The Pre-1920s List: Discussion and Suggestions (Decade Project Vol. 4)
Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:19 pm
VOTING CLOSED. RESULTS CAN BE FOUND HERE.
Welcome to the Lists Project Vol. 4, everyone! If you are reading this sentence, you are eligible to participate in our forum's latest decades list project exploring films from the dawn of cinema, or more precisely, all those released prior to 1920. If you know anyone adventurous enough--on or off the forum--that you think would also enjoy participating, feel free to invite them as well.
Please PM me your list of what you believe are the top 50 films from this period toward the end of the project. I will send confirmation that I have received your list after I have tabulated it. If you haven't heard from me within a day, you should follow up with me to make sure that I received your list. You may feel that you could compile a list of 50 favorite films from this period much earlier than the deadline, but it's still highly recommended that you engage in the discussions here. Don't keep your favorites a secret, and always be open to suggestions from others!
THE RULES
1) Each individual list is to comprise no more or less than 50 films, ranked in your order of preference (with no ties). If you haven't yet seen 50 films from this period that you think are genuinely great (or even if you have), please take advantage of the resources listed below and participate in the ongoing discussions to find films that you can be proud to put on your list.
2) Anyone participating in this project should plan to submit a list by the Round 1 deadline. After this point, I will publish some preliminary results that will not reveal how each film has performed, but will at least make it apparent which films are orphans (i.e. those that have received only one vote, and so receive no points in the tabulation process). During the week that follows (Round 2) all those who are interested in participating further may seek out the orphaned films (or anything else they didn't fit in before the Round 1 deadline) and make revisions to their lists as they see fit, up until the Round 2 deadline. After this point, I will publish both the Round 1 and Round 2 results, so that we can see what, if any, impact the additional round has had. NOTE: This is a trial run of the two-round process, in an attempt to make this whole list project thing a more worthwhile experience for everyone. If it does not appear to be having this effect, I reserve the right to put an end to it abruptly and to erase all record of it ever having existed.
3) Any feature film, serial, documentary, experimental film, or short film released prior to 1920 (so like 1880-1919) is eligible.
4) The date given on IMDb is the relevant date for determining a film's year of release, even when it's clearly wrong (unless a special case is made below). If the film is not on IMDb and you say it was released during this period, I'll take your word for it.
5) In certain cases, it may be appropriate for films that are technically separate to be combined, or for films that are technically combined to be separated. In such cases, you may vote for either a part or the whole, but bear in mind that all votes will be competing against each other (e.g. a vote for Ivan the Terrible Pt. 1 will not count toward the vote for Ivan the Terrible in the final tally). Generally, if multiple films are allowed to be combined for voting purposes, you should probably vote for them that way unless you are strongly opposed to doing so. The most common cases:
• Single-director multi-part films for which each segment was released separately (e.g. Feuillade's serials, Lang's two-part epics) may be considered as a single film. Films included in trilogies may not be combined.
• Variant edits: For films that exist in multiple versions (e.g. Welles' Mr. Arkadin, Rivette's Out 1), all votes that don't specify a "secondary" version will be counted toward the "primary" version.
• Portmanteau films: Each of the individual segments and the film as a whole are all separately eligible.
We may occasionally need to make a special case related to rule 4 or 5. If you are seriously considering including a film on your list that you have a question about in this regard, bring it up in this thread and we'll iron it out. However, I will not make any further exceptions during the last week of the project.
For more details about rules and procedures, please refer here.
Finally, though it is not strictly required, it is recommended that you include titles for films that you discuss in this thread in bold, as it will help the film titles stick out amidst all of the other information that will inevitably pile up in this thread. If you particularly like a film, you might even highlight it in a shiny color. See how much that caught the eye? You're going to be thinking about that for days now.
ELIGIBILITY – REMINDERS / SPECIAL CASES
The following are examples of multi-part films/series that are eligible to be voted for as a single film: Fantômas, Les Vampires, Judex, The Spiders, Who Pays?, Homunculus, Westinghouse Works
In some of these cases, you may feel strongly that you only want to vote for one part of the whole. You can do this, but again, just remember that all votes will be competing against each other (e.g. for all intents and purposes, Fantômas and each of the five individual episodes of Fantômas are six completely separate films). Why you would only vote for a single episode of Fantômas is beyond me--this is just a theoretical example.
Even though the second part of The Spiders came out in 1920, the whole thing is eligible now.
All that currently survives of the serial Homunculus is portions of two episodes. Feel free to vote for all of this surviving footage simply as Homunculus.
