The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

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ellsworthedits
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:21 am

Re: The Criterion Channel

#126 Post by ellsworthedits » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:56 pm

backwater wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:40 pm
SiriusBlack wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm
senseabove wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:48 pm


Just to make it extra confusing, HDMI and HDCP are not the same thing. HDMI 1.4 should be fine.
Hmmmm ok, maybe I’ll try a new Roku on the off chance it does work. I’ve beenwanting an upgrade but a new TV isn’t in the cards right now. Cross my fingers!

I did email the help desk at criterion using the special charter subscriber email address they provided. I’ll update if they give any new information.
Where did you get the charter email address? I haven't been able to find it.
chartersupport@criterion.com

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SiriusBlack
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:33 am

Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#127 Post by SiriusBlack » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:25 pm

That’s the one!

I’ve picked up a new Roku. Will update this afternoon if that solves the problem.

backwater
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: The Criterion Channel

#128 Post by backwater » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:31 pm

ellsworthedits wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:56 pm
backwater wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:40 pm
SiriusBlack wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm
Hmmmm ok, maybe I’ll try a new Roku on the off chance it does work. I’ve beenwanting an upgrade but a new TV isn’t in the cards right now. Cross my fingers!

I did email the help desk at criterion using the special charter subscriber email address they provided. I’ll update if they give any new information.
Where did you get the charter email address? I haven't been able to find it.
chartersupport@criterion.com
Thanks!

cvarrick
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:42 am

Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#129 Post by cvarrick » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:46 pm

SiriusBlack wrote:I’m getting the “this device does not support secure video playback.“ error. Near as I can tell this has something to do with the HDMI hdcp 2.2 standard. My TV is an older Vizio standard HD, not 4K tv. I can’t find anything online listing it’s compliance with hdcp 2.2 I’m using and AmazonFire Stick, again the non 4K type.

Is it safe to assume that the only way the Criterion Channel is going to work is if you have at minimum, equipment made in the past 2-3 years, and probably 4K compatible?
I’m in the same boat. Emailed criterion, & as part of the automatic email I got back, I found out it’s due to DRM, which causes the app to not work on, amongst others:

“Older models of Amazon Fire TV that are not Widevine L1 certified. However Fire TV Cube, Fire TV Gen 3, and Fire TV Stick 4K should work”

Just to be clear, it’s not the 4K aspect that’s causing it.
I was hoping it was a bug that would be worked out, but apparently not.
I’m currently focusing on memories of the bugginess when it was on Hulu & then filmstruck to convince myself not to buy a new streamer!

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mfunk9786
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#130 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:00 pm

Heard back from tech support, they indicated a Roku app update is coming ASAP to address a few issues with it.

I responded sharing this thread with them, so hopefully at least someone from support will be able to peruse it and see some of the issues folks are having. Or not. I have to imagine they're extremely busy with all these technical bugs.

EDIT: The thread has been acknowledged.

Image

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SiriusBlack
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#131 Post by SiriusBlack » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:30 pm

Update!

Got a Roku Streaming Stick+ today and success! I haven’t watched a complete film yet so I don’t know about the ending 3 minutes early issue some are having, but I was able to start a film with no errors so that’s a major improvement!

In case anyone is curious, according to the Roku the hdcp for my hdmi port on the tv is 1.4 so in theory the Criterion Channel does not require 2.2 in order to function.

Thanks for the help today, everyone!

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Blutarsky
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:09 pm

Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#132 Post by Blutarsky » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:27 pm

The only issue I had on my Roku (which I feel I must take note was built into my 2017 TV) was that Army of Shadows ended mid way through the credits like a Netflix or Hulu show. Olympia on the other hand, parts 1 and parts 2, worked perfect without any of the previously mentioned issues.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#133 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:50 am

Watched Andrei Rublev with a Roku Stream Stick+. I had to re-start it mid-way through (after it just plain crashed). But worse was an overlaid error message covering the last minute and a half of the film. Exiting and fast forwarding didn't solve THIS problem.

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Yaanu
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#134 Post by Yaanu » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:02 am

For what it's worth, here's what the update information for the Android version of the The Criterion Channel app reads:
Google Play Store wrote:WHAT'S NEW
Stability fixes:
Thank you for your feedback regarding Chromecast. We are working hard to support this feature in a future update.

frozenhamster
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:15 am

Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#135 Post by frozenhamster » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:45 am

Hi, y'all. I've been trying to figure out what the heck is going on with the dropped frames on Apple TV (and iOS I noticed, even when movies are downloaded to the phone), and my absolute best guess is that it's due to the frame rate Criterion is encoding or outputting at.

