How Now Brown Blu-rays

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Ribs
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#451 Post by Ribs » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:11 pm

Why not just get it replaced? It’s just the cost of postage.

John Shade
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#452 Post by John Shade » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:23 pm

Always learning something new on this site

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therewillbeblus
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#453 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:44 pm

My copy of “Pierrot Le Fou” just stopped working- has anyone had success getting this replaced in the last few years, with its OOP status?

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swo17
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#454 Post by swo17 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:52 pm

Supposedly they will still replace it

Rupert Pupkin
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am

Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#455 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:25 am

Did someone else notice a chemical reaction (inner layer - bronzing) like a lot of French QOL Blu-Ray with two recent Criterion blu-ray titles ? :

- Andrei Rublev : the inner center of the Blu-Ray is bronzing. The other Blu-Ray was in a CD standard jewel case and the inner center of the Blu-Ray has bronzed and got now the marked of the jewel case (it happened with the QOL pressing)

I can post a photo so that you can check.

- Marlene Dietrich/Von Sternberg movies : I notice the same with the "Blonde Venus".

I sincerely hope that all the July/September 2018 movies are not from the same plant. I did notice that Criterion probably changed his plant at this time; because so far the inner center of the Blu-Ray was "white"; not a bit "bronzed" (was already a bit like this when I got it).
It's really odd that this chemical reaction happens in less than 1 year.
It took years to my BR "Walkabout" to become obviously affected by "bronzing".

I sincerely hope that Tree Of Life is not from the same plant :-/

I will post a photo so that you can I.D the factory/matrix of these Blu-Ray; just in case...

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dwk
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#456 Post by dwk » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:58 am

If I'm not mistaken, there is only one plant left in North America.

Rupert Pupkin
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#457 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:00 am

I have to check what I bought after September...
I have check some other BR I have from summer/fall 2018.... such as "Personal Shopper" : obviously for this title, the plant was not the same : this is still the BR with the inner circle which is clearly white (when you look at the inner circle from the "playable" surface of the BR), whereas the titles from July/September (Andrei Rublev, Marlene Dietrich box set) have the inner circle of the BR disk a bit bronzed. That does imply that they will have a chemical alternation (a lot of Twilight Time titles are like this and they didn't have this chemical reaction like "Blonde Venus" and "Andrei Rublev" got).

I don't have humidity % excessive or excessive heat or cold in my appartement; all the French QOL pressed Blu-Ray which got chemical alterations took about 1 year or more to be altered. Those blu-ray with problems are well documented at French web site :http://www.blurayenfrancais.com/blu-ray-defectueux.html
(QOL and other French BR pressings; not US titles)

It doesn't mean that at this point these BR are not playable anymore or will have in the future some playback issue. This is just, that if you can't put a Blu-Ray in a clean CD jewel case without the inner center of the disk reacting by bronzing and getting the "footprint" of the jewel case inner circle; that's not a very good sign.

you agree, that for some double-8 digipack like Andrei Rublev and some other Criterion digibook; you can remove the Blu-Ray and store it into a standard CD jewel case (both hub; blu-ray keepcase, even digipack, or CD are in plastic) ?
Mind you, I bought Andrei Rublev only 6 months ago.

So far I didn't check the matrix (I guess that the I.D moult is a better info to I.D which plant is it); but clearly, some Criterion blu-ray I bought recently comes from a plant, and some other obviously from another plant (when you look at the structure of the disk - surface layer; printed surface, and coil; they obviously does not come from the same plant)

Rupert Pupkin
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#458 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:12 am

but some titles which were released at the same time - such as "Personal Shopper" are obviously pressed from another factory (the inner circle of the disk is white; when you look at the "playable" surface of the disk)

occasionally, because of these double-8 Criterion digipack (when it's hard to remove meticulously the Blu-Ray above, the other Blu-Ray which is on the top of the other one) I use to take a CD standard jewel case. I have never thought about the explanation you gave here which could explain this physical reaction.

well, generally I forgot to replace some movies in their original digipack. I will learn the lesson I put it back into their digipack now.

