Blu-only Releases?

[Finch]

While I haven't made a final decision yet, I've certainly become more open towards upgrading, even within the next 12 months. I've had my Oppo player for some time and a multiregion Blu player that also accepts all DVDs should be cheaper next autumn (which is when I could see myself taking the plunge). I've even started thinking twice about buying older titles on DVD if there is or may be a Blu available soon.

I think what was suggested earlier on re the February line-up sounds like a fair compromise: M on Blu, City Girl on both formats. M was always likely to sell less on SD (like Sunrise). Nick, if you guys go Blu entirely, could you at least get rid of the ugly blu-keepcases and use normal transparent keepcases with a Blu-sticker CC-style on the front?

[akaten]

I think what was suggested earlier on re the February line-up sounds like a fair compromise: M on Blu, City Girl on both formats. M was always likely to sell less on SD (like Sunrise). Nick, if you guys go Blu entirely, could you at least get rid of the ugly blu-keepcases and use normal transparent keepcases with a Blu-sticker CC-style on the front?

On the second point I'm waiting to see how they manage the 80 page book with the Godard before deciding whether the current blu-boxes need to be done away with altogether, though perhaps doing away with DVD versions would also have the effect of making it easier to set them apart.

The way you talk about Blu-Ray customers as if they are of higher importance, and that they deserve more time spent on their format, without actually showing any real evidence that Blu-ray itself will take over the market.

Not at all, but rather why not, even if only grudgingly accept for now that you may not get everything you want in the short term, if it allows in the medium to long term for more films to be given such treatment. The evidence for MOC own market reaching a crucial 50/50 point where MOC is considering the move was raised by peerpee himself. It'll happen at some point, rather it was done quickly and decisively for the benefit of the films (which may need to explained more thoroughly to win over sceptics) and the company than slowly and gradually, especially when the most vocal opponents have made clear they've no intention of crossing over at any point.

To use a specific example, in the nearby thread where it is revealed that Gaumont has plans for Jean Pierre Melville's Le Silence de la Mer on Blu Ray. Would the chances of - what I suspect was a modest rather than best seller (by MOC standards) on DVD being included on the schedule be greater were the pressures of dual format done away with, I say yes.

[TheGodfather]

Just my two cents on the whole matter:
Putting my personal opinion on the side for a moment, I don`t know if it`s the smartest thing to do. Percentage wise, not a whole lot of people are buying only blu-ray`s or have even upgraded to be able to play them. I think that if they`ll only release BD it`s defintely gonna show in their sales.
And they are forcing people to upgrade (and if they don`t they won`t be buying the releases at all wich MoC won`t wanna happen), wich I don`t like at all and think is quite arrogant.

[Blood Pie]

And what I find arrogant is people taking this decision personally as if Eureka is doing this solely to get under people's skin. The splits, as stated here in this very thread, are around 50/50. That number will NEVER get lower, only higher in favor of BD. In this regard it makes perfect sense for Eureka to do this, especially considering its the format they prefer and despite some of you not "seeing the difference" it is factually there and properly displays films as they were on the big screen. Something DVD can never do...

And if the current black Friday deals and recent price wars on Amazon are any indication its safe to say that we are going to see a HUGE bump in Blu-Ray penetration this holiday season which only means the already high Criterion/MoC Blus will get even higher splits simply from the generic run off of mainstream film lovers buying into the format...

[tenia]

The DVD era seems to have encouraged a sense of cinephilic entitlement ("I have to see this film right now!" - which sometimes includes the corollary "even if I have to steal it!") that's really alien to me, having grown up when most of these films were extremely elusive. For twenty years or more, I assumed that I'd never get a chance to see City Girl, in any form or format. So this notion that not being able to buy the disc and view it on the day of release is a personal affront seems quite bizarre. If the technology persists, the disc will still be there in two, three, four years time. That's a hell of a lot better than not being able to see the film at all.

I think it's not the issue at all. The problem is that here, as you say, if they go blu only :

money = right now. no money = 3 years waiting.

It's a really sad capitalistic logic.

Plus, as a matter of fact, I can't add another late release to buy to the already 1000 movies I want to buy. If I don't buy it now, I won't be able to until a few years, and, lucky as I am (especially for a such rare movie), the release will be OOP when I will have some extra money for it. And I don't see myself importing second hand.

I do understand the fact that, with a 50/50 split, they don't know what to do.

But with such a rare movie as City Girl, I think it would be really sad not to release it in both format.

For M, I don't see the problem for a Blu only release, cause it already has plenty of real good SD releases. But with City Girl, the alternative is not here.

It's "Upgrade !" or "Buy the $200 shitty box set".

[TMDaines]

For M, I don't see the problem for a Blu only release, cause it already has plenty of real good SD releases. But with City Girl, the alternative is not here.

