1970s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

[GringoTex]

The darling I want to defend is one I didn't even vote for because I watched it after submiting my list: Chabrol's Le Boucher. While most Chabrol films unsettle you from the opening scene, Le Boucher takes great pains to make you feel at ease. It's set in an idyllic French village (ala Hitchcock's Shadow of a Doubt) and Chabrol cast the real villagers in most of the smaller roles. You love the setting and the characters and Chabrol uses long, graceful tracking shots through the village streets to reveal all of its charm, and you never want it to end. Which makes the tragedy you know is coming all the more devastating. Jean Yanne gives an amazing performance, one of the very best I've ever seen. This would probably have made my top 5 had I seen it in time.

[domino harvey]

I can't believe no one else voted for



Just joking, I knew that one was a suicide mission but as far as I'm concerned, the Number 50 spot is born for crazy movies no one else was going to mention.

[Cold Bishop]

Was a mistake made in calculating the Female Prisoner Scorpion films? because I voted for Jailhouse 41, not #401, as I'm certain Michael did also.

[Tom Hagen]

The 1970s List

31. Cries and Whispers (Bergman)

Really, guys? Wow, that one hurts! I am also quite surprised that only one of the four Coppola films cracked the top ten. All hand wringing aside, I wish that I had been a member of the forum earlier so that I could have taken part in the project. I will do my penance by delving head-in to the '80s.

[zedz]

Was a mistake made in calculating the Female Prisoner Scorpion films? because I voted for Jailhouse 41, not #401, as I'm certain Michael did also.

Sorry, didn't look hard enough when entering votes. Jailhouse 41 was the one that got two votes and made the also rans. I'll correct it above.

Kiarostami's Traveller came closest, all appearing in two top tens and that was it)

I hope my vote for the same film, but misspelled , counted.

I may be dumb, but I'm not that dumb! (And I think the spelling is just an American / British variation)

Clearly, availability is an enormous factor with the non-common-as-muck films. I'm sure Spirit of the Beehive would have continued to languish without Criterion (and didn't Celine and Julie improve its position as well, post-BFI?), and I'm sure this amazing film would have made the list if it was available in subbed form. It made my top five on the strength of a single searing encounter about 15 years ago, and when I saw it then, it struck me as the kind of film that could have been as canonical as the early neorealism films if only fate and history had given another roll to their dice.

[Hopscotch]

Whoever voted for The Tree of Wooden Clogs can be my friend.
That's if the film's as beautiful as I remember it being.

[toiletduck!]

I'm a little amazed, but probably shouldn't be, that the Jodorowskys fared so poorly.

Alas, yet another reason I should really participate...

-Toilet Dcuk

[HerrSchreck]

I'm a little amazed, but probably shouldn't be, that the Jodorowskys fared so poorly.

Alas, yet another reason I should really participate.

Another poster who stole words right from my mouth... was thinking the very same thing (including the guilt for not participating), particularly re The Holy Mountain. Thought that this would have been a shoe-in for somewhere at least within the Top 50.

[zedz]

Whoever voted for The Tree of Wooden Clogs can be my friend.
That's if the film's as beautiful as I remember it being.

You have two friends - one of them's me. I saw it last year and it's still lovely.

I'm a little amazed, but probably shouldn't be, that the Jodorowskys fared so poorly.

I'm just as surprised, but I'm no fan. I was actually expecting a large number of films I really don't like to rate highly this time around (the non-show of Star Wars was an even bigger surprise).

Don't forget we have a dedicated thread for darling defending, which I see has already commenced. There are some films I'd love to know more about. One of the most interesting lists submitted was probably the most heavily US-dominated one, but with films rarely mentioned in the vote by others, so I hope the submitter will spread the news about them.

[essrog]

I didn't vote, but I applaud the forum's taste in Altman -- though I would've liked seeing Nashville higher (it was #2 last time), I loved seeing The Long Goodbye move from 76 to 14, and didn't mind MASH, which I find to be overrated, fall off completely.