The following films may be cited as pre-1920s releases in some places, but not on IMDb, and so are not eligible for this list: The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
RESOURCES
A list of all films that received votes during our prior pre-1920s project
(Note: I have not gone to the effort of citing all the random collections where these films can be found, but I do know this information for the most part. I figure that people asking about this instead of being able to look it up might prompt some useful discussion.)
IMDb list of eligible films that placed in the forum's first silent era list
IMDb list of eligible films that placed in the forum's second silent era list
IMDb version of our prior pre-1920s list (all compiled by TMDaines)
Past Forum Discussions
Discussion from the Forum's Prior Pre-1920s Project
Defending of Sad Pandas from the Forum's Prior Pre-1920s Project
Discussion from the Forum's Genre List Projects
Discussion from the Forum's Shorts List Project
Guides Within This Thread
Do you feel you have an especially informed opinion about the work during the pre-1920s from a particular director, country, genre, etc.? Many people here would greatly appreciate your taking the time to prepare a guide for navigating through all that's available. (Though they do not necessarily need to be comprehensive.) Guides are especially welcome for extremely prolific directors/movements, or to summarize availability for films (such as shorts) that are often hidden away on releases for other films or only available on the web. Past examples: Director Guide, Country Guide, Genre Guide, DVD Availability Guide
Alice Guy-Blaché (Satori)
Chaplin at Keystone (knives)
Chaplin Mutuals (matrixschmatrix)
Christmas films (knives)
Early Women Filmmakers (Emak-Bakia)
Eruption of Mt. Pelee (Minkin)
Kafka goes to the movies Disc 1 Disc 2 (Tommaso)
Pre-revolutionary Russian films Vols. 1-2 Vols. 3-6 Vols. 7-10 (zedz)
AWAITING FURTHER GUIDES
External Resources
The European Film Gateway, or rather its EFG 1914 project, a cooperation of many European archives for showing films about or made around the time of World War I. Many documentary films of course, but also a lot of fine early feature films you've never heard of, especially from Germany and Italy. And many of these are completely unrelated to the war, so there are adventure films, dramas, comedies etc. to be found here, too. (Tommaso)
The Cineteca del Museo Nazionale del Cinema Vimeo Channel. A very fine collection of early Italian cinema, ranging from documentary/local films to feature films. (Tommaso)
In a celebration of 100 years of Japanese animation, Tokyo's National Museum has posted many early examples of such including a couple of eligible films. There's English subtitles for everything even if the website is in Japanese. (knives)
AWAITING FURTHER SUGGESTIONS
Recommended Reading
AWAITING SUGGESTIONS
THE NEW AND IMPROVED SPOTLIGHT SECTION
Remember that part in the movie Spotlight where all the reporters sat around and said "Hey, you hold your nose and watch this movie that you wouldn't otherwise want to watch and I guess I'll do the same for you"? Oh wait, that's not how it happened at all. No, those reporters went out and put all their heart into their work and gave long important speeches about it. In honor of their garrulousness, this section is now reserved for links to any and all posts on a particular film that are 500 words or longer. Why 500 words? Because when I used to be in the biz, I remember my editor throwing that number around a lot. Sorry folks, but we're living in a post-Spotlight world now, and the old ways just aren't going to cut it anymore.
The Blue Bird (Maurice Tourneur, 1918) (matrixschmatrix)
Cabiria (Giovanni Pastrone, 1914) (matrixschmatrix)
La Cigarette (Germaine Dulac, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
Girls Taking Time Checks (G.W. Bitzer, 1904) (Minkin)
Hell's Hinges (William Hart, 1916) (matrixschmatrix)
Hypocrites (Lois Weber, 1915) (Emak-Bakia)
Intolerance (D.W. Griffith, 1916) (matrixschmatrix)
J'accuse (Abel Gance, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
A Man There Was (Victor Sjöström, 1917) matrixschmatrix)
The Matrimaniac (Paul Powell, 1916) (matrixschmatrix)
The Mysterious X (Benjamin Christensen, 1914) (matrixschmatrix)
Nerven (Robert Reinert, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Oyster Princess (Ernst Lubitsch, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
Die Pest in Florenz (Otto Rippert, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Poor Little Rich Girl (Maurice Tourneur, 1917) (matrixschmatrix)
Præsidenten (Carl Dreyer, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Sinking of the Lusitania (Winsor McCay, 1918) (matrixschmatrix)
Sir Arne's Treasure (Mauritz Stiller, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Spiders (Fritz Lang, 1919-20) (matrixschmatrix)
True Heart Susie (D.W. Griffith, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
Les Vampires (Louis Feuillade, 1915-16) (matrixschmatrix)
Wagon Tracks (William Hart, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Wishing Ring (Maurice Tourneur, 1914) (matrixschmatrix)
***Please PM me if you have any suggestions for additions to/deletions from this first post.***
Welcome to the Lists Project Vol. 4, everyone! If you are reading this sentence, you are eligible to participate in our forum's latest decades list project exploring films from the dawn of cinema, or more precisely, all those released prior to 1920. If you know anyone adventurous enough--on or off the forum--that you think would also enjoy participating, feel free to invite them as well.