It appears the Criterion Channel content is encoded at exactly 24Hz, whereas the Apple TV actually only outputs the NTSC standard 23.976Hz.

There are some other apps, including Paramount Network's streaming app, that also appear use true 24Hz, and which also stutter a la CC on the Apple TV. Netflix, HBO and others mostly use 23.976Hz, so no dropped frames on those.

Roku and Fire TV devices actually only output 24Hz, which means on those CC is working right in tandem with the device frequency-wise, thus no dropped frames. (I borrowed a Roku and tested it out and indeed no dropped frames.)

Interestingly in my research I've seen Netflix users complain about dropped frames on Rokus and Fire TVs because of the conflicting frame rates, though it's seemingly much less frequent and thus pretty much unnoticeable to everyone but the most sensitive viewers.

Anyway, seems like unless Criterion switches things up to support 23.976Hz instead of 24Hz, or Apple adds the ability to output at precisely 24Hz, we're gonna be stuck with this problem on Apple TVs.

(Or I could be all wrong on this, and problem is cause by something else entirely, in which case just ignore me.)

jkranes
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:36 pm

Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#136 Post by jkranes » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:41 pm

re: AppleTV dropped frames

I haven't noticed it on my AppleTV but it's possible I'm just not looking for the right thing.

I wonder if the AppleTV "match frame rate" setting helps? (I have this set on mine).

Also: some TVs have a special setting to support 24 FPS. On my LG it's called "RealCinema", others may have a different name.

Just an idea.

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Guido
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#137 Post by Guido » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:25 pm

This seems like the best explanation of the dropped frames issue I've seen so far. I'm in the middle of a thread with Criterion on this (sent them a detailed reply yesterday, no response yet), but I'll flag this possibility with them and see what they come back with.

jkranes
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:36 pm

Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#138 Post by jkranes » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:09 pm

I just found a lengthy thread on the AppleTV 24 vs 23.976 issue at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-netwo ... video.html.

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ellsworthedits
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#139 Post by ellsworthedits » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:03 pm

jkranes wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:09 pm
I just found a lengthy thread on the AppleTV 24 vs 23.976 issue at https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-netwo ... video.html.
Wow... we Criterion fans are so respectful to each other over here. :) That forum is a war zone! (And a useful read!)

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jedgeco
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#140 Post by jedgeco » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:54 am

This may be old news for Hulu and/or Filmstruck subscribers (I was neither), but the other night I spent a few minutes and A/B'd a few older Criterion DVDs (Red Beard, Schizopolis, Salvatore Giuliano) that have never been upgraded to Blu but that list their sources as "new high definition transfers." The Channel pretty clearly is streaming these in native HD and not up-converted SD.

Each of them looked really good on the Channel in comparison. Red Beard, in particular, is from the same source scan as the DVD (you can see the same source-print defects across both platforms), but oddly eliminates a black bar that the DVD has on the left side of the frame and accordant horizontal compression.

yoloswegmaster
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#141 Post by yoloswegmaster » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:02 am

jedgeco wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:54 am
This may be old news for Hulu and/or Filmstruck subscribers (I was neither), but the other night I spent a few minutes and A/B'd a few older Criterion DVDs (Red Beard, Schizopolis, Salvatore Giuliano) that have never been upgraded to Blu but that list their sources as "new high definition transfers." The Channel pretty clearly is streaming these in native HD and not up-converted SD.

Each of them looked really good on the Channel in comparison. Red Beard, in particular, is from the same source scan as the DVD (you can see the same source-print defects across both platforms), but oddly eliminates a black bar that the DVD has on the left side of the frame and accordant horizontal compression.
If Criterion were to upgrade Red Beard, I doubt they would use a HD transfer when a 4K (or 2K, im not sure) version exists.

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mfunk9786
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#142 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:07 pm

Can anyone comment on whether the latest Roku update resolved the crashing issues? I got an e-mail to that effect from Criterion Channel tech support but have been unable to test for myself quite yet.

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DaBargainHunta
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#143 Post by DaBargainHunta » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:55 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:07 pm
Can anyone comment on whether the latest Roku update resolved the crashing issues? I got an e-mail to that effect from Criterion Channel tech support but have been unable to test for myself quite yet.
Which update is this?