[Mr Sheldrake]

I put Clogs at #21 on my list. Beautiful movie. I think Region 1 DVD availability has a great impact on these types of lists. My #1, The Mother and the Whore, would place higher if people could only see it. Wender's Alice in the Cities and Kings of the Road should also rise in estimation.

I'm surprised with the Chinatown showing even though I see I made it my #1 Hollywood movie. In all honesty, I would put the whole Fassbinder 70s output as #1. For some reason I've never figured out, his movies mean more to me than any other director's. I have to keep coming back to them.

[Floyd]

The shame in forgetting to submit my list on time. My top 5 in order included Edvard Munch, Gates of Heaven, The Killing of a Chinese Bookie, Noroit and The Brood. At least a few made it.

[Awesome Welles]

One of the most interesting lists submitted was probably the most heavily US-dominated one, but with films rarely mentioned in the vote by others, so I hope the submitter will spread the news about them.

They won't know it's them unless you say. What were the titles? I think I had one obscure film but want to check my notes on it before I defend it in the darlings thread.

[zedz]

One of the most interesting lists submitted was probably the most heavily US-dominated one, but with films rarely mentioned in the vote by others, so I hope the submitter will spread the news about them.

They won't know it's them unless you say. What were the titles? I think I had one obscure film but want to check my notes on it before I defend it in the darlings thread.

He's already posted in the darlings thread (Perkins Cobb, take a bow): more than 60% American, but 22 of his nominations were unseconded and a further 14 didn't make the final 100, so it's quite a different take on the decade from a Hollywood perspective than we got otherwise.

[Perkins Cobb]

Yes, I seem to have halted the conversation in that other thread rather ably. A 60s or an 80s list would undoubtedly reverse the geographical ratio, but that's what the 70s is all about: heroic termite efforts from the margins of New Hollywood (or off-Hollywood) rattling around in the dustbin of obscurity.

Hence my forum handle, incidentally.

[souvenir]

Yes, I seem to have halted the conversation in that other thread rather ably.

Well, it's a defend your darlings thread and you just listed yours. It's difficult to determine why you chose what you did (and therefore discuss the picks) simply by reading the titles.

[tryavna]

So I was the only one who voted for Lisa and the Devil. Not even the recent release of the Anchor Bay sets and Tim Lucas' masterpiece of a book could change anything. Thanks a lot!

You're not alone, Michael. The total absence of Lisa and the Devil from this list makes it the first time that I really wish I had participated. It, along with no-shows The Wicker Man, The Go-Between, and Soldier of Orange, would have been very high in a list for me. (But based on what Zedz has said, I doubt that my list would not have caused any of those films to make it onto the list.)

BTW, Domino, I'm another person who is completely unable to comprehend the appeal of Spirit of the Beehive. (At the same time, I also can't understand your love for the sleeping-pill known as Tout Va Bien.)

[zedz]

no-shows The Wicker Man, The Go-Between, and Soldier of Orange . . . (But based on what Zedz has said, I doubt that my list would not have caused any of those films to make it onto the list.)

Not a whisper of the latter two (Losey's reputation seems to be at a particularly low ebb at this juncture), but several votes for The Wicker Man, just not high enough on individual lists to put it over the top. I included it on my list last time around, but it was elbowed off by a flood of new titles this time. Even a number one placing for Lisa and the Devil wouldn't have worked, but a top ten one for Wicker Man would have - just!

[denti alligator]

Finally watched Lisa and the Devil and was unimpressed. What am I missing?

[tryavna]

Finally watched Lisa and the Devil and was unimpressed. What am I missing?

Where to begin...? For me, it represents the apotheosis of Bava's surrealist tendencies. The story is, of course, basically a nightmare that has come alive, and Bava handles it with the same fever-dream logic that you find in Welles' adaptation of The Trial and much of Bunuel's work. (In fact, I would describe it as what a genre horror movie would look like if Bunuel had directed it.) The central conceit -- that of a group of damned souls who continually reenact the events that damned them, their hell therefore being one of their own making -- is a particularly creepy one, and although done numerous times before, it has never been done better. There's pitch-perfect use of Rodrigo's concierto, particularly during the failed rape scene (another one that calls Bunuel's work to mind). And there are some fantastic flourishes here and there: the gliding ghost/reanimated corpse of Alida Valli, the intercutting between the dummies and the real actors, and Telly Savalas' inspired performance as Satan himself.

