Mario Bava

Discussion and info on people in film, ranging from directors to actors to cinematographers to writers.
Message
Author
User avatar
Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Mario Bava

#101 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:27 pm

colinr0380 wrote:This is off topic but Yojimbo have you got the Criterion Monsters and Madmen set? It has been a couple of years since I listened to it but I remember Yvonne Romain going into some depth on Circus of Horrors in her audio interview with Tom Weaver from the Corridors Of Blood disc.
Hi Col
No, I haven't got that set.
Can you recall what she said about it?

User avatar
Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Mario Bava

#102 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:30 pm

Michael wrote:I am also with mr. sausage that Lisa and the Devil is the glittering diamond of Bava's gems. Kill Baby Kill is right behind. I also agree that Blood and Black Lace should be hailed as a masterpiece. Same thing with The Whip and the Body, which blesses us with Christopher Lee's greatest performance.

Rereading the first post I wrote on this thread, my god. What was I on?!
I see 'Lisa' is in the 2nd Bava box-set, so I must check it out soon; I haven't watched any of the films in that set, yet, although it should be interesting to see what kind of a stab, - ouch, - he made of the spaghetti western genre.

I don't have 'The Whip and the Body' but I see that its available on a double set with a Fulci, 'Conspiracy of Torture', so I guess that means I've gotta buy it!

I'll be (very pleasantly) surprised if any of them top 'Blood and Black Lace', though

User avatar
Matt
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Mario Bava

#103 Post by Matt » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:31 pm

The films in the second Bava box run the gamut from stupendously great to execrable, but I'll let you discover which fall where on your own. But, oh, Lisa and the Devil. I've championed that film around here for years.

User avatar
Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Mario Bava

#104 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:31 pm

Just watched 'Lisa': there's certainly a lot of great elements in it, but I wouldn't rank it above 'B&BL', for starters.
There is a caveat, though, that I dozed off once or twice, and also was easily distracted when there were elements that reminded me of the kind of boring, heavily-cut Euro-trash films of the early-to-mid 70's that haunted the Dublin late-night double bill circuit.
(I instantly recognised 'Rodrigo's Guitar Concerto D'Aranjuez', which is perhaps too romantic a type of music to be included in a horror film)

I'm not sure was Telly Savalas performance meant to provide some kind of Shakespearean 'Fool' light-relief but he struck too many wrong notes for me.
(and whose idea was the 'Kojak-ian lollipop sucking?)
And, even allowing for the kind of acting usually called for in horror films, I thought the actor playing the son was particularly wretched.
(Nothing much wrong with the other performances, though; especially if the Savalas character was meant to lighten the tone)

I wonder did this provide any inspiration for Tim Burton's 'Beetlejuice', and 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2', for starters?
The cockpit scene reminded me of a fairly trashy horror film starring Kim Novak from around the same time, and may already have been a cliche by the time this was made.
Whatever the flaws this film has, I suspect if anything the film wasn't improved by remaking as 'The House of Exorcism' , based on what the changes my 'Psychotronic Guide' have outlined were made.

I will, of course, be interested in hearing the advocates for 'Lisa's' pre-eminence state their case, as I'll probably give it another look; perhaps firstly with commentary on

User avatar
Mr Sausage
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Mario Bava

#105 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Yojimbo wrote:(and whose idea was the 'Kojak-ian lollipop sucking?)
I think it was Telly's own. Lisa and the Devil precedes The Marcus-Nelson Murders, Kojak's first appearence.
Yojimbo wrote:(I instantly recognised 'Rodrigo's Guitar Concerto D'Aranjuez', which is perhaps too romantic a type of music to be included in a horror film)
But this is such a romantic horror movie.
Yojimbo wrote:I'm not sure was Telly Savalas performance meant to provide some kind of Shakespearean 'Fool' light-relief but he struck too many wrong notes for me.
I remember Matt once called his performance 'raffish,' which, along with 'impish,' is the best way to describe his devil: a trickster, watching bemused as his wax dummies put on a show.

Lisa and the Devil isn't the kind of movie you can be talked into liking. You just have to let yourself be won over by its peculier magic. Watching it wide-awake and with full attention is ideal.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: Mario Bava

#106 Post by zedz » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:34 pm

Yojimbo wrote:(and whose idea was the 'Kojak-ian lollipop sucking?)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Lisa and the Devil was the chicken to Kojak's egg in re. lollipops, the sucking thereof.

