Eclipse Series 10: Silent Ozu—Three Family Comedies

Discuss DVDs released in the Eclipse and Essential Art House lines and the films on them.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#151 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:26 pm

THE DUCK HAS TAKEN SIDES!!!

Seriously. If I thought as you say "in reality we do understand" (shouldn't speak for others, td, seriously), this would have ended days ago. This will definitely happen with me when people say

"apparently the point you're trying to make is___" and something distinctly Not My Point is said. It's my #1 Pet Peeve for some reason. Always has been. Friends and longtime interlocutors like Tommasso, and zedz (who I'm friends with outside of this place and the man, who knows I admire his intelligence, has done some nice turns by me) can testify how it makes me into a crank.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

#152 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:29 pm

This thread has brought out the worst in everyone but me

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#153 Post by Michael Kerpan » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:41 pm

akaten wrote:Anyway its all a moot point, in the run up to the release, I'm interested in hearing more about these films from those fortunate enough to have seen them, starting with the obvious, what is Ozu's overall approach to directing silent films?
Well, for starters, you could look at my article on Passing Fancy ... and Freda Fredbergs's article on Dragnet Girl.

User avatar
toiletduck!
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:43 pm
Location: The 'Go
Contact:

#154 Post by toiletduck! » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:41 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:THE DUCK HAS TAKEN SIDES!!!
You've seen me RE: faux-licorice. The Duck taking sides is nothing to be relied upon.
(shouldn't speak for others, td, seriously)

Believe me, that "for the most part" was very deliberately included.
domino harvey wrote:This thread has brought out the worst in everyone but me
Yeah, but we get that everywhere else. HA! No really, I'm kidding.

Okay, I've done my worst... I'll come back when I have Ozu-related things to say. And hopefully feeling less ornery.

-Toilet Dcuk

User avatar
GringoTex
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:57 am

#155 Post by GringoTex » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:36 pm

Just my two cents: I think the Eclipse line to date has been a curatorial masterpiece. The vast majority of the films have been unsung heroes, unavailable on home video (or at least unavailable in English-friendly editions) anywhere in the world. They've already covered melodrama, comedy, musicals, westerns, documentaries and war films. They've already covered classic Hollywood, Hollywood B film, Swedish, Japanese, French Spanish, silent, and indy guerilla. The charge of "lesser films by great directors" collections applies only to the Bergman and Kurosawa boxes. Every other set contains masterpieces.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

#156 Post by zedz » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:54 pm

toiletduck! wrote:for the most part we do understand, we just either a) don't agree, b) don't think it's as big of a deal as you're making it, or c) both.
Bingo, Dcuk! I can't possibly make my position any clearer, so I'm moving on.

(Of course we're still friends, Schreck. This is a DVD release we're talking about.)

User avatar
Morbii
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:38 am

#157 Post by Morbii » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:23 am

colinr0380 wrote:
Morbii wrote:(though, if it's a doc it depends - I watched Tokyo Ga but wouldn't have watched a non-spined making of, in most cases).

I love supplements (and that is usually the deciding factor in whether to buy the DVD, unless the film is one I desperately want to see) but the problem with Late Spring was the inclusion of Tokyo-Ga which then came out in Anchor Bay's Wim Wenders Volume 2 collection - though I feel that overlap to be more Anchor Bay's fault than Criterion's since their release came out a few months after Late Spring.
Don't get me wrong, Colin. I won't actually COMPLAIN about the extras (though, as I said, I would rather just pay less money). I know they're here to stay and I have no real problem with it. Hopefully one day I'll find the time to delve into some of these films deeper than I ever thought I would :)
HerrSchreck wrote:
yoshimori wrote:i.e. "You must play this game by my rules" and "I get the last public word".

All Hail!
It's Official! YOSHI HAS FOUND MEANING! Because what would a hot discussion be without yoshi to come in at the tail end for some Late Foot Stamping? (Trying to HALT A FIGHT to preserve a behind the scenes friendship is now Evil.) Friend yoshi, I'm not looking for the last word, I'm looking for a discussion away from capitalizing sourpusses like YOU.
Then perhaps you should have just PMed Zedz instead of making one of your pseudo-humorous lambasting giz-parading posts and saying "in the interest of friendship, let's stop arguing..." at the end.
Last edited by Morbii on Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#158 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:23 am

Domino lend me a quarter and a Suicide Booth. Morbiis here giving Life Lessons.

User avatar
Morbii
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:38 am

#159 Post by Morbii » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:34 am

Ooooh.. another "hilarious" retort!

User avatar
Zazou dans le Metro
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:01 am
Location: In the middle of an Elyssian Field

#160 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:08 am

As my old Grannie used to say.

Don't pick at the scab it'll leave a scar.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

#161 Post by MichaelB » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:23 am

And I really wouldn't pick a fight with the official (and popularly-acclaimed) Forum Member of the Year - at least not over something so trivial.

(Substantive fights are something else entirely!)

User avatar
Morbii
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:38 am

#162 Post by Morbii » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:29 am

MichaelB wrote:And I really wouldn't pick a fight with the official (and popularly-acclaimed) Forum Member of the Year - at least not over something so trivial.

