Criterion OOP

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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Drucker
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Criterion OOP

#226 Post by Drucker » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:48 am

jedgeco wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:45 am
Brian C wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:59 pm
I don’t think there’s anything to know except that StudioCanal’s deal with Criterion ended and they signed a new one with Lionsgate.
I think that it's safe to assume that Lionsgate was willing to give more cash upfront, possibly tied to a higher royalty rate.

The unknowable questions is whether the upfront cash that StudioCanal received makes up for what appears to minimal royalties from the total failure to exploit the StudioCanal library.

We're less than 24 months away from the 10th anniversary of the StudioCanal title purge; it's not unreasonable to think that the Lionsgate deal was 10 years, and if so about now would be the time for SC to think about what's next. Certainly looking at the landscape since then, only Criterion and a handful of other boutique labels would be able to monetize the SC catalog.
Drucker wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:44 pm
All of those rumors about Studio Canal titles coming back in print...which always seem to start with this forum!

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Brian C
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Re: Criterion OOP

#227 Post by Brian C » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:05 pm

jedgeco wrote:We're less than 24 months away from the 10th anniversary of the StudioCanal title purge; it's not unreasonable to think that the Lionsgate deal was 10 years, and if so about now would be the time for SC to think about what's next.
Others can say whether it’s “reasonable” or not, but either way, it’s a wild-ass guess with no basis in known fact as far as I’m aware.

paulm
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Re: Criterion OOP

#228 Post by paulm » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:23 pm

Wasn't the story at the time that SC wanted their titles to be released in a specific StudioCanal branded line? That's what Lionsgate ended up doing for the uh, 7(?) titles they put out from 2010-2013.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Criterion OOP

#229 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:58 pm

Brian C wrote:
jedgeco wrote:We're less than 24 months away from the 10th anniversary of the StudioCanal title purge; it's not unreasonable to think that the Lionsgate deal was 10 years, and if so about now would be the time for SC to think about what's next.
Others can say whether it’s “reasonable” or not, but either way, it’s a wild-ass guess with no basis in known fact as far as I’m aware.
The deal has been renewed twice since the initial deal. In 2015 and again in Nov of 2017. The only question is does this include SC’s classic line. My guess is yes. Hopefully SC has taken back some of the titles as to license to CC. Hence the SC rep at Criterion’s office.

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RSTooley
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:35 pm

Re: Criterion OOP

#230 Post by RSTooley » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:36 am

As speculated awhile back, it looks like America Lost and Found: The BBS Story is officially going out of print. You can still purchase a Blu-ray set through Crierion's website, but the DVD set is listed as out of print.

phoenix474
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Re: Criterion OOP

#231 Post by phoenix474 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:16 pm

Maybe that means they'll finally release a standalone of The Last Picture Show..?

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Boosmahn
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Re: Criterion OOP

#232 Post by Boosmahn » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:59 pm

One of Criterion's best boxsets (not counting A Safe Place). The Last Picture Show may finally get its own release out of this, though... it's long overdue.

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Minkin
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Re: Criterion OOP

#233 Post by Minkin » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:18 pm

RSTooley wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:36 am
As speculated awhile back, it looks like America Lost and Found: The BBS Story is officially going out of print. You can still purchase a Blu-ray set through Crierion's website, but the DVD set is listed as out of print.
Did they make a statement anywhere saying it was going OOP? As this rather just looks like a DVD set being out of stock.

The problem a few years ago was over Head being licensed by Rhino to Sony for a short period of time, and that Rhino was coming out with their big Monkees Blu-ray set (sold exclusively at a single website for $200 - thus I'm pretty sure they've sold like 12 copies, not the "10,000 limited editions"). But that set has been out for several years now and nothing seems to have changed. But the big sticking point: Rhino is owned by WB; and these OOP worries were back before the WB deal came into existence.

I think people should buy the set by all means, but was anything said by Criterion anywhere? For this really just looks like a change of stock and not something to panic over, but maybe I missed something.

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dwk
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Re: Criterion OOP

#234 Post by dwk » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:18 pm

The DVD set may be OOP simply because the numbers aren't there for another print run. I think the Blu-ray set would also be showing up OOP on Criterion's site if it was truly OOP.