It's "Upgrade !" or "Buy the $200 shitty box set".

Despite the fact I have no interest in buying City Girl right now and a huge interest in what the specs are going to be on MoC's M DVD release, I have to agree with this. It does seem strange that City Girl is going to potentially be the first Blu exclusive release when M is just around the corner.

[Gregory]

I want whatever is most secure for MoC's long-term financial well being, and as far as I can see what is most secure depends entirely on how a number of things play out with the economy. I urge them to consider this (and a lot of more basic questions about the future) in light of the scenario that the economy will not get better but worse in the next couple of years. If the economy gets worse in the coming year, it could prevent BR from becoming a really mainstream format, (which many people's gut instinct is apparently telling them is somehow inevitable).
The fact of matter is that our economy is fundamentally unsustainable: based on increasing debt, the destructive environmental effects of endless growth, and large inputs of cheap fossil fuels. We're currently in a peak oil recession to a great extent, and based on extensive research I've done on energy, I project another oil price shock in 2010 or 2011, severely constraining recovery at best and devastating key areas of the economy at worst. I know that nothing I can post here without a huge tangent could really convince anyone of these findings. My purpose is to get people to consider that the economy could get markedly worse. I can't predict exactly what is going to happen, with the rates of Blu-Ray adoption or anything else, but I think it's very much up in the air whether Blu-Ray is going to stand alongside SD-DVD as a mainstream format let alone supplant it, and if so when that will happen. If dual SD and BR releases are going to be the safest longterm economic bet, then I think that's more important than releasing a larger number of titles, though it's a little painful to say that with so many rare films I'd still like to see released.

Personally, I am waiting to buy any new equipment until my DVD player breaks or my projector lamp goes out. I don't have the money to upgrade just to be able to start watching Blu-Rays, and I'd only do so if I could get a good resale price for my current equipment.
As a result, I'm in limbo, avoiding ordering things like In the Realm of the Senses and Lola Montès until I can buy them on BR -- if that's what I'm going to end up doing. As a result I'm buying a lot fewer discs, which is what I need to be doing anyway for financial reasons.
--
Off-topic, but this talk of City Girl being the only reason people have to buy Murnau/Borzage at Fox is madness, sheer, utter madness!
EDIT: and people in the US at least should be able to get the SD of City Girl via Netflix (and try out the Borzage titles) at least, no?

[denti alligator]

That box, by the way, is not "shitty." Sure, it includes a few forgettable films, but the rest are fantastic. And you can get it for less than $200.

I support MoC's decision to go all-Blu. And I find most of the arguments by those who are dead-set against it hard to take fully seriously (note my qualifications). You complain about not being able to buy the MoC titles you love so much, but for the price of their year's catalog you could buy a Blu-ray player and put a good chunk toward upgrading your display. Start with the player (for the cost of a few MoC DVD titles) so that you can play the future MoC Blu-only releases; then save up slowly for a better display. Your old TV will die eventually, anyway, and prices are dropping very fast. The difference is not minimal.

[TheGodfather]

And what I find arrogant is people taking this decision personally as if Eureka is doing this solely to get under people's skin.

Not taking it personal at all, since I already gone blu

The splits, as stated here in this very thread, are around 50/50.

But that`s only in this thread, wich doesn`t represents MoC`s complete market. Just wondering if the people who aren`t on this forum and buying the MoC dvd`s now (and haven`t yet gone blu-ray) will stop buying MoC products once they go BD only. They probably will, wich means MoC will lose sales and customers, whereas if they keep on releasing dvd as well they`ll keep those sales.
Not sure if the choice to go BD-only will work out in MoC`s favor.

[tenia]

That box, by the way, is not "shitty." Sure, it includes a few forgettable films, but the rest are fantastic. And you can get it for less than $200.

As really well put by an other person here, the box will cost me an eye, I will have to import it by plane, and lucky as I am, I will have to pay $50 for customs, and then finding that :

- some discs don't play
- the box is completely destroyed
- the discs are completely scratched
- I don't even have a shelf big enough for it

I say 'shitty' for putting all this very simply but of course it's exaggerated.

However, even if I want to send it back for exchange, it will be just painful and very complicated.

And no, I'm not interested by all the movies in it, not at all. And I already have 2 releases of Sunrise (and am very interested by the new one for the czech print).

[Arrow]

The splits, as stated here in this very thread, are around 50/50.

But that`s only in this thread, wich doesn`t represents MoC`s complete market.

I thought those splits were a representation of MoC's complete market. As stated earlier in this thread by Nick. Or am I misunderstanding something?

[Ben Cheshire]

As really well put by an other person here, the (Murnau/Borzage/Fox) box will cost me an eye, I will have to import it by plane, and lucky as I am, I willhave to pay $50 for customs, and then finding that :

- some discs don't play
- the box is completely destroyed
- the discs are completely scratched
- I don't even have a shelf big enough for it

Who do you import from, Al-Qaeda?

