How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

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JOI
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#76 Post by JOI » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:16 pm

Hate to bump this thread and seeing as I barely post here, I feel bad about doing it, but nevertheless, I need your help desperately. I purchased Nights of Cabiriaon half.com for roughly $50 and received a disc and package that looks like this and this.

Now let's head on over to the always helpful ccforum packaging photos

Notice anything yet? First of all the interior disc ring color that outlines the disc artwork on the official copy is black. On mine's it is silver/reflexive. Next, the packing is all wrong. You have a yin-yang release mechanism on the official one and the disc plate is proportioned wrong in the box on my version. I let the seller know and he is refuting this is a bootleg. Do I need anymore proof on this one? Thanks for the help guys and hopefully this benefits other members here who may eventually run into the same problem.

Feel free to giggle at me.

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cdnchris
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#77 Post by cdnchris » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:29 pm

I think you're fine. The inner ring on the disc is actually silver, the photo I took came out that way because of the light from the flash (didn't actually notice this initially.) They also probably replaced the case so that's why you have a different case.

JOI
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#78 Post by JOI » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:42 pm

Thanks for the help, I just have one last quick question and then I am done. Should the back of the interior ring say "Nights of Cabiria Layer 0" and "Nights of Cabiria Layer 1" on either side? I am looking at a netflix copy compared to mine and it doesnt say that, just, "Nights of Cabiria" and "Nights of Cabiria Made In Taiwan"?

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manicsounds
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#79 Post by manicsounds » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:58 pm

My "Official" copy says Layer 0 and Layer 1 on the inner rings. Nowhere about "made in Taiwan"

And as many people on this forum know, I've had this DVD for over 7 years, and I STILL haven't watched it...

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Napier
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#80 Post by Napier » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:13 am

manicsounds wrote: And as many people on this forum know, I've had this DVD for over 7 years, and I STILL haven't watched it...
I don't know what you're waiting for, it's Fellini's best. :-k

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aox
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#81 Post by aox » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:12 am

Yeah, if I wasn't so in love with 8 1/2, I would say Cabiria is his best film. Please do yourself the favor.

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tholly
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#82 Post by tholly » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:12 am

Anyone know how to confirm that a copy of Flesh for Frankenstein is legit and not a bootleg?

AALFW
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#83 Post by AALFW » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:51 am

Serial numbers on the disc, especially for the titles oop for a long time like that, are the best indicator (besides the nimbus).

johnboywalton
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#84 Post by johnboywalton » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:27 pm

tholly wrote:Anyone know how to confirm that a copy of Flesh for Frankenstein is legit and not a bootleg?
I think that their are two pressings of Blood for Dracula and Flesh for Frankenstein, with the earliest being produced on Nimbus discs and the later on Ritek Global Media discs (which Image Entertainment had a production deal with from 2002 until 2007; this is not to be confused with Ritek USA which produces DVD-R Discs). I have both Blood for Dracula and Flesh for Frankenstein, both purchased from reputable online private sellers. My Blood for Dracula has the white ring and the Nimbus along with a reflective surface logo but my Flesh for Frankenstein has solid white bleed-in artwork on the disc. The inserts and booklets are exactly alike and seem to have been printed on the same Criterion-standard high-quality paper. On the inner-ring of "Flesh" there is the Ritek Global Media logo so I searched the internet to find pictures of other "Flesh" discs. On this forums website they show an early pressing that has a clear inner ring and a reflective surface, which caused me to freak out a little bit. But then I checked the seller images on Amazon and both "Flesh" and "Blood" discs were the Ritek bleed-in ones, so I calmed down a little bit. Then I discovered the article on Ritek's partnership with Image and calmed down a little more. I think that later pressings of "Flesh" and "Blood" were done on Ritek discs to save costs. My copy of Flesh is of outstanding quality and includes all the chapters on the disc with the fade-in, fade-out animated menu (which I would think a bootlegger would have a hard time with). Just to be sure I also popped my copy of "Flesh" into my computer dvd player and it read it as [Frank] just like it reads "Blood" as [Dracula]; a bootleg would come up as [Undefined] or [Unknown]. Also, one other member stated that he came across some member stating they had Ritek editions they bought from Borders so I don't think that Borders would sell bootlegs. You can have my serial number, just let me know. I emailed Criterion just to be sure and am still awaiting their reply. I hope I'm right thought I'm pretty sure of it. If my copy of "Flesh" is a bootleg then it cost the same amount to produce as the original.