Please PM me your list of what you believe are the top 50 films from this period toward the end of the project. I will send confirmation that I have received your list after I have tabulated it. If you haven't heard from me within a day, you should follow up with me to make sure that I received your list. You may feel that you could compile a list of 50 favorite films from this period much earlier than the deadline, but it's still highly recommended that you engage in the discussions here. Don't keep your favorites a secret, and always be open to suggestions from others!
THE RULES
1) Each individual list is to comprise no more or less than 50 films, ranked in your order of preference (with no ties). If you haven't yet seen 50 films from this period that you think are genuinely great (or even if you have), please take advantage of the resources listed below and participate in the ongoing discussions to find films that you can be proud to put on your list.
2) Anyone participating in this project should plan to submit a list by the Round 1 deadline. After this point, I will publish some preliminary results that will not reveal how each film has performed, but will at least make it apparent which films are orphans (i.e. those that have received only one vote, and so receive no points in the tabulation process). During the week that follows (Round 2) all those who are interested in participating further may seek out the orphaned films (or anything else they didn't fit in before the Round 1 deadline) and make revisions to their lists as they see fit, up until the Round 2 deadline. After this point, I will publish both the Round 1 and Round 2 results, so that we can see what, if any, impact the additional round has had. NOTE: This is a trial run of the two-round process, in an attempt to make this whole list project thing a more worthwhile experience for everyone. If it does not appear to be having this effect, I reserve the right to put an end to it abruptly and to erase all record of it ever having existed.
3) Any feature film, serial, documentary, experimental film, or short film released prior to 1920 (so like 1880-1919) is eligible.
4) The date given on IMDb is the relevant date for determining a film's year of release, even when it's clearly wrong (unless a special case is made below). If the film is not on IMDb and you say it was released during this period, I'll take your word for it.
5) In certain cases, it may be appropriate for films that are technically separate to be combined, or for films that are technically combined to be separated. In such cases, you may vote for either a part or the whole, but bear in mind that all votes will be competing against each other (e.g. a vote for Ivan the Terrible Pt. 1 will not count toward the vote for Ivan the Terrible in the final tally). Generally, if multiple films are allowed to be combined for voting purposes, you should probably vote for them that way unless you are strongly opposed to doing so. The most common cases:
• Single-director multi-part films for which each segment was released separately (e.g. Feuillade's serials, Lang's two-part epics) may be considered as a single film. Films included in trilogies may not be combined.
• Variant edits: For films that exist in multiple versions (e.g. Welles' Mr. Arkadin, Rivette's Out 1), all votes that don't specify a "secondary" version will be counted toward the "primary" version.
• Portmanteau films: Each of the individual segments and the film as a whole are all separately eligible.
We may occasionally need to make a special case related to rule 4 or 5. If you are seriously considering including a film on your list that you have a question about in this regard, bring it up in this thread and we'll iron it out. However, I will not make any further exceptions during the last week of the project.
For more details about rules and procedures, please refer here.
Finally, though it is not strictly required, it is recommended that you include titles for films that you discuss in this thread in bold, as it will help the film titles stick out amidst all of the other information that will inevitably pile up in this thread. If you particularly like a film, you might even highlight it in a shiny color. See how much that caught the eye? You're going to be thinking about that for days now.
ELIGIBILITY – REMINDERS / SPECIAL CASES
The following are examples of multi-part films/series that are eligible to be voted for as a single film: Fantômas, Les Vampires, Judex, The Spiders, Who Pays?, Homunculus, Westinghouse Works
In some of these cases, you may feel strongly that you only want to vote for one part of the whole. You can do this, but again, just remember that all votes will be competing against each other (e.g. for all intents and purposes, Fantômas and each of the five individual episodes of Fantômas are six completely separate films). Why you would only vote for a single episode of Fantômas is beyond me--this is just a theoretical example.
Even though the second part of The Spiders came out in 1920, the whole thing is eligible now.
All that currently survives of the serial Homunculus is portions of two episodes. Feel free to vote for all of this surviving footage simply as Homunculus.
The following films may be cited as pre-1920s releases in some places, but not on IMDb, and so are not eligible for this list: The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
RESOURCES
A list of all films that received votes during our prior pre-1920s project
(Note: I have not gone to the effort of citing all the random collections where these films can be found, but I do know this information for the most part. I figure that people asking about this instead of being able to look it up might prompt some useful discussion.)