I was just thinking : a blu-ray looks like a DVDs or a CDs, so I thought that storing it temporarly in a jewel CD case was "safe". At least you can not "scratch" the surface of the disk like when it's inserted into a book/carboard "case".
Some people have damaged (cracked) their inner circle of their blu-ray because of some f///ing digipack cardboard double-8 so it's a choice between "la peste et le choléra".

My concern here is [-o< since QOL rot is a fact for some French BR titles pressed by this factory and a few Criterion titles (Walkabout, etc...) had some bronzing effect after years; I'm concern if this is just a inner-circle "local" physical reaction and that this reaction is "isolated" from the main coil and double-layer of the blu-ray or if this is the sign of a particular way of pressing/manufacturing the coil- double-layer of the blu-ray and the beginning of a potential chemical alteration and/or fragility.

Rupert Pupkin
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#459 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:38 pm

I have checked the mould code (it's not that easy to read it) : does that provide more info about the plant ?
the IFPI number of the moult code is different for the Blu-Ray "Scarlett Empress" which looks ago - "Blonde Venus" has a bronzing inner circle which doesn't like a chemical alteration and has a different IFPI molt code number than "Scarlett Empress".
All these movies went back into their own digicase into the Marlène Dietrich box set after each viewing (by the way, what an amazing restoration for the "Scarlett Empress" and such an epic, odd, funny, amazing movie. Stunning photography !)

I have checked the other BR Criterion I have released at - about the same - time : all have a moult IFPI number different : even the theatrical cut BR of Tree Of Life is not the same than the IFIPI number for the extended cut.

On the other hand, "Andrei Rublev" which I put in a standard CD jewel case because the digicardboard with a blu-ray below and the other one on the top was not easy to handle.
Because I went lazy, I didn't put it back into the digipack. About 6 months later it got the "fingerprint" of the inner circle of the CD "hub" with bronzing alteration.

Rupert Pupkin
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#460 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:17 am

I got a reply at blu-ray.com from a nice poster regarding the mould IFPI number :
neo_reloaded;16326593 wrote:KK is for the plant in Mexico - that's the last Blu-ray replicator in North America, and I expect all or at least the vast majority of North American blu-rays to come from that plant from here on out.

I don't know what the last two numbers mean, they are just for different machines that are in use at that plant. They likely evenly spread the load across their different machines, so it's effectively random which discs are pressed on what machines. I wouldn't give the last two digits much consideration unless we started to see some pattern.
ok that explains the "made in mexico" printed on the plastic wrap.

I have to add that "visually", the inner circle when you look at the surface layer of the Criterion BR from the last years (probably from another plant), you can clearly see a "clean" white surface below the plastic of the inner circle (I mean : you could see a "clean white surface" below/under the printed/artwork of the disk when you look the side of the "playable" surface of the disk, whereas from this new plant, the inner circle looks a bit bronzed).
that's just a "visual" look; it does not imply of course that this plant doesn't know to manufacture blu-ray.
That's just this Blu-Ray alteration of the inner circle for two recent titles is not a good sign for me and reminds me the infamous QOL plant from France (my Dear country ;)

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tenia
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#461 Post by tenia » Sat May 25, 2019 3:49 pm

Following discussion on other boards, I've checked whether or not the cases had an oily layer. I don't have many failing discs but still.

I have one on pretty much all my Amaray 11mm cases (for many Disney 1-disc movies, for instance), but also on my 3-disc Toy Story 3 (Amaray 14mm) though the pivoting holders don't have this layer. I have the issue on Miracle on 34th street (1947, Elite blue 12mm), Metallica Quebec Magnetic (Amaray blue 14mm), Strangers on a Train (Elite Eco crappy pierced blue case 12mm), Puzzle of a Downfall Child (French release, Elite black 12mm) and many others. Some cases have rather splotty spots, but some have a very translucent homogeneous layer that you only see once you made a mark in it with your finger. Transculent Scanavo (Criterion, Powerhouse/Indicator) and Elite 12mm (Vinegar Syndrome) also have this. 14mm "squared" translucid Amaray (Arrow, Eureka, BFI) don't.

