Criterion and StudioCanal

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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Murdoch
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#26 Post by Murdoch » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:08 pm

Holy Shit! Grand Illusion no longer on CC, signs and wonders...

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foofighters7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:27 pm
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#27 Post by foofighters7 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:14 pm

Interesting considering the whole "Studio Canal Collection" they have started.

Is this their shot at starting a new 'Criterion Collection'?

This will no doubt only be bad.

If they somehow were able to start releasing films in the same vain that Criterion did, that would be fine.

In fact, it would be nice to have another company really going after titles to release and do well, but I'm quite sure that will not happen, and if they do really start going after titles, I don't see them doing any films justice.

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strangerinparadise
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:54 am

Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#28 Post by strangerinparadise » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:16 pm

Thank you muchly for this information - I just ordered The Orphic Trilogy from amazon. But I wouldn't shed a tear over Criterion's Peeping Tom going OOP - their transfer is lackluster - the vastly superior French edition is the one to get!
Last edited by strangerinparadise on Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jean-Luc Garbo
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#29 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:18 pm

I didn't want to buy these now either, but I won't take a chance anyway. I think there will be a run on the bank so I'd rather be safe than wait for a big sale. I've been meaning to get Peeping Tom and Cocteau anyway.

redbill
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#30 Post by redbill » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:22 pm

FYI: I crunched the numbers on the 3 titles I wanted (pierrot,fallen idol,diary), and ordering from CC.com is considerably cheaper than Amazon ($13) and DVDPlanet ($17)...

jbaart
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#31 Post by jbaart » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:28 pm

Any predictions on which of these will become insanely expensive? I'm not asking to make money or anything (can forget about that from Europe anyways, shipping and all) but rather because I don't own any of these yet and would hate having to spend a fortune in the future. I already ordered the Pierrot le fou Blu, a no brainer. But other than that?

I'd also be interested which ones have audio commentaries or long documentaries produced by Criterion and thus tied to these editions. And which ones have better releases anywhere else anyways, like Peeping Tom.

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Cinephrenic
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#32 Post by Cinephrenic » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:33 pm

Pierrot le fou for sure.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#33 Post by knives » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:37 pm

The Orphic trilogy will be another toughie, and will probably never be released as a whole until this mess is sorted out.

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TMDaines
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#34 Post by TMDaines » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:40 pm

foofighters7 wrote:Interesting considering the whole "Studio Canal Collection" they have started.

Is this their shot at starting a new 'Criterion Collection'?

This will no doubt only be bad.

If they somehow were able to start releasing films in the same vain that Criterion did, that would be fine.
What's wrong with the Studio Canal Collection?

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dad1153
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:32 am
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Re: Criterion Web Site

#35 Post by dad1153 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:41 pm

Dr. Geek wrote:So does this mean the Essential Arthouse and Janus boxsets will go OOP as well?
Future re-stockings/prints of the boxsets will probably replace the OOP title with a title Criterion is sure they have the rights to for the long haul (i.e. Kurosawa, Bergman, etc.). What's out there in shelves will probably suffice for the long haul.

lymanlg
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:38 pm

Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#36 Post by lymanlg » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:45 pm

There are other titles license from StudioCanal, like That Obscure Object of Desire and others. The next wave to go?

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Tommaso
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#37 Post by Tommaso » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:55 pm

jbaart wrote:Any predictions on which of these will become insanely expensive?
Difficult to say. Before CC released "The small back room", the OOP R2 disc reached quite ridiculous prices at ebay. But that was two or three years ago. Meanwhile, most Powell and Pressburger fans probably have the film, and it's general appeal probably is somewhat limited, sadly.

I think "Grand Illusion", despite it being widely available, is a good candidate for exorbitant prices. It's simply the best available edition of that marvellous film, and it's spine number 1.

Dr. Geek
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#38 Post by Dr. Geek » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:57 pm

Just picked up Alphaville, The Grand Illusion, The White Sheik, and the Orphic Trilogy box set.

Shame about the situation. I hope other films aren't on the OOP chopping block . . .

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Brian C
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#39 Post by Brian C » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:03 pm

What's the status of Criterion's relationship with Lionsgate these days? I would assume that Criterion's efforts to license from Lionsgate have failed, or they wouldn't have made this announcement, but I know they've licensed from them in the past (Kicking and Screaming - any others?), and I don't know what Lionsgate's current licensing strategy is.

It's awfully tough to see Lionsgate being interested in stuff like the Orphic trilogy or the Saura box, and even stuff like Grand Illusion seems marginal at best. There's simply no precedent for a distrib of Lionsgate's size releasing large batches of (relatively) obscure titles like these. I suppose MGM has a few here and there but for the most part, Criterion has thrived for a reason, and with the DVD market on the decline it's tough to see Lionsgate's long-term interest here. It's possible that they're building a library for on-demand services down the road, and have little interest in DVD/Blu releases for most titles ... but we're still a ways off from that being the focus of home video divisions, as far as I can tell.

Obviously, I may be completely misreading the scene, and I'd love to know if that's the case if there's someone here who has industry knowledge and/or educated guesses to the contrary.