IMDb list of eligible films that placed in the forum's first silent era list
IMDb list of eligible films that placed in the forum's second silent era list
IMDb version of our prior pre-1920s list (all compiled by TMDaines)
Past Forum Discussions
Discussion from the Forum's Prior Pre-1920s Project
Defending of Sad Pandas from the Forum's Prior Pre-1920s Project
Discussion from the Forum's Genre List Projects
Discussion from the Forum's Shorts List Project
Guides Within This Thread
Do you feel you have an especially informed opinion about the work during the pre-1920s from a particular director, country, genre, etc.? Many people here would greatly appreciate your taking the time to prepare a guide for navigating through all that's available. (Though they do not necessarily need to be comprehensive.) Guides are especially welcome for extremely prolific directors/movements, or to summarize availability for films (such as shorts) that are often hidden away on releases for other films or only available on the web. Past examples: Director Guide, Country Guide, Genre Guide, DVD Availability Guide
Alice Guy-Blaché (Satori)
Chaplin at Keystone (knives)
Chaplin Mutuals (matrixschmatrix)
Christmas films (knives)
Early Women Filmmakers (Emak-Bakia)
Eruption of Mt. Pelee (Minkin)
Kafka goes to the movies Disc 1 Disc 2 (Tommaso)
Pre-revolutionary Russian films Vols. 1-2 Vols. 3-6 Vols. 7-10 (zedz)
AWAITING FURTHER GUIDES
External Resources
The European Film Gateway, or rather its EFG 1914 project, a cooperation of many European archives for showing films about or made around the time of World War I. Many documentary films of course, but also a lot of fine early feature films you've never heard of, especially from Germany and Italy. And many of these are completely unrelated to the war, so there are adventure films, dramas, comedies etc. to be found here, too. (Tommaso)
The Cineteca del Museo Nazionale del Cinema Vimeo Channel. A very fine collection of early Italian cinema, ranging from documentary/local films to feature films. (Tommaso)
In a celebration of 100 years of Japanese animation, Tokyo's National Museum has posted many early examples of such including a couple of eligible films. There's English subtitles for everything even if the website is in Japanese. (knives)
AWAITING FURTHER SUGGESTIONS
Recommended Reading
AWAITING SUGGESTIONS
THE NEW AND IMPROVED SPOTLIGHT SECTION
Remember that part in the movie Spotlight where all the reporters sat around and said "Hey, you hold your nose and watch this movie that you wouldn't otherwise want to watch and I guess I'll do the same for you"? Oh wait, that's not how it happened at all. No, those reporters went out and put all their heart into their work and gave long important speeches about it. In honor of their garrulousness, this section is now reserved for links to any and all posts on a particular film that are 500 words or longer. Why 500 words? Because when I used to be in the biz, I remember my editor throwing that number around a lot. Sorry folks, but we're living in a post-Spotlight world now, and the old ways just aren't going to cut it anymore.
The Blue Bird (Maurice Tourneur, 1918) (matrixschmatrix)
Cabiria (Giovanni Pastrone, 1914) (matrixschmatrix)
La Cigarette (Germaine Dulac, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
Girls Taking Time Checks (G.W. Bitzer, 1904) (Minkin)
Hell's Hinges (William Hart, 1916) (matrixschmatrix)
Hypocrites (Lois Weber, 1915) (Emak-Bakia)
Intolerance (D.W. Griffith, 1916) (matrixschmatrix)
J'accuse (Abel Gance, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
A Man There Was (Victor Sjöström, 1917) matrixschmatrix)
The Matrimaniac (Paul Powell, 1916) (matrixschmatrix)
The Mysterious X (Benjamin Christensen, 1914) (matrixschmatrix)
Nerven (Robert Reinert, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Oyster Princess (Ernst Lubitsch, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
Die Pest in Florenz (Otto Rippert, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Poor Little Rich Girl (Maurice Tourneur, 1917) (matrixschmatrix)
Præsidenten (Carl Dreyer, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Sinking of the Lusitania (Winsor McCay, 1918) (matrixschmatrix)
Sir Arne's Treasure (Mauritz Stiller, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Spiders (Fritz Lang, 1919-20) (matrixschmatrix)
True Heart Susie (D.W. Griffith, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
Les Vampires (Louis Feuillade, 1915-16) (matrixschmatrix)
Wagon Tracks (William Hart, 1919) (matrixschmatrix)
The Wishing Ring (Maurice Tourneur, 1914) (matrixschmatrix)
***Please PM me if you have any suggestions for additions to/deletions from this first post.***