It may boil down, however, to whether or not you like Bava -- and whether you prefer his early or late work. Personally, I prefer his later, more nihilistic stuff. And Lisa and the Devil is that apogee of that period/style. Perhaps Michael would care to add his own views?

Hmmm.... That's interesting about The Wicker Man, Zedz. Perhaps I should have voted after all.

[colinr0380]

Sorry domino, I didn't manage to place Tout Va Bien on my list - I went for Letter To Jane instead!

[Michael Kerpan]

Sorry domino, I didn't manage to place Tout Va Bien on my list - I went for Letter To Jane instead!

Letter To Jane ?

(The only Godard seen so far I dislike even more than Week End). ;~}

[Michael]

Finally watched Lisa and the Devil and was unimpressed. What am I missing?

Give it some time. I think it will come back to you. Two, three, four viewings, the film keeps spilling out more riches. How can anyone not be impressed by Bava's use of space, especially in the beginning when Elke gets lost in Spanish alleys? When Elke first meets Alida's son in front of the mansion after that long ride in the car, pay close attention to his face as his eyes first lay on her - the beam, the glow because he sees the lost love in Elke. Very easy to miss and uneffective upon first viewing. But once you've seen the film, familiar with the story, the tragedy of the dead woman, that look the guy gives will touch you. A long bitter breath of melancholy follows, very Vertigo like.

The music box has figurines, each one representing each main character of the film, when Elke stares at it, that extreme close up of her green eyes. We become hypnotized as much as she's hypnotized. The music, her eyes, the circling figurines.

God, there's so much more. Here we have a lollypop-sucking devil trapping the world where the living and the dead crashing into each other, trying to find some love or reclaim it or relive it. I love Bava, he made many masterpieces and I find it impossible to pick the best one. But Lisa and the Devil is definitely his most emotional, his most moving film. Argento, the most popular Italian horror director, has not reached the very zenith of Lisa yet, probably never will.

Bava's Vertigo. Bava's INLAND EMPIRE if that makes any sense to you.

[colinr0380]

Letter To Jane ?

(The only Godard seen so far I dislike even more than Week End).

I haven't really changed my mind much from my initial post on seeing the film - I find it annoying and fascinating in equal measure, if that makes any sense! I find that I keep constantly thinking of the film while Tout Va Bien, which I feel is a fine film in its own right, just has not captured me in the same way.

For the record I love Weekend ("My Hermès handbag!" ), though it might mean a lot to me also because it is tied in with personal experiences. It was the first Godard film I saw at 15 - perhaps inadvisedly I watched it on television the night before going on a trip with my school to France to do a tour of the Normandy landing beaches and the Caen Peace Museum! I remember being a little concerned at the possibility of random violence, enormous traffic jams and militant cannibals roaming the countryside - so much so I remember being very shy about talking to any actual French people!

It actually remains my one trip 'abroad' (unless we're counting Wales and Scotland as separate countries! ), but it was worth it for the chance a few years later to be able to say that I had stood in the same area that the bookend scenes for Saving Private Ryan were filmed! (The school did a tour of the various war graves - the German one was understandably quite austere and low key, the British one was next to a main road(!) and the American one was the grandest, even with a sea view! While I feel the bookends in Saving Private Ryan are a bit of a filmic cheat - they pretend they are the flashback of one character and then reveal themselves to have been from another character's perspective all along - the one thing I thought was really well done was the transition from hearing the waves in the distance, something that I remember being able to hear in the cemetery for real during my visit there, into the D-Day landings. It is a little moment but would likely resonate with those audience members who had visited that site).

[Michael Kerpan]

Oh well, I love Tout va bien (or at least like it a whole lot) and found Letter to Jane beyond unbearable. If Week End (or LtJ) had been my first Godard film, there would likely have been no second one. ;~}