(Substantive fights are something else entirely!)
Yes, that's just an unfortunate side-effect. I'm not sure how that happened. He was Richard Cranium (and probably always will be) according to my vote.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

#163 Post by MichaelB » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:14 am

Morbii wrote:Yes, that's just an unfortunate side-effect. I'm not sure how that happened.
People voting for him in greater numbers than people voting for anyone else, as far as I can make out. I certainly don't recall the result being greeted with howls of outrage - aside from the almost inaudible whimper of protest round these parts several days later.

Schreck and I have had our run-ins (and I'm sure we'll have many more), but I respect him more than 90% of the posters on these forums, and Domino Harvey is the only other poster more likely to make me laugh out loud in an average post.

User avatar
Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

#164 Post by Tommaso » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:58 pm

MichaelB wrote:Schreck and I have had our run-ins (and I'm sure we'll have many more), but I respect him more than 90% of the posters on these forums, and Domino Harvey is the only other poster more likely to make me laugh out loud in an average post.
Agreed on all three points, but apart from the fact that I personally didn't see much point in both the 'Member of the year' and the Cranium awards generally, Schreck really needs no defence. We've known him long enough, and it's good to have such a controversial but always knowledgeable character here. In other words: if anything reeked like a candidate for the 'Infighting and Navel Gazing' section in the last months, the last two or three pages of this thread must be it.

User avatar
Steven H
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: NC

#165 Post by Steven H » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:35 pm

domino harvey wrote:This thread has brought out the worst in everyone but me
You started it! In the words of Gob Bluth: C'MON!

I will be very glad when we can start discussing these wonderful films a bit more. Pre-war Ozu was much more audaciously liberal, and I generally prefer his work when he focuses on poorer subjects and their plight (though the subtle emotionally complex 50s and 60s films about middle and upper class types are hard to find much fault in.)

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#166 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:59 pm

Steven H wrote:I will be very glad when we can start discussing these wonderful films a bit more. Pre-war Ozu was much more audaciously liberal, and I generally prefer his work when he focuses on poorer subjects and their plight (though the subtle emotionally complex 50s and 60s films about middle and upper class types are hard to find much fault in.)
I prefer all Ozu periods. ;~}

I hope lots of people will buy this set -- because then one can hope for a prompt 3rd round of Eclipse Ozu. I won't be totally happy until everyone who needs to see Tokyo Inn and Walk Cheerfully (among others) can do so.

I do really want to see what other people think of these earlier Ozu films.

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#167 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:06 pm

Re Member of the Year:

1) Morbii and yoshimori grow ripe and blossom any time they see me in a spirited discussion; it's their cue to Pile On. Apparently my zoinky humor makes them more angry than the occasional target it's aimed at, which includes myself. I've called myself a Total Mental Case many many times... it's no mystery, least of all to me.

2) I fought and grimaced my way, when it looked like I was going to win, thru the last voting that Dave Hare deservedly won. I begged people to stop voting for me because I really didn't want the Target on me. Every Big Sentence I wrote from a win forward would be loaded with further Ego Significance for my couple of Career Haters. This year I decided it was uncouth to keep doing that to People Showing Genuine Appreciation, and that when the inevitable happens ("fucking member of the year thinks he's the shit") when my first Thread Tangle came (ta-daaaaa), I'd simply Deal With It.

And here we are. Zedz and I are fine, this is nothing worse than the rest of the usual IFNGazing day after day after day with the rest of the forum. Except axes have been unleashed to grind in the stands.

I've been wondering-- back on topic-- how this bodes for the rest of Ozu's silents, and whether any of them will make it into the CC. or all will be Supplement-Free. (My sense is if I Was Born, But . . . didn't make it, the odds are low. Dragnet Girl maybe?). I know this has been mentioned before but I was really hoping this would come paired, a la Floating Weeds, with a corrected Good Morning.

Ozu is one of the few cats whose film's commentaries I always make it a point to listen to, owing to the scarcity of info out there about him. And despite my *cough* "readjusting" my idea of what E would be, I'm thrilled to be getting these silents.

User avatar
Morbii
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:38 am

#168 Post by Morbii » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:14 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Re Member of the Year
I'm unsure why you think it has anything to do with "member of the year", but ok. Moving along.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#169 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:32 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Re Member of the Year: Ozu is one of the few cats whose film's commentaries I always make it a point to listen to, owing to the scarcity of info out there about him.
If you visit Boston, I promise to talk my way through just about any silent Ozu you might care to watch.