User avatar
Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Mario Bava

#107 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:36 pm

zedz wrote:
Yojimbo wrote:(and whose idea was the 'Kojak-ian lollipop sucking?)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Lisa and the Devil was the chicken to Kojak's egg in re. lollipops, the sucking thereof.
which came first, though?
The perennial question!

User avatar
Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Mario Bava

#108 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:40 pm

Mr_sausage wrote:
Yojimbo wrote: (I instantly recognised 'Rodrigo's Guitar Concerto D'Aranjuez', which is perhaps too romantic a type of music to be included in a horror film)
But this is such a romantic horror movie.
Yes, but its the style of romance: it reminded me too much of those soft-focus Euro-trash movies, which promised far more than they delivered.
Particularly with the snip-happy censor we had in the 70's

Mr_sausage wrote:
Yojimbo wrote:I'm not sure was Telly Savalas performance meant to provide some kind of Shakespearean 'Fool' light-relief but he struck too many wrong notes for me.
I remember Matt once calling his performance 'raffish.' That and maybe 'impish' are the best ways to describe his devil: a trickster, watching bemused as his wax dummies put on a show.
I wonder was it (at least, in part) modelled on Walter Huston from 'The Devil and Daniel Webster': and I didn't really care for his Devil, either.
Perhaps I'm too old fashioned, when it comes to diabolical portrayals
Mr_sausage wrote:Lisa and the Devil isn't the kind of movie you can be talked into liking. You just have to let yourself be won over by its peculier magic. Watching it wide-awake and with full attention is ideal.
Yes, but what about it made it so special for you?

User avatar
Mr Sausage
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Mario Bava

#109 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:43 pm

Yojimbo wrote:I wonder was it (at least, in part) modelled on Walter Huston from 'The Devil and Daniel Webster': and I didn't really care for his Devil, either.
Perhaps I'm too old fashioned, when it comes to diabolical portrayals
But these are old fashioned devils. Satan as an impish trickster has been the mainstay of folk-tale and legend for centuries.
Yojimbo wrote:Yes, but what about it made it so special for you?
Well, it would take too long to list all the things I like about it, and even then I don't know that we'd ever get close to what makes it special for me. I'll give it a try, tho': Lisa and the Devil is the exact kind of fantasy I like, a combination of familiar elements (gothic tropes like the old haunted house, Poe-like sexual obsession, reincarnation, the folk-tale sense of eternal repetition ect.) and unfamiliar ones (the confusions between wax figures and real figures and between living and dead incarnations of the same person, the elegaic tone of loss and regret, the various symbolic ways the characters try to recapture love, the perverse and grand-guignol rituals they indulge in). It's a totally hermetic fantasy, a cloistered and maze-like world of stagnation, repetition, and perpetually unfulfilled yearning. Bava never capitulates to causal logic when he can follow the impulses of his fancy instead. The movie makes no logical sense, but it makes perfect imaginative sense. Every element feels in its exact right place, even when it cannot be explained. The visual themes unify the movie. It is a genuinely romantic and genuinely morbid horror film, and Bava achieves a pinpoint balance between these two elements through nothing but his artistry.
Yojimbo wrote:Yes, but its the style of romance: it reminded me too much of those soft-focus Euro-trash movies, which promised far more than they delivered.
It's a lush Italian genre movie from the seventies, what were you expecting? The difference is that Bava mobilizes his style on behalf of something grand and moving and, yes, slightly trashy, and not on behalf of cheap and easily forgotten thrills.

User avatar
Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Mario Bava

#110 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:43 pm

Mr_sausage wrote:The movie makes no logical sense, but it makes perfect imaginative sense. Every element feels in its exact right place, even when it cannot be explained.
I love the way you anticipate, and silence, any possible comeback I might have! :D
Mr_sausage wrote:
Yojimbo wrote:Yes, but its the style of romance: it reminded me too much of those soft-focus Euro-trash movies, which promised far more than they delivered.
It's a lush Italian genre movie from the seventies, what were you expecting? The difference is that Bava mobilizes his style on behalf of something grand and moving and, yes, slightly trashy, and not on behalf of cheap and easily forgotten thrills.
Thats the point, though; one expects Bava to rise above the levels of his inferiors, and not cause one to be reminded of them.

Next up, I think, will not be the spaghetti Western, but I was intrigued by the description of 'Rabid Dogs', and the history of its
making.