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RSTooley
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Re: Criterion OOP

#235 Post by RSTooley » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:15 pm

Minkin wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:18 pm
RSTooley wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:36 am
As speculated awhile back, it looks like America Lost and Found: The BBS Story is officially going out of print. You can still purchase a Blu-ray set through Crierion's website, but the DVD set is listed as out of print.
Did they make a statement anywhere saying it was going OOP? As this rather just looks like a DVD set being out of stock.

The problem a few years ago was over Head being licensed by Rhino to Sony for a short period of time, and that Rhino was coming out with their big Monkees Blu-ray set (sold exclusively at a single website for $200 - thus I'm pretty sure they've sold like 12 copies, not the "10,000 limited editions"). But that set has been out for several years now and nothing seems to have changed. But the big sticking point: Rhino is owned by WB; and these OOP worries were back before the WB deal came into existence.

I think people should buy the set by all means, but was anything said by Criterion anywhere? For this really just looks like a change of stock and not something to panic over, but maybe I missed something.
Very fair to call out my wording there. Perhaps I shouldn't declare it official. However, outside of the major StudioCanal announcement, Criterion hasn't always officially announced films going out of print. For example, The Confession was not officially announced prior to someone reaching out to Jon Mulvaney.

I would find it very odd if they allowed the DVD set to go out of print, but not the Blu-ray. We shall see.

KJones77
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Re: Criterion OOP

#236 Post by KJones77 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:30 pm

RSTooley wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:15 pm
Minkin wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:18 pm
RSTooley wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:36 am
As speculated awhile back, it looks like America Lost and Found: The BBS Story is officially going out of print. You can still purchase a Blu-ray set through Crierion's website, but the DVD set is listed as out of print.
Did they make a statement anywhere saying it was going OOP? As this rather just looks like a DVD set being out of stock.

The problem a few years ago was over Head being licensed by Rhino to Sony for a short period of time, and that Rhino was coming out with their big Monkees Blu-ray set (sold exclusively at a single website for $200 - thus I'm pretty sure they've sold like 12 copies, not the "10,000 limited editions"). But that set has been out for several years now and nothing seems to have changed. But the big sticking point: Rhino is owned by WB; and these OOP worries were back before the WB deal came into existence.

I think people should buy the set by all means, but was anything said by Criterion anywhere? For this really just looks like a change of stock and not something to panic over, but maybe I missed something.
Very fair to call out my wording there. Perhaps I shouldn't declare it official. However, outside of the major StudioCanal announcement, Criterion hasn't always officially announced films going out of print. For example, The Confession was not officially announced prior to someone reaching out to Jon Mulvaney.

I would find it very odd if they allowed the DVD set to go out of print, but not the Blu-ray. We shall see.
Who allowed?

Personally I'm buying into the theory that this isn't a rights issue but rather a sales issue. The DVD version just wasn't selling well enough. If they lost the rights then the blu set would have gone OOP too right away as opposed to later on.

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Morbii
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:38 am

Re: Criterion OOP

#237 Post by Morbii » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:38 pm

Or maybe they’re both OOP, but the BD version is just still in stock for now.

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dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Criterion OOP

#238 Post by dwk » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:51 pm

A poster over at the Blu-ray.com forums emailed Criterion and asked about the BBS set and they got the following response
Thanks for writing. To the best of my knowledge, the Blu-ray version of THE BBS STORY box isn't going anywhere any time soon.

All best,
Jon Mulvaney

eerik
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Re: Criterion OOP

#239 Post by eerik » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:01 am

jedgeco wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:45 am
We're less than 24 months away from the 10th anniversary of the StudioCanal title purge; it's not unreasonable to think that the Lionsgate deal was 10 years, and if so about now would be the time for SC to think about what's next. Certainly looking at the landscape since then, only Criterion and a handful of other boutique labels would be able to monetize the SC catalog.
Would that it were so simple. Lionsgate-Studiocanal partnership is a huge multi-layer deal that includes theatrical distribution in North America, Germany, Australia, etc., and it has been extended and expanded multiple times over the years. It is not just Lionsgate distributing Studiocanal's catalogue titles in the States.

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tenia
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Re: Criterion OOP

#240 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:18 am

KJones77 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:30 pm
Personally I'm buying into the theory that this isn't a rights issue but rather a sales issue. The DVD version just wasn't selling well enough.
Do Criterion really let their products go OOP when sales are low ? I thought they were still always keeping everything in print, providing they have the rights for it.