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captveg
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#40 Post by captveg » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:04 pm

My situation with the OOP titles:

Alphaville - Need to see
Carlos Saura’s Flamenco Trilogy (Eclipse Series 6) - Need to see
Le corbeau - Own it
Coup de torchon - Need to see
Diary of a Country Priest - Need to see
The Fallen Idol - Need to see
Forbidden Games (Criterion and Essential Art House editions) - Need to see
Gervaise (Essential Art House edition) - Need to see
Grand Illusion (Criterion and Essential Art House editions) - Need to see
Le jour se lève (Essential Art House edition) - Need to see
Last Holiday (Essential Art House edition) - Seen it - Ordered It
Mayerling (Essential Art House edition) - Need to see
The Orphic Trilogy - Need to see 2/3rds; want to own Orpheus - Ordered It
Peeping Tom - Have seen; didn't want to own
Pierrot le fou (DVD and Blu-ray editions) - Have seen; didn't want to own
Port of Shadows - Own it
Quai des Orfèvres - Own it
The Small Back Room - Need to see
The Tales of Hoffmann (Criterion and Essential Art House editions) - Need to see
Trafic - Have seen; didn't want to own
Le trou - Need to see
Variety Lights (Essential Art House edition) - Have seen; didn't want to own
The White Sheik - Need to see

Grand Illusion is a no-brainer for the Studio Canal collection on Blu-ray eventually, so I'm not so stressed about that one. But all those others are going to the top of my Netflix queue. Any recommendations for which ones to check out first?
Last edited by captveg on Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ianungstad
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#41 Post by ianungstad » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:08 pm

I'm sure Lionsgate doesn't care about these titles at all. The reason they licensed the Canal library is probably to get films like Terminator 2, Total Recall, Basic Instinct, Deer Hunter, etc on the cheap. I'm sure Canal mandated the vanity line and thus all these oop titles.

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Michael
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm

Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#42 Post by Michael » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:09 pm

I've seen all the titles. The one going OOP that upsets me the most is Country of a Diary Priest.

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captveg
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm

Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#43 Post by captveg » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:10 pm

Brian C wrote:What's the status of Criterion's relationship with Lionsgate these days? I would assume that Criterion's efforts to license from Lionsgate have failed, or they wouldn't have made this announcement, but I know they've licensed from them in the past (Kicking and Screaming - any others?), and I don't know what Lionsgate's current licensing strategy is.
The problem is not with Lionsgate (directly), but with StudioCanal. StudioCanal has decided to license these titles to Lionsgate instead of Criterion. Lionsgate cannot (and wouldn't, if they paid StudioCanal for licensing) sub-license them again to Criterion. That would be like Fox licensing Kagemusha to Criterion, and then Blue Undergroud licensing Kagemusha from Criterion. Can't happen - Criterion doesn't have that right.

Lionsgate's own films can be licensed to Criterion if they desire to arrange for that, of course.

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Cinephrenic
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#44 Post by Cinephrenic » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:16 pm

Some of these films were released bare bones people. At least will see some of these on Blu, unlike Criterion wouldn't be able to get to these. Yeah, it won't be Criterion quality (we seen what they did with Ran), but have to think positive.

Flike
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#45 Post by Flike » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:24 pm

Didn't see Trafic on the list initially. Not sure where that and other minor titles fit into their vision, so far...

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Brian C
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#46 Post by Brian C » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:24 pm

captveg wrote:The problem is not with Lionsgate (directly), but with StudioCanal. StudioCanal has decided to license these titles to Lionsgate instead of Criterion. Lionsgate cannot (and wouldn't, if they paid StudioCanal for licensing) sub-license them again to Criterion. That would be like Fox licensing Kagemusha to Criterion, and then Blue Undergroud licensing Kagemusha from Criterion. Can't happen - Criterion doesn't have that right.
Is this universally true, or would it depend on specific contracts? Obviously it wouldn't make sense for Criterion to license a title, and then to sub-license that title to someone else. They would have never gotten the license if they didn't want it! And it's also easy to see why Fox, in that example, wouldn't allow a sub-license. But neither aspect is clear in this case.

Now, maybe Lionsgate does have plans for releases of all these StudioCanal titles. It would be shocking if they did, but it's possible. But if they don't, then we're left to speculate on why StudioCanal would license them out to Lionsgate in the first place, and how Canal gains by licensing them as a bundle instead of piecemeal as they've (apparently) been doing for decades now.

Flike
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#47 Post by Flike » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:32 pm

I think it's an effort to consolidate their library and push the StudioCanal label as a prestige brand, directly competing with Criterion, who would obviously be unwilling to apply the branding they're working hard to push globally.

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captveg
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#48 Post by captveg » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:39 pm

Brian C wrote:These are all StudioCanal titles, right?
No. These other titles are StudioCanal licensed according to the listings on this site:

The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie
Bid Deal on Madonna Street
Diary of a Chambermaid
Billy Liar
That Obscure Object of Desire
Bob le Flambeur
Hopscotch
Le cercle rouge
Touchez pas au grisbi
The Proud Valley / Native Land (from Paul Robeson box)

Can anyone confirm if this is accurate?

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captveg
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Re: The Out Of Print Thread: Huge Criterion OOP Sale & More...

#49 Post by captveg » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:40 pm

Flike wrote:I think it's an effort to consolidate their library and push the StudioCanal label as a prestige brand, directly competing with Criterion, who would obviously be unwilling to apply the branding they're working hard to push globally.
Bingo

heredity4me
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Re: Out Of Print: StudioCanal Snatches It All Away

#50 Post by heredity4me » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:06 pm

This makes Volume 3 and 4 of the essential art house very tempting since I own none of the films in either.

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