The discs are looking fine though, and I just scanned Miracle on my computer and it was 100% readable.

Very recent titles like Dangan Runner (Amaray 14mm bleu, nov 2018, UK), When A Stranger Calls (Amaray 14mm noir, décembre 2018, UK), or UHD/BD 4-discs combo of Deadpool 2 (Elite noir, oct 2018, NL) have these layers.

None of my "Noname" cases show this.

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movielocke
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#462 Post by movielocke » Sat May 25, 2019 3:53 pm

Could you quickly summarize what the oily case issue is? I’ve never heard of it.

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tenia
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#463 Post by tenia » Sat May 25, 2019 4:09 pm

The inside of some Blu-ray cases develop overtime a build-up of an oily undefined layer, most likely from outgassing plastic. It might be linked to BD-rotting / bronzing, especially when the discs are in direct contact with the cases.
Here is the blu-ray.com related topic and a French article about it (on a website dedicated to the issue of BD-bronzing/rotting).

If this is indeed a factor for rotting, then pretty much 80% of my 3000+ collection is in danger. Yay !

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FrauBlucher
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#464 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:10 am

Tenia, has Criterion, Eureka or any of the other companies addressed the issue of oily casing? I would think they all have exhaustive libraries that have experienced similar problems, if it is indeed a problem.

I went back to look at my older blu-ray's and I noticed the discs are not the same hue as the newer discs I have. They seem be a bit darker towards a golden coloring as opposed to silvery. I am currently watching Days of Heaven (which loaded and is playing fine), which the disc had that golden hue, not like the dark bronze discussed upthread. Plus, there is no blotchiness. Just a consistent different hue from newer discs.

Could the discs change coloring over time without effecting the playability? This feels like a crap shoot.

I think I will be going back to all my older blu-ray's and watching them. My oldest are The Third Man and Amarcord.

Edit: Well, Days of Heaven froze at the 47.50 mark and started to jump ahead with continued freezing and audio dropouts. Ugh.

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McNulty
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#465 Post by McNulty » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:17 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:10 am
.
Edit: Well, Days of Heaven froze at the 47.50 mark and started to jump ahead with continued freezing and audio dropouts. Ugh.
Thankfully, Criterion is still replacing these as I recently sent in The Lady Vanishes, Stagecoach, Ride with the Devil, Bigger Than Life, Pierrot le fou and Howard’s End and got replacements (except for Stagecoach as I’m waiting for them to restock it).

I chose not to send other titles on the bronzing list I own (Days of Heaven, Wings of Desire and M) as they looked fine and had the ‘BVDL’ code on the disc. Come to think of it though, my copies of The Lady Vanishes and Stagecoach, which both browned and wouldn’t play through also had ‘BVDL’ codes. Maybe I should send those in as well.

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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#466 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:32 pm

McNulty wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:17 pm
FrauBlucher wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:10 am
.
Edit: Well, Days of Heaven froze at the 47.50 mark and started to jump ahead with continued freezing and audio dropouts. Ugh.
Thankfully, Criterion is still replacing these as I recently sent in The Lady Vanishes, Stagecoach, Ride with the Devil, Bigger Than Life, Pierrot le fou and Howard’s End and got replacements (except for Stagecoach as I’m waiting for them to restock it).

I chose not to send other titles on the bronzing list I own (Days of Heaven, Wings of Desire and M) as they looked fine and had the ‘BVDL’ code on the disc. Come to think of it though, my copies of The Lady Vanishes and Stagecoach, which both browned and wouldn’t play through also had ‘BVDL’ codes. Maybe I should send those in as well.
Update.... once it settled down after the initial freeze somewhere at 2 minutes after that it started to play normal without any stoppage or drops. Is it safe to say it will get worse as time goes by where eventually the disc won't play at all.

