weaver from the Corridors Of Blood disc.

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