1960s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

An ongoing survey of the Criterion Forum membership to create lists of the best films of each decade and genre.
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TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#551 Post by TMDaines » Fri May 24, 2013 1:42 pm

Sadly not. Like I said, not too many timed transcriptions get made for German films either, which means they're less likely to be given an English translation in the fansubbing communities.

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#552 Post by Tommaso » Fri May 24, 2013 2:00 pm

You're right, of course. My comment was more with Lubitsch's statement about the film's reputation in mind, which I don't doubt, though I haven't watched the film yet. But it's telling (again) that such an apparently important film is so neglected. I actually thought that the situation would be a little better in this respect with films from the 50s onwards, but clearly I was wrong. I should have known better, though, given the lack of releases of the truly important among Käutner's films from the 50s.

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swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#553 Post by swo17 » Sat May 25, 2013 3:09 am

Yuri Ilyenko

A Spring for the Thirsty (1965)
St. John's Eve/The Eve of Ivan Kupalo (1968)

(I believe these are both available on unsubbed, not necessarily very good quality DVDs from Russia. However, fansubs are circulating online.)

Forgive me for posting this so late in the game, but I only became aware of this director earlier in the week when one of you wonderful people included a film of his on your list. Ilyenko had only two films this decade and both are only about 70 minutes long, so you might still find a chance to fit him in over the next two days. It was pretty much love at first sight for me. Ilyenko was Parajanov's cinematographer on Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors and this fact will be abundantly clear to anyone watching these films who is familiar with that one. A Spring for the Thirsty is the more clearly subdued of the two (though admittedly, a train derailment would look subdued compared to what was to follow) but it being quieter should not be mistaken for it being less powerful. It's a beautiful, haunting, and puzzling work, though perhaps a bit difficult to discuss as it carries itself primarily on its visual poetry.

His next film is, I believe, most commonly known as The Eve of Ivan Kupalo, which is a title that sounds nice and Russian but frankly doesn't make a lot of sense. It's based on the Gogol story St. John's Eve, which was also the inspiration for Mussorgsky's "Night on Bald Mountain." Mix the Fantasia interpretation of that piece with a healthy dollop of Medvedkin's Happiness and maybe a bit of the Three Stooges, and you might have some idea of part of what you're in for here. The Parajanov feel is also very present, though on acid, and at times, seemingly with the benefit of zero gravity. Consider some of these stills (not plot spoilers, but spoilers I suppose of some of the film's finest shots):
SpoilerShow
Image Image
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Other than his first '70s film, it's apparently mostly downhill from here, but I still have a hard time thinking of Ilyenko as anything but a great director even if only on the strength of these two films. It's going to be a bit rough sorting out my feelings for them in so little time, but I can guarantee that at least one of them will be making my list.

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TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#554 Post by TMDaines » Sat May 25, 2013 3:35 am

Both of these are in the English-subtitled Ukrainian Cinematic Art Classics boxsets that I posted about a while back. I know several of us have now got hold of them for free (and I still have a couple of spares of the Mykolaichuk and Illienko). I wanted to watch both of these, but my missus has been away and we've been going through these together. Judging by the rips online, and the standard of the discs I've watched so far, I imagine the transfers in the boxsets are a big improvement on the available rips - and of course, they have the original Ukrainian audio. I'll check Ivan later, as I have it with me.

Did you watch these in Russian or Ukrainian, swo? Those screenshots of Ivan look like they were cropped from Scope too.

Have you seen Annychka (Ivchenko - 1968), swo? If you like Ukrainian Poetic Cinema on the whole, then I think you'll like that. It's probably going to make my list.

bamwc2
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:54 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#555 Post by bamwc2 » Sat May 25, 2013 7:56 am

TMDaines wrote:I wanted to watch both of these, but my missus has been away and we've been going through these together.
I'm quite jealous of you for finding a partner whose tastes mesh with yours. I'm afraid that my wife's idea of an art film is the 2000 remake of Sweet November. If we watch a movie at home together, it's usually something from Ghibli or a recent Hollywood blockbuster.