User avatar
Mr Sausage
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Mario Bava

#111 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:44 pm

Yojimbo wrote:Thats the point, though; one expects Bava to rise above the levels of his inferiors, and not cause one to be reminded of them.
I thought my point was that he rose above them. When there's a guaze filter on the lense, a pop-ish version of the theme is soaring, and the actors are running around outside in slow motion, clothed in regal get-up, things are kind of ridiculous, but those elements of style are in the service of genuine emotion and the actual themes the movie has carefully erected. It works because Bava has taken care to draw you in to the unreal atmosphere of the movie, and by the time you've reached the above scene you're ready to accept whatever fantastic images Bava wants to throw at you, even if they might seem a bit trashy or ludicrous.
Yojimbo wrote:Next up, I think, will not be the spaghetti Western, but I was intrigued by the description of 'Rabid Dogs', and the history of its making.
Make sure you watch the Rabid Dogs cut and not the cut named Kidnapped on the same disc. The former is the movie as Bava made it, the latter is an attempt to reconstruct what it might have looked like if Bava had lived, and by all accounts it sucks.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: Mario Bava

#112 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:44 pm

Yojimbo wrote:
colinr0380 wrote: This is off topic but Yojimbo have you got the Criterion Monsters and Madmen set? It has been a couple of years since I listened to it but I remember Yvonne Romain going into some depth on Circus of Horrors in her audio interview with Tom Weaver from the Corridors Of Blood disc.
Hi Col
No, I haven't got that set.
Can you recall what she said about it?
I listened to the interview again last night and unfortunately was mistaken about the in-depth nature with regard to Circus of Horrors - but it is an invaluable career interview with Tom Weaver taking the actress through her roles from The Baby and the Battleship through to playing Sheila in The Last of Sheila ("I was so excited about being the star of this film, until it turned out I was killed in the opening credits!"), as well as her marriage to the composer Leslie Bricusse. She seems in the interview to be especially fond of the 60s Devil Doll film, and of Oliver Reed in general.

In the 'Circus of Horrors and "Continental" films' section Romain talks about the acid burn makeup not being particularly sophisticated (she has even more sympathy for Oliver Reed's more extensive make up in Curse of the Werewolf later on in the interview!), that they filmed at Billy Smart's Circus at Blackheath in London (apparently where the dead of the Black Death were buried), and that for the film she particularly remembered having to learn how to tame lions, getting in the cage with them and cracking the whip (her male trainer serves as her double in certain shots of the final film!)

She also talks about her love scene with Anton Differing ("these scenes are easier to play when the leading man is at least somewhat attractive!"), and describes her career as basically being being attacked and ravished, or being:

"...the damsel in distress - I must have had something about me!"

Weaver: "Even in the Presley movie (Double Trouble), to get the gun away from you he has to give you a black eye!"

User avatar
Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Mario Bava

#113 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:45 pm

Cheers, col.
I'm not sure was I ever at a Billy Smarts Circus, I remember going to the Bertam Mills circus in my home-town when I was about 8, and being terrified by 'Coco the Clown'!
(which in itself almost made me wary of attending another circus!!)
I seem to recall a Billy Smarts Circus was a regular feature of Christmas tv in the 60s.
'CofH' looks great and had its share of chills and beauties, like 'Blood and Black Lace', but its not in Bava's league.

btw, speaking of the great use of colour in this Bava film, it would be interesting to compare and contrast with John Alton's brilliant use of colours in the colour noir, 'Slightly Scarlet', which is a cert. for my final noir list

User avatar
Yojimbo
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Mario Bava

#114 Post by Yojimbo » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:46 pm

I watched 'Rabid Dogs' a couple of nights ago.
One thing for sure, you could never mistake it for anything other than a 1970s thriller, other than if it was a deliberate pastiche/homage to 1970s thrillers.
I don't know was Bava a fan of Jack Hill films but from the getgo it reminded me, both in style and look, of the best Hill films, and indeed, of such as Jonathan Demme's 'Caged Heat'.