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domino harvey
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Re: Criterion OOP

#241 Post by domino harvey » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 am

I know that Blu-ray upgrades coincide with DVD stocks running low, but I don't know about releases already out on Blu

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swo17
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Re: Criterion OOP

#242 Post by swo17 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 am

I can't think of any examples of that. I know they've said that they endeavor to keep everything in print so long as they still have the rights.

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Morbii
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Re: Criterion OOP

#243 Post by Morbii » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:35 am

Technically a BD-only release is still in print, though, no?

And this has happened before too: Zatoichi is still only available as a Blu.

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swo17
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Re: Criterion OOP

#244 Post by swo17 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:38 am

That's a little different as there was never a standalone DVD release

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tenia
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Re: Criterion OOP

#245 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:40 am

I remember that too, but can understand if the reality of things might differ from any good will. However, I also can't think of a single exemple of a release getting OOP because of poor sales, hence my question to the collective mind of the forum.
Morbii wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:35 am
And this has happened before too: Zatoichi is still only available as a Blu.
I'd wonder if this isn't a specific case since the "DVD" version only originally was available through the huge $200 DF release.

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Morbii
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Re: Criterion OOP

#246 Post by Morbii » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:48 am

I admit the case is slightly different on the grand scale of things, but ultimately both cases involve DVDs being printed that are no longer, while a BD exists still.

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tenia
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Re: Criterion OOP

#247 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:58 am

But again, you might argue that in one case, the specific DVD release got OOP while in the other case, well, there was no specific DVD release in the first place to let go of. Or, say in a different way, in one case Criterion chose not to continue printing the DVD release, while in the other one, they chose not to start printing one.
I understand your point, but the practical point of view and the editorial one might be different in such a case (hence our precisions).

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movielocke
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Criterion OOP

#248 Post by movielocke » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:38 pm

tenia wrote:But again, you might argue that in one case, the specific DVD release got OOP while in the other case, well, there was no specific DVD release in the first place to let go of. Or, say in a different way, in one case Criterion chose not to continue printing the DVD release, while in the other one, they chose not to start printing one.
I understand your point, but the practical point of view and the editorial one might be different in such a case (hence our precisions).
I think this will become more common, particularly DVDs that are expensive to do a print run.

If after ten years on the market the dvd set is selling one to every ten Blu-ray editions and the print run is exhausted it would be silly to reprint the dvd edition, the dvd only and institutional customers (libraries and schools) probably already have bought it if they’re going to buy it, and the dvd only customer base is only shrinking not growing.

The title technically stays in print via Blu-ray. I would expect this to happen with three colors next, Blu-ray stays in print dvd goes oop.

Didn’t vampyr go out of print for a few months because they didn’t want to reprint it on dvd with the costly book?

I would expect this to be more Rare for a regular dvd edition just because the cost of reprinting is so marginal, however they might want to do it even then simply because they would save on warehouse costs. Would everyone be really heartbroken if el Norte and dozens of other titles had its dvd go out of print but kept the Blu-ray in print? (Chose el Norte as an example, because it’s early Blu-ray and seems to sell extremely slow since it still doesn’t have a keep case.)

Stronger sellers will probably continue to have dvd reprinting but I think this is a trend that will only grow

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Omensetter
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Re: Criterion OOP

#249 Post by Omensetter » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:22 pm

^Agree with the above, although I don't think they'd let their DVD version of Three Colors go out-of-print in the foreseeable future. Five Easy Pieces and Easy Rider are already standalones---there's no economic sense to reprinting the DVD version; if you wanted A Safe Place or Drive, He Said on DVD, you likely would have purchased it already. It was mentioned earlier, but I now do wonder if The Last Picture Show will finally be released on its own, sooner than later.

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Shrew
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Re: Criterion OOP

#250 Post by Shrew » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:13 pm

Isn't this essentially what happened to the Teshigahara set and the von Sternberg silents? The former eventually saw Woman in the Dunes pulled and released on its own as a bluray, but I don't think there was any indication that they'd lost the rights to the other two Teshigahara films (unlike with the Cocteau boxset). So I assume printing that embossed box was just two expensive, and the other two films didn't have the prestige to sell on their own (and either sales were too low to warrant a full box upgrade or materials weren't up to snuff for the other films).

I expect this will mostly affect digipack boxsets of DVDs (see also the Antoine Doinel boxset) rather than individual titles.

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