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TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#556 Post by TMDaines » Sat May 25, 2013 8:17 am

Hah! It's not so much that our tastes mesh, but she pretty much leaves it up to me to decide what to watch. I then take the blame if something doesn't go down well, but the credit if I choose well. Thankfully, she's pretty open-minded so anything gets a chance (apart from animation). She's Ukrainian so she's obliged to watch these with me, if she wants to get on my back for not having studied Ukrainian properly.

bamwc2
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:54 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#557 Post by bamwc2 » Sat May 25, 2013 8:31 am

Ah, that sounds a bit like our relationship as well. My wife was born in Taiwan (though her family emigrated to the US when she was an infant), so she'll give most Chinese dramas a chance. If left to her own devices, however, her viewing history would consist almost exclusively of the latest Hollywood rom-coms (even though she's usually unhappy with them by the end) and Jane Austen adaptations.

I hope that I don't come off as sounding sexist in saying all of this. Of course both men and women can have either good or bad taste. Her's just strikes me as particularly terrible. It's a running joke with us that she agrees with.

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swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#558 Post by swo17 » Sat May 25, 2013 10:29 am

TMDaines wrote:Did you watch these in Russian or Ukrainian, swo? Those screenshots of Ivan look like they were cropped from Scope too.

Have you seen Annychka (Ivchenko - 1968), swo? If you like Ukrainian Poetic Cinema on the whole, then I think you'll like that. It's probably going to make my list.
I wouldn't know the difference, but supposedly it was in Russian. And probably cropped. And generally looking like pixelized VHS. That's great to hear that there's a better source. (Before I made my initial post, I searched the forum for any mention of Ilyenko but it didn't turn up your variant spelling.)

Haven't seen the Ivchenko and I don't see where it might be available anywhere. EDIT: I see now it's on the Mykolaychuk set from Ukraine, but I'm unfortunately not going to have a chance to get that before the deadline.

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Siddon
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 7:44 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#559 Post by Siddon » Sat May 25, 2013 6:06 pm

Just finished my list
France 13
Japan 8
UK 7
USA 5
Sweden 5
Italy 3
Canada 2
Mexico/Spain 2
Germany 1
South Africa 1
Yugoslavia 1
India 1
Russia 1

I had no repeating directors in my top fifteen, though the first one to repeat didn't do so in a genre that typically does well in these contests.

One director made up six spots on my list but doesn't show up until practically the mid-point (24), just edging out a director who made 5 spots on my list.

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YnEoS
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:30 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#560 Post by YnEoS » Sat May 25, 2013 8:17 pm

So I'm probably going to be watching films right up until the deadline probably, so what's the last possible minute we have to submit lists?

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swo17
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#561 Post by swo17 » Sat May 25, 2013 8:21 pm

swo17 wrote:Lists (or any revisions to your lists, if you've already submitted one) are due by the end of the day Sunday. More specifically, I will wake up Monday morning (maybe 7-8am MDT) and post results for all lists that I have received by that point.

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YnEoS
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:30 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#562 Post by YnEoS » Sat May 25, 2013 8:59 pm

Ah sorry, should've looked around a bit more.

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Shrew
The Untamed One
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:22 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#563 Post by Shrew » Sun May 26, 2013 1:07 pm

U.S....14
France...14
Japan...9
Czech...5
Italy...2
Spain...1
Sweden...1
HK... 1
USSR...1
Hungary...1
India...1

Less diverse than I thought it might be, but definitely much more than when I started (very Gallic-centric). The big find was Czech cinema, of which I had only seen Daisies (which didn't make my list). My biggest regrets were not getting to any Yoshida or Rivette films from the decade, because I have to mentally gird myself to watch films longer than 150 mins. Instead, I spent my girding energy and time finally getting around to watching all of Lawrence of Arabia. Which, um. Is long.

Alas, next time.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#564 Post by zedz » Sun May 26, 2013 4:02 pm

Shrew wrote:My biggest regrets were not getting to any Yoshida or Rivette films from the decade, because I have to mentally gird myself to watch films longer than 150 mins. Instead, I spent my girding energy and time finally getting around to watching all of Lawrence of Arabia. Which, um. Is long.
Sorry you wasted your time on plodding Lawrence, but you may have been grievously misinformed about Yoshida: there's only one film longer than two hours.