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tholly
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#85 Post by tholly » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:45 pm

Please post your serial #. My copy is in the mail. Should be here soon. From the photos I saw, it appeared legit, but I would love to confirm. The photos showed the all white center ring.

johnboywalton
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#86 Post by johnboywalton » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:06 pm

tholly wrote:Please post your serial #. My copy is in the mail. Should be here soon. From the photos I saw, it appeared legit, but I would love to confirm. The photos showed the all white center ring.
Sure, Serial Number is 11.1.DV.CC1546D.1.SSA A01 (Ritek Global Media Logo) CA

Hope this helps us both!

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tholly
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#87 Post by tholly » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:06 pm

johnboywalton wrote:
tholly wrote:Please post your serial #. My copy is in the mail. Should be here soon. From the photos I saw, it appeared legit, but I would love to confirm. The photos showed the all white center ring.
Sure, Serial Number is 11.1.DV.CC1546D.1.SSA A01 (Ritek Global Media Logo) CA
Mine matches. Looks legit to me.

rrenault
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#88 Post by rrenault » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:48 pm

Are there no issues with fakes of some of the more recent titles to go out of print like Pierrot Le Fou, That Obscure Object of Desire, and Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie.

I recently bought a 'brand new' copy of That Obscure Object of Desire off ebay for about $35 plus shipping and handling, and the image on the disc was somewhat blurry, and the writing had drop shadows (on the disc image). I'm hoping it was just a manufacturing error. In the case of Pierrot Le Fou, back in December I bought the blu ray from a Barnes and Noble marketplace seller, and the blue on the spine of the blu ray artwork was slightly deeper than on the DVD. I'm sure it's not a big deal. I bought the DVD at J&R in Manhattan a while back, so that's obviously legit, and I'm sure the blu is legit, as well. I'm probably just fretting for nothing.

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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#89 Post by yeahimajerk » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:14 pm

Hey Guys,
First time poster, long time board creeper. So I recently bought a 'brand new' copy of That Obscure Object of Desire off Amazon.com and the image on the disc was somewhat blurry and after careful examination I noticed drop shadows - on the disc itself. I'm suspecting I got ripped off and that it's a bootleg. When I notified the seller, the seller advised me the disc 'was bootlegged in the Criterion DVD manufacturing plant'. I've never seen anything like this before on any Criterion DVD that I own. I went thru my collection and compared the discs I know I've purchased either new from Amazon or directly from Criterion to one's I've purchased on the secondhand market and so far, I haven't noticed them on any other discs I currently own. I thought there may be a thread out there - and sure enough there was one. I wanted to post some pictures to see what the consensus was (and also to serve as a warning to others)...

Just an FYI - I didn't notice the flaw on the disc at first unless I held it under direct light. It made it really hard to capture in a photo - but it's similar to how you don't see a finger print on glass unless you look at it from a certain angle with the right light.

First Pic - You can clearly see the "Disney" Logo on the bottom. Look for it underneath the word "obscure" and where the light is reflecting off the disc left to right...

Image

Second Pic - Starting right on the EYE of the woman on the disc you can see part of the words "Seven Pounds" (yes I believe the bootlegger copied over a Will Smith movie. Kind of makes it even worse, right?

Image

Third Pic - A close up of the word "Pounds" - this pic is a good one because of the low light you can see "OUN" in the word "Pounds"

Image

So, my gut says I clearly got ripped off.

Any thoughts. Anyone see anything like this?