;~}

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

#170 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:40 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:
HerrSchreck wrote:Re Member of the Year: Ozu is one of the few cats whose film's commentaries I always make it a point to listen to, owing to the scarcity of info out there about him.
If you visit Boston, I promise to talk my way through just about any silent Ozu you might care to watch.
Is that offer only extended to Herr Schreck or can any of us come over? (if we bring our own snacks of course!) :D

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#171 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:03 pm

colinr0380 wrote:Is that offer only extended to Herr Schreck or can any of us come over? (if we bring our own snacks of course!) :D
I'm certain arrangements can be made -- especially for trans-Atlantic visitors. ;~}

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#172 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:10 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:
HerrSchreck wrote:Re Member of the Year: Ozu is one of the few cats whose film's commentaries I always make it a point to listen to, owing to the scarcity of info out there about him.
If you visit Boston, I promise to talk my way through just about any silent Ozu you might care to watch.
Depending how more or less Sosinian Sosin's accompaniment turns out, I'd wager that's a better soundtrack option. (MK I know you don't have as much a beef w this dudes silent accompaniment as I do... I've seen him do some worthwhile stuff myself, most recently live at the MoMa when me and the Dented Alligator went to see Hands Up!; but any collector of Kino silents-- not to mention CC re King of Kings, and.. my mind is going blank but didnt he do another soundtrack for them besides WEEDS-- is going to wind up thinking that someone at that company has no clue what constitutes "accompaniment").

As for munchies, so long as the Soy-Alfalfa Procciutto mentioned on the "food" thread isn't present, I reckon you could throw a decent Ozunalia.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#173 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:39 am

The only Sosin score I remember hearing is the one for "Story of Floating Weeds".

Since I did a shot by shot analysis of "Passing Fancy" and took lots of notes, I could probably do well as a benshi for this -- if I can find and read my notes.

I did ny best for Dan Sallitt on Naruse's "Spring Awakens" -- but hit the rocks on one key (especially talky) scene. This film -- by the way -- is my Exhibit A for the proposition that many supposedly "minor" works by great directors turn out to be masterpieces -- if anyone actually bothers to look at them. ;~}

I have avoided the cooking thread -- as I stilll have weight to lose from the recent holidays.

;~}

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#174 Post by HerrSchreck » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:47 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:This film -- by the way -- is my Exhibit A for the proposition that many supposedly "minor" works by great directors turn out to be masterpieces -- if anyone actually bothers to look at them.

There's no question that this is true, especially stretching back to the silent days of Ozu, Mizo, and (table kick, fist pound... sniff, pouting bubble-lip lipquiver) Yamanaka (now YAMA; Three Cineaste-Traumatizing Films would be a helluva E set) where filmmakers had years where they made four or five sometimes six films in a single year. Ive been recently working thru stuff like The Pleasure Garden by Hitch and the extremely rare Four Around A Woman by Lang, the latter particularly stunning example of how a completely overlooked and forgotten film can stun you. You tell yourself "well if it were that good people would have mentioned it, it'd be discussed somewhere by someone noteworthy.. I mean its Lang after all," and you watch it expecting something weak and are totally dazzled.

But this, rather than (if we're going civily back into the previous me-Z discussion) merely in my view increases the need for E to be more directorially adventurous in giving "non cc brands at the plate": the same way that it's a sin to overlook less-known periods of work by a man like Ozu owing to the trove of jewels splayed throughout the whole canon... it's just as much if not more of a sin to have no venue of quality for less known Filmmakers. You ignore periods of well known filmmakers at your peril, but you ignore entire filmmakers at your greater peril. Because the inevitable byproduct is when Lesser-Knowns finally get their shot at the plate, it's the usual obvious titles (say, Pepe by Duvivier, Nanook by Flaherty, Napoleon by Gance, Remorques or D'Ete by Grem, LArgent by LHerbier), with the rest of their less known-- and in most case far better-- works left for co's with less than hi end production like Kino & Milestone & Facets to finally get to in depth, really be hardcore and get in there and at last give us a genuine picture of the astounding canon of a given filmmaker. And then they get beat up for not giving us Criterion Transfers!!! (Not you MK, you & I have spoken on this and are definitely on same same page in terms of appreciating co's like Arte, Kino, etc). Obviously in the above list of one-shots there are speculative examples... many of which I'm slavering for myself in good editions.

On the food thiing I was just watching Annie Hall last night (some lousy acting in spots-- the insecure hand waving and stuttering delivery just gets tripey after a bit-- but still a wonderful "NYC Relationship" film.. I love when Grammy Hall looks at Allen and sees a Rabbi, silly but gets me every time) and cracking up via a line that always kills me... when he flies out to LA to try and get Annie back and fails.. he's sitting in the health food restaurant and orders "I'll have the uh alfalfa sprouts and the uh, the mashed yeast."

Mashed yeast. Ah Woody. Those were the days.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#175 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:40 pm

But Eclipse can only do so much. The job of making even a fraction of the unsung gems of world cinema available is simply too big for any one operation.

As far as I'm concerned, looking beyond Ozu, Naruse, Mizoguchi (etc.) brings us to Shimizu (1 or 2 unsubbed Japanese DVDs -- none of his major works), Shimazu, Gosho,, Imai, early (non-Tora-san) Yamada, Toyoda, Imai (absolutely a major figure) and so on.

If people learn that the unknown and unsung works of directors they've heard of might be treasures -- they might be more willing to explore the masterworks of never-heard-of-before contemporaries of the (somewhat) familiar directors.

Post Reply