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#565 Post by Tommaso » Sun May 26, 2013 4:12 pm

Yes, and Rivette's "La religieuse" (which is on my list) is only 135 min., too. I had "Lawrence" on my list at the beginning, and still consider it a great film, but with so much competition - the most since the 20s and 30s lists - I had to drop it in the end.

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Cold Bishop
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 9:45 pm
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#566 Post by Cold Bishop » Sun May 26, 2013 4:23 pm

zedz wrote:misinformed about Yoshida: there's only one film longer than two hours.
And probably not the best film to start with, masterpiece status or not.

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swo17
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#567 Post by swo17 » Sun May 26, 2013 4:32 pm

By my math, there is still time to watch, say, the majority of Yoshida's '60s films before the absolute deadline, so long as you don't need any sleep.

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Shrew
The Untamed One
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#568 Post by Shrew » Sun May 26, 2013 6:31 pm

Out of shame, I might try to watch Yoshida's The Affair tonight. If Arrested Development is terrible.

But seriously, Yoshida and Rivette hold enough interest for me that I'll get around to watching them at some point. For me, these list projects are a chance to pick up previously unheard of wealth (and occasional loads of pyrite), but also to check off certain fearsome beasts of the canon that I've never gotten around to. Case in point, I'll check out Paris Belongs to Us (and The Nun, if I can find it) at some point anyway, but I needed some extra motivation to get through Lawrence.

The 60s are a rough decade for runtime, I feel. And I tend to be biased toward the short end (so hurray for the Czech and (most of) the Japanese New Wave). I think I have only 4 films significantly over two hours on my list (though there are more around the 120-130 range).

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Wu.Qinghua
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:31 pm

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#569 Post by Wu.Qinghua » Sun May 26, 2013 6:35 pm

Hehe. Top 5 countries here:
Japan - 7
Yugoslavia - 5 (Black Wave films scored most points by far here, I guess)
GDR - 5
Brazil - 5
Cuba - 5
...
And 1 for Senegal, of course.
Last edited by Wu.Qinghua on Sun May 26, 2013 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#570 Post by knives » Sun May 26, 2013 6:36 pm

I'm in the same boat where 90% of the time after an hour I just cannot not gather any interest in a film. That said Rivette really knows how to make those three hours seem like twenty minutes.

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Wu.Qinghua
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:31 pm

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#571 Post by Wu.Qinghua » Sun May 26, 2013 7:22 pm

Makavejev's 'Man's not a Bird' is my favourite film of the decade and my last minute spotlight (no need for putting it on the first page though). Maybe someone else would like to throw some votes in, so it won't stay orphaned?

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#572 Post by knives » Sun May 26, 2013 7:24 pm

Unfortunately I threw my hat to a different Makavejev film so you're not alone in the love.

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Wu.Qinghua
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:31 pm

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#573 Post by Wu.Qinghua » Sun May 26, 2013 7:30 pm

Oh. But I'm pretty sure I've also voted for the film you voted for ... (That's the Makavejev in this case)

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#574 Post by Tommaso » Sun May 26, 2013 8:05 pm

I was pretty happy in any case to see that in quite a few of the country-sorted lists there was a Yugoslavian film included. Makaveyev, naturally. Good to see that the wonderful Eclipse set has made some impact. I only hope that the votes won't get too widely spread among the three films so that at least one of them will make the final list. My choice was "Innocence Unprotected", for no particular reason, actually. "The Case of the Missing Switchboard Operator" would have been equally good. Or indeed "Man's like a bird", though that one's still a bit more within the 'range of the usual' (well, not really true).

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TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
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Re: 1960s List Discussion and Suggestions

#575 Post by TMDaines » Sun May 26, 2013 8:19 pm

I never understand why people say I voted for x (and thus imply that they were obliged not to vote for y by the same director). Surely you just vote for the best fifty films, regardless of whether that means they were directed by ten, twenty or fifty different men? Auteur theory running wild.

Anyway, I've had a good day of film watching. As swo is seven hours behind us, I'll do my final list in the morning before he shall awake.

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