[Blood Pie]

And what I find arrogant is people taking this decision personally as if Eureka is doing this solely to get under people's skin.

Not taking it personal at all, since I already gone blu

The splits, as stated here in this very thread, are around 50/50.

But that`s only in this thread, wich doesn`t represents MoC`s complete market. Just wondering if the people who aren`t on this forum and buying the MoC dvd`s now (and haven`t yet gone blu-ray) will stop buying MoC products once they go BD only. They probably will, wich means MoC will lose sales and customers, whereas if they keep on releasing dvd as well they`ll keep those sales.
Not sure if the choice to go BD-only will work out in MoC`s favor.

No. According to PP in this very thread he said that the sales splits are around 50/50 for Blus that have DVD counterparts. That's an amazingly high split. If I were in their shoes I don't think the decision would be hard. Blu Ray players are looking to finally break into the mainstream this holiday season with very low pricing and for the past month here in the states Amazon, Best Buy and Walmart have been driving BD software prices down quite a bit to stay competitive. I just ordered TWBB for $9.99 on BD...cheaper than the DVD...

As far as Eureka using this forum as a yardstick for determining a decision to go only Blu I would say the results are skewed at best. While numerous people in this thread have stated support for the decision their have been numerous people who have basically questioned their integrity, debased them to simple capitalists that only care about the bottom line and (my personal favorite) insinuated they are instigators of a class war...honestly, some of the responses have been comedy gold.

[swo17]

Fact: Putting out dual DVD/BD releases slows down the production schedule. I'm sure it doesn't quite take twice as much time to prepare a film for two formats, but for the sake of argument, let's say it takes 50% more time and resources. This has two implications:

1. To those that are saying that ceasing to produce DVDs is shutting out some customers from future titles, well, if they continued to produce DVDs as well, they would be shutting out everyone from about 1/3 of the titles that they could be producing if they had gone exclusively Blu-ray.

2. Since they would be using less resources to produce each title exclusively on Blu, the sales would not need to be as high for them to remain as profitable as before. If they currently sell about 50-50 between the two formats, and they expect Blu sales to pick up 10-20% from going BD-exclusive, this could put them close to being at about the same financial position as they were before.

Nick, if you guys go Blu entirely, could you at least get rid of the ugly blu-keepcases and use normal transparent keepcases with a Blu-sticker CC-style on the front?

Seconded. While I wouldn't call the standard issue Blu cases ugly, I do tend to associate them with more modern blockbuster types of films. CC's custom cases on the other hand are totally classy.

[foggy eyes]

There are now also two full HD projectors (both LCD) selling for under 1000 AUD. This was unimagineable just a year ago when they were 4 grand upwards. I think the day when the average cinephie joe can afford a half decent PJ and throw up a big image on his/her wall is closer than ever.

Glad you brought this up, David - this is what I'm waiting for! As small as possible, and sooner rather than later, I hope - things look promising...

[MichaelB]

As a result, I'm in limbo, avoiding ordering things like In the Realm of the Senses and Lola Montès until I can buy them on BR -- if that's what I'm going to end up doing. As a result I'm buying a lot fewer discs, which is what I need to be doing anyway for financial reasons.

Much the same is true for me - I haven't bought any Criterion DVDs that are duplicated on Blu-ray, because while I can't play their Blu-rays now, there's every possibility that I'll go multiregion in the future, hopefully by this time next year (unlikely to be much sooner as all our finances are being poured into an imminent and desperately needed loft conversion).

So Criterion is certainly losing out in the short term, but I can wait - like Zedz, I'm old enough to remember when you had to wait years to see something, often in a scratched-to-hell 16mm print, and you had no idea whether this would be your only chance to see it.

[Jonathan S]

This isn't particularly directed at MoC, and it's a purely personal (and selfish) viewpoint, but I'll be much keener to buy Blu-rays when there are a lot more titles that I want which haven't been available in a satisfactory (or any) DVD edition. Even though my interest is primarily in pre-1960 cinema, I have almost zero interest in popular classics like GWTW, Wizard of Oz and It's a Wonderful Life either because I've always disliked them or they are superficial films I used to enjoy but have seen so many times (including 35mm) that I can't really get anything more out of them in any format. Even masterpieces like M and Black Narcissus have a rather limited replay value for me, and they are already among the best-looking DVDs I own. I realise of course that it's inevitable the most popular titles and the highest quality masters are prime candidates for early Blu-ray releases.