Thanks

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tholly
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#90 Post by tholly » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:11 pm

Well, that is definitely a fake. Just do the Amazon A to Z guarantee, or whatever it is called, and get a refund. You can't sell illegal bootlegged items on Amazon, so a refund will be easy. I once got a bootlegged Criterion box set, got a full refund, and Amazon told me to keep the item and not ship it back since it was a bootleg. I tossed the thing and replaced it, but you should have no problem getting your money back.

member24958
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#91 Post by member24958 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:24 am

OleAnderson wrote:So I recently bought a 'brand new' copy of That Obscure Object of Desire off Amazon.com and the image on the disc was somewhat blurry and after careful examination I noticed drop shadows - on the disc itself. I'm suspecting I got ripped off and that it's a bootleg.
I'm curious. Were there any signs that something was off before opening it? You mentioned it was new right?
Last edited by member24958 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tommaso
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#92 Post by Tommaso » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:01 am

Looks weird indeed. But the film on the disc is the Bunuel, right? If so, check the disc size to find out whether it's the normal DVD9 size with all extras. If so, I'd rather assume something went wrong in the pressing plant; they may have originally printed a wrong label on the right disc and then simply printed the right one over it. That's assuming that indeed CC don't have their exclusive pressing plant and some other company manufactured it which also manufactures the Disney disc.

rrenault
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#93 Post by rrenault » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:13 am

Are you sure it's a fake and not just a manufacturing flaw? Honestly, I'd ask Jon Mulvaney's opinion and see what he says. I've washed my hands of buying stuff from ebay or amazon marketplace, unless it's something inexpensive that's not heavily coveted like an in print CD. I'll only buy from amazon, B & N, Best Buy, etc. directly or Barnes and Noble marketplace, which is much safer than Amazon Marketplace, since you have to be approved as a seller to sell on there unlike with amazon where anyone can sell.

gum.on.shoe
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#94 Post by gum.on.shoe » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:53 pm

johnboywalton wrote:
tholly wrote:Anyone know how to confirm that a copy of Flesh for Frankenstein is legit and not a bootleg?
I think that their are two pressings of Blood for Dracula and Flesh for Frankenstein, with the earliest being produced on Nimbus discs and the later on Ritek Global Media discs (which Image Entertainment had a production deal with from 2002 until 2007; this is not to be confused with Ritek USA which produces DVD-R Discs). I have both Blood for Dracula and Flesh for Frankenstein, both purchased from reputable online private sellers. My Blood for Dracula has the white ring and the Nimbus along with a reflective surface logo but my Flesh for Frankenstein has solid white bleed-in artwork on the disc. The inserts and booklets are exactly alike and seem to have been printed on the same Criterion-standard high-quality paper. On the inner-ring of "Flesh" there is the Ritek Global Media logo so I searched the internet to find pictures of other "Flesh" discs. On this forums website they show an early pressing that has a clear inner ring and a reflective surface, which caused me to freak out a little bit. But then I checked the seller images on Amazon and both "Flesh" and "Blood" discs were the Ritek bleed-in ones, so I calmed down a little bit. Then I discovered the article on Ritek's partnership with Image and calmed down a little more. I think that later pressings of "Flesh" and "Blood" were done on Ritek discs to save costs. My copy of Flesh is of outstanding quality and includes all the chapters on the disc with the fade-in, fade-out animated menu (which I would think a bootlegger would have a hard time with). Just to be sure I also popped my copy of "Flesh" into my computer dvd player and it read it as [Frank] just like it reads "Blood" as [Dracula]; a bootleg would come up as [Undefined] or [Unknown]. Also, one other member stated that he came across some member stating they had Ritek editions they bought from Borders so I don't think that Borders would sell bootlegs. You can have my serial number, just let me know. I emailed Criterion just to be sure and am still awaiting their reply. I hope I'm right thought I'm pretty sure of it. If my copy of "Flesh" is a bootleg then it cost the same amount to produce as the original.
I have read on another website forum that this is true--Ritek took over Image's production of Blood and Flesh. I can also attest that shortly after these titles went OOP I happened upon 2 final copies at a local Borders store that I bought sealed/brand new. The Blood copy was an Image product, distinguished by the straight cornered cover art, the reflective disc and the Nimbus logo. The Flesh copy was a Ritek product, distinguished by the rounded corners on the cover art, a solid whitish disc covered fully (even over the inner circle) and no Nimbus logo with unusual serials.

It would seem that a Nimbus logo, etc. for Blood and Flesh ensures a high probability of authenticity; however, the absence of one does not necessarily mean it's a bootleg.

The Nimbus is likely more desirable--and thus valuable--for this reason and IMO the reflective disc has a slicker, unique look to it. But either products should be considered authentic.