I particularly loved the opening 10 minutes or so, and the last 5 minutes or so, not least the surprise ending, but I thought his efforts in real-time immediacy may have contributed to a certain degree of monotony and longeurs, mainly in the repetitive nature of the conversations and 'antics' of the two 'junior' gang members.
But its still, overall, a fresh and exciting thriller, which caused one to wonder how good it could have been if Bava had the opportunity to 'fine tune' it.
Or, indeed, if he had the opportunity to make more films in the genre, and style

And I wonder does anybody else think the actor playing 'Thirty Two' bore a striking resemblance to the young Kris Kristofferson?
(who, incidentally, is currently on tour in Ireland, and who was interviewed for radio broadcast just a few days ago)
Listening to the commentary track I found myself largely agreeing w

[Mod note: post cuts off here]

User avatar
jsteffe
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Mario Bava

#115 Post by jsteffe » Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:10 pm

Since I missed out on the limited German edition of Blood and Black Lace/Blutige Seide and it's now incredibly expensive, what's the best-looking transfer currently on the market? Is this Australian DVD edition any good?

Stefan Andersson
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:02 am

Re: Mario Bava

#116 Post by Stefan Andersson » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:07 am

Anolis announced a new, very limited edition of Blutige Seide: http://dvdsleuth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
jsteffe
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Mario Bava

#117 Post by jsteffe » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:31 am

Stefan Andersson wrote:Anolis announced a new, very limited edition of Blutige Seide: http://dvdsleuth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You just made my day!

User avatar
Feego
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Mario Bava

#118 Post by Feego » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:21 pm

Has anyone here ever ordered from the store linked to on that blog?

User avatar
Murdoch
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Mario Bava

#119 Post by Murdoch » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:32 am

I was going to, but shipping to the US from what I understood was 13 euros, so I'm going to hold off and hope for a better deal. Which probably won't happen.

User avatar
jsteffe
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Mario Bava

#120 Post by jsteffe » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:45 pm

Stefan Andersson wrote:Anolis announced a new, very limited edition of Blutige Seide: http://dvdsleuth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This new edition does NOT have English subtitles, but it does have the Italian soundtrack with optional German subtitles. I'm still happy with it because it looks markedly better than either VCI release.

EDIT: This new German edition DOES have the English soundtrack, but I think the voices are weak on that one compared to the Italian.

TonyleStephanois
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:28 am
Contact:

Re: Mario Bava

#121 Post by TonyleStephanois » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:38 am

Our A Bay of Blood Blu-ray (and DVD) will be out soon, here are the specs:

- Reversible sleeve with original and newly commissioned art work
- Double-sided fold-out poster
- Collector’s Booklet by Jay Slater, critic and author of Eaten Alive!
- Brand new high definition transfer of the English version of the film (1080p)
- Italian cut of the film
- Original Mono Audio
- Argento! Bava! Fulci! The Giallo Gems of Dardano Sacchetti (1080p)
- Joe Dante on Mario Bava (1080p)
- Shooting a Spaghetti Splatter Classic: Cameraman Gianlorenzo Battaglia on A Bay of Blood (1080p)
- Audio discussion with Tim Lucas, author of Mario Bava: All the Colors of the Dark
- A Bay of Blood Trailers: ‘Carnage’ and ‘Twitch of the Death Nerve’ with commentary by Edgar Wright, director of Shaun of the Dead
- Twitch of the Death Nerve Radio Spots

User avatar
Ovader
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:56 am
Location: Canada

Re:

#122 Post by Ovader » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:24 pm

Person wrote:Tim Lucas' Bava book has been published: Mario Bava: All the Colors of the Dark
Hardcover, cloth bound, gold stamping on front and spine
Dimensions in inches: 10.85w x 11.87h x 2.63d
Dimensions in centimeters: 27.6w x 30.1h x 6.7d
Full-color French-fold laminated dust jacket
Full-color endpapers
1128 Glossy, full-color pages
Binding: stitched, extra-reinforced, round back
12 lbs (5.45 kgs)

$260 USA
$290 Outside USA

(Includes Priority Mail shipping)
Black Sunday Sale price: $100 Off! Dec. 4 - 10 Only

User avatar
JPJ
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:23 am

Re: Mario Bava

#123 Post by JPJ » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:15 am

Back in 2002 or so the pre-order price was $100.I should have grabbed this then.5,5 kgs??THAT'S A FUCKIN MONSTER!!

User avatar
Matt
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: Mario Bava

#124 Post by Matt » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:21 pm

If you were reading a short-ish critical/historical essay about Black Sunday, what would you most like to read about?

User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Mario Bava

#125 Post by knives » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:49 pm

I'm somewhat interest in the historical references in the film. The stylistic things seem pretty solid across his films so I'm not sure if that would work on just the one film, but his use of history to create tension is pretty unique in this film.

Post Reply