To my knowledge, I've only received one update, which completely changed the look of the app.

If you press * (asterisk) on the remote over the Criterion Channel on the main Roku menu, it will tell you which version of the app you're on.

Mine says Version 4.5 - build 1. Is that what you have?

If there has only been one update, it is my understanding that the issue changed from crashing in the last 2-3 minutes of the movie to instead displaying an "Error Code -3" box or something like that over the movie in the last 2-3 minutes.

It would be nice if there has been another stealth update since the first one, but I don't think so. I really want this issue to be fixed.

Update: From browsing the internet, here are some of the movies affected: Paths of Glory, The Ballad of Narayama, Le plaisir, The Big Heat, The Lure, So Dark the Night, Experiment in Terror, Sabotage, My Brother's Wedding, and I'm sure there are others.

If you've seen any of those movies before and want to test the last few minutes, that would be great. (I haven't seen any of them, so I don't want to jump in the last few minutes and spoil the movies for myself.)

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Blutarsky
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#144 Post by Blutarsky » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:55 pm

Z, Viridiana, and Mirror all gave me similar Error Code. However Olympia and Multiple Maniacs did not give me the same error code. These were all under the build 1 Roku update from Wednesday onward.

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porquenegar
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#145 Post by porquenegar » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:46 am

I've viewed 3 movies so far and have an playback issue at the end of all three using a Roku 4.

Playback stopped every few seconds during the last minute of Last Hurrah for Chivalry on launch day.

Yesterday, I got error code -3 at the end of Brief Encounter and the same just now at the end of The Big Heat.

I've reported the error to tech support and hope they get it corrected quickly.

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Grand Wazoo
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#146 Post by Grand Wazoo » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:45 am

I got the error at the end of Come and See.

jkranes
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#147 Post by jkranes » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:18 pm

More experimenting with Apple TV: I turned on the Developer HUD to see what was actually being output from the ATV to the TV. What I found was that with my ATV set for 60Hz SDR output with content and frame rate matching on, the ATV did not recognize any Criterion content I tried as 24 FPS content, and kept the refresh rate at 60Hz. Whereas with Netflix, BOTH 24 FPS and 23.976 FPS content are recognized and cause the ATV to automatically select a 24Hz refresh rate. (I am basing my Netflix 24 FPS tests on the Netflix-provided test pattern claimed to be 24FPS, as well as "Bird Box" which was mentioned in the above-linked AVS Forum discussion as being true 24FPS).

I was able to force the ATV to display Criterion in 24Hz by selecting 4K SDR 24Hz from the settings menu. I'll probably keep that setting since I don't really see any great benefit from having the ATV menus displaying at 60Hz. It does not solve the 24 vs 23.976 frame dropping issue, which I understand in theory but can't really seem to detect myself from the content I've been watching, but it at least avoids 3:2 pull down at 60Hz.

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willoneill
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#148 Post by willoneill » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:53 pm

It seems the entire streaming library isn't available in Canada. But it's not obvious at first; if I search for a title (e.g. the Olympic documentaries), I get a |no results" message. It's only when I noticed one of the documentaries in the "All Films" list and clicked on it did I get the "This Title is Not Available in Your Country" error message.

frozenhamster
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#149 Post by frozenhamster » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:49 am

Jkranes, that's *really* interesting. I did try setting the Apple TV to 4K SDR 24Hz a few days ago, and while it looked to my eye a bit less jerky I was still getting frame drops. Meanwhile, I never noticed frame drops watching Bird Box on Netflix. I wonder if it's something to do with Apple TV simply not recognizing the Criterion content as 24Hz, so it doesn't know to to handle it. Maybe this suggests a problem with how Crtierion/Vimeo OTT is flagging its content?

Also, I quoted your comment in an email threat with CC and Vimeo OTT support, so maybe they'll see it and be able to find a solution on their end.

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Grand Wazoo
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Re: The Criterion Channel -- Technical Issues and Questions

#150 Post by Grand Wazoo » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:52 am

I tried watching The Ear via my roku and it instead played Il Sorpasso. I then tried Il Sorpasso to see if they simply switched the files by accident and it played....Il Sorpasso. I thought this may be roku-specific but the same thing happens when watching on a browser. Unless the ill sore possum was some kind of omni-clue, I guess Criterion has a lot more maintenance to tackle.

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