I recently bought 2 OOP copies of The Unbearable Lightness of Being from ebay.

Both had sticker residue from security seals, and another had a residual yellow piece of a price tag so I assume it was bought from some store. The one with the yellow sticker's insert had a slight difference in color--parts of it were more purple. It also came in a traditional amaray case as most DVDs whereas the other came in a amaray case with a very shallow opening on the side--the only time I've seen this is from another OOP ebay purchase of Silence of the Lambs. The one in the unique case also has a line in the inner ring that actually passes through the center of the serial number. Serial numbers on both discs are similar and representative of the common CMCA serials.

It's my belief that these amaray cases with shallow openings on the side are indicative of bootlegs. The packaging pictures on this forum and throughout the Internet never show the side of the DVD case to verify this theory. So I was wondering if anyone out there has recognized variations in the DVD cases used by authentic Criterions vs bootlegs--in particular regard to the side from which the case is opened.

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Drucker
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#95 Post by Drucker » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:22 pm

I never really considered the idea of buying boots and now i'm kind of worried after reading this page (probably needlessly so). Would you guys say there is any reason to worry about a non-OOP title? I've bought most of my Criterions either through amazon (used) or ebay, and have never noticed anything odd really in the picture, and all of them have included the inner booklets (except for Nights of Cabiria, which is a former rental).

What are some ways to actually spot this stuff?

rrenault
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#96 Post by rrenault » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:06 pm

Are you sure that copy of That Obscure Object of Desire is a fake? I bought the film and I had the same exact issue with my disc. But the film and all the features are on there and in tact. The booklet seems perfectly genuine as does the artwork and case. I may just be a manufacturing flaw. Those kinds of things happen.

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El Manchego
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#97 Post by El Manchego » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:39 pm

rrenault wrote:Are you sure that copy of That Obscure Object of Desire is a fake? I bought the film and I had the same exact issue with my disc. But the film and all the features are on there and in tact. The booklet seems perfectly genuine as does the artwork and case. I may just be a manufacturing flaw. Those kinds of things happen.
I'm pretty sure that it's a manufacturing flaw; I bought it directly from Criterion roughly three years ago and I have the same issue with my disc.

zenosparadox
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#98 Post by zenosparadox » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:56 pm

Hello all. I am in need of some assistance identifying the bootlegyness of my copies of Hard Boiled and The Killer. I have done some research, but I need advice.

The Killer:
I own two copies of this one. My wife, who used to work at a UPS store, told me that she doesn't think that the inserts are glossy paper. They are hard paper, nonetheless. All the artwork has pointed, non-rounded edges. The discs have the mirror effect, and it has the correct NIMBUS and serial numbers. Honestly, the only difference I can see between these two copies of The Killer is that one has a disc where the center is non-transparent and the same color/style as the blood and title of the disc, and my other copy has the white frosted ring. I have read that Criterion put out both versions of these disc. Also, for both discs, when I put them in my computer, they pull up UNDEFINED, which I also understand might be normal for these. Anybody have any clues?

Hard Boiled:
Two versions of this one, too. I actually just discovered which of the two was a bootleg. The insert was printed on glossy, thick paper. The artwork on the outside of the case was printed lower, if that makes any sense. One way to see this is that the logo on the top, front of the case, containing the words "THE CRITERION COLLECTION", is too tall. The correct version is slightly shorter. Here is an example. Both of my Hard Boiled copies have the NIMBUS and correct serial numbers. The bootleggers are getting good, I guess.

richast2
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#99 Post by richast2 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:42 am

gum.on.shoe wrote:It's my belief that these amaray cases with shallow openings on the side are indicative of bootlegs.
My Andrei Rublev came in a case like that. I seem to recall several other early Criterions coming in those cases, as well.

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tholly
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Re: How to identify (and avoid) Criterion bootlegs

#100 Post by tholly » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:48 am

richast2 wrote:
gum.on.shoe wrote:It's my belief that these amaray cases with shallow openings on the side are indicative of bootlegs.
My Andrei Rublev came in a case like that. I seem to recall several other early Criterions coming in those cases, as well.
Yea, those cases have been used to CC.

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