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fdm
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#467 Post by fdm » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:13 pm

I do think they will continue to deteriorate. Whether they will get to the point of not playing at all or having problems playing in the future remains to be seen.

I played a good number of these (and scanned others I'd already watched) early this year and was surprised none of them had any problems. But I did turn in the first lot for exchange early on (two of them were bad at the time, I didn't quite get to all of them), so perhaps more of those would have failed in the intervening years had I kept them. Now that I've gotten to most of them I do intend to scan or play them every year or two to see if anything changes. In the meantime, I do have some outliers to get to yet, so a surprise or two may be awaiting for me still.

No reason to hold onto ones that are freezing up, you should get a (free) replacement from Criterion and be done with it.

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tenia
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#468 Post by tenia » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:41 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:10 am
Tenia, has Criterion, Eureka or any of the other companies addressed the issue of oily casing? I would think they all have exhaustive libraries that have experienced similar problems, if it is indeed a problem.
I don't think it was ever mentioned to them, while the bronzing discs were.

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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#469 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:03 pm

When I contact Mulvaney I will mention it.

I just looked at The Black Narcissus and it has this beautiful bronze coloring. :cry: I'm not even going to play it. I will go through everything to see the coloring.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#470 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:27 pm

My copy of Le Cercle Rouge also looks brown to me. This is going to drive me to the nut house. I played it and watched it most of the way through. Then at 1:52:and change it froze. When cam pans from guard to tv and tape recorder. I changed players. I went from my Sony to my LG region free player. Queued it to near that point and it played through that time code and finished with no problems. I will check all the discs that have that brown hue on the LG. The Sony is an older player. Although not sure that has anything to do with it. Anyone else have a problem with this bluray?

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domino harvey
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#471 Post by domino harvey » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:33 pm

Lots of Blu-rays have a brown color when manufactured, there’s a difference between that and the bronzing issue. I posted a comparison pic somewhere in this thread that may help

EDIT: I found my post but the pic link was dead. Here ya go

Image

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FrauBlucher
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#472 Post by FrauBlucher » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:23 am

That's what frustrating. The inconsistency of the coloring of the discs. As I go through my collection they all look different as I compare them. I guess they'll have to be played.

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modernmalaise
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#473 Post by modernmalaise » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:33 am

FrauBlucher wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:27 pm
My copy of Le Cercle Rouge also looks brown to me. This is going to drive me to the nut house. I played it and watched it most of the way through. Then at 1:52:and change it froze. When cam pans from guard to tv and tape recorder. I changed players. I went from my Sony to my LG region free player. Queued it to near that point and it played through that time code and finished with no problems. I will check all the discs that have that brown hue on the LG. The Sony is an older player. Although not sure that has anything to do with it. Anyone else have a problem with this bluray?
I can't remember if it was brown (pretty sure it wasn't), but a copy of Le cercle rouge I borrowed from a library two years ago also got stuck at about that time point, it was 1:52:21 or something like that. I remember searching around online about this defect, and it seemed it was pretty rare. Unfortunately, whether it's a result of browning or not, I can't confirm.

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tenia
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#474 Post by tenia » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:01 am

FrauBlucher wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:23 am
That's what frustrating. The inconsistency of the coloring of the discs. As I go through my collection they all look different as I compare them. I guess they'll have to be played.
Amongst the discs I own and tested for stability issues, I found 6 who turned out not to be readable anymore, and only 1 had a worrying look. All the other ones were normal-looking enough. On the other hand, a few discs I tested were looking brown-ish, but they worked flawlessly with no defective sector.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: How Now Brown Blu-rays

#475 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:22 am

I think it's a mistake to compare new discs to older discs. I think the hue changes over time. I took a magnifying glass to Days of Heaven and you can see the rot ever so slightly bleeding into the clear edges of the disc and the inside circle as well. Domino's pic was definitely helpful. I think a little while longer and my DoH disc would look like the disc on the right in Dominos pic. I did watch The Black Narcissus last night, it was absolutely fine. Very happy about that.

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