An example of the kind of release I want is the BFI's Comrades, previously unavailable commercially [edit: well not for 20 years] and which I bought in the Blu-ray edition, even though I can't watch it in HD yet. And if first-rate Blu-rays were released of not only such widely-desired titles as Greed, The Crowd and The Magnificent Ambersons but also lesser-known gems like the 1926 Der Student von Prag, So This is Paris, The Prowler, Apache Drums (Lewton), and Fedora I'd be really excited to upgrade my current VHS or DVD versions.

At the same time, though, I have to remind myself (and perhaps I'm completely alone in this) that even very marked improvement in image (or sound) quality does not always result in the same increase of enjoyment or appreciation. Indeed, I still derive more pleasure from running my scratchy old 8mm (though complete) print of The Third Man than I do from projecting the clearly very superior DVD - and I suspect the same might be true even with the Blu-ray.

I realise this is all the perspective of a slightly jaded old-timer - jaded by both four format upgrades and by certain films too. Several decades ago, I asked a middle-aged opera friend if he'd like to accompany me to a highly-regarded production of The Magic Flute. "It's one of the most beautiful operas ever composed," he replied, "but I've heard it so many times, I never wish to hear another note of it, however well it's performed." At the time his answer perplexed me, but now I've reached the age he was then, I know what he meant - and not only about Mozart.

[bigP]

It's "Upgrade !" or "Buy the $200 shitty box set".

I still don't understand this logic. You don't have to spend $200 just because MOC take the plunge to Blu-Ray only as a way to get back at them, leaving you further away from Blu-Ray than ever. Seems very much like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[tenia]

As really well put by an other person here, the (Murnau/Borzage/Fox) box will cost me an eye, I will have to import it by plane, and lucky as I am, I willhave to pay $50 for customs, and then finding that :

- some discs don't play
- the box is completely destroyed
- the discs are completely scratched
- I don't even have a shelf big enough for it

Who do you import from, Al-Qaeda?

Amazon.com or DVDpacific. So far, no trouble, though. But, I live in France. It's like the country where half of the big mails is either lost or destroyed during journey.

It's "Upgrade !" or "Buy the $200 shitty box set".

I still don't understand this logic. You don't have to spend $200 just because MOC take the plunge to Blu-Ray only as a way to get back at them, leaving you further away from Blu-Ray than ever. Seems very much like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If they go BR only for City Girl, is there any alternative for a SD release else than the Fox boxset ?
Upgrading (region free player + HD screen) is 6 months of money-saving for me. I will have about 25 releases late to catch up. Plus, I will star having to pay my taxes, buying a car + gas, renting a flat probably in Luxemburg (that's where I'm supposed to work next year).

I don't see myself able to put an other "late release" on the list, but that's about the 5th time I write that.

[Peacock]

so tenia are you EVER going to want to get a larger screen or a bluray player? It sounds to me like your fine with dvd and hope things keep getting released sd so you can complete your collection. I think when larger tvs get cheaper and projectors keep improving and coming down in price, that you'll feel left out, watching your favorites with fairly significantly lower quality.
And as others have repeatedly said, you don't have to get a big screen just a player then someday when your ready you can upgrade screen size.

I just believe if it's a choice between releasing less or releasing more - it's obvious which is the best decision

[bigP]

It's "Upgrade !" or "Buy the $200 shitty box set".

I still don't understand this logic. You don't have to spend $200 just because MOC take the plunge to Blu-Ray only as a way to get back at them, leaving you further away from Blu-Ray than ever. Seems very much like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If they go BR only for City Girl, is there any alternative for a SD release else than the Fox boxset ?
Upgrading (region free player + HD screen) is 6 months of money-saving for me. I will have about 25 releases late to catch up. Plus, I will star having to pay my taxes, buying a car + gas, renting a flat probably in Luxemburg (that's where I'm supposed to work next year).

I don't see myself able to put an other "late release" on the list, but that's about the 5th time I write that.

Honestly, I would spend that $200 on a Blu-Ray player and buy (if it happens to be the case) the BR of City Girl, and just hook it up to a non-HD T.V.. You aren't going to lose out as you were planning to watch it SD if you bought the box set, you would have spent roughly that same amount of money, and you are now open to future MOC releases that come as BR exclusive that you feel to be essential orders. I understand it's annoying but it seems like a fairly logical solution when you are talking about spending a vast amount of money either way.

["membrillo"]

Please go BD only.

I'm tired of double dipping - and a little annoyed with the Une Femme Mariee situation.

[Steven H]

As someone who hasn't made the upgrade yet I still think this is a great idea. MoC is a specialist niche company, I don't see why so many find it illogical that they would want to continue to cater to this base, which is clearly moving into Blu-Ray (after YEARS of debate about the proper new format). It puts them a step ahead of online bootlegging which is a progressive move in that direction as well. Good luck to MoC. I hope the Blu-Ray tide continues to rise (maybe some day I'll catch up).

[Awesome Welles]

I haven't made the upgrade but I have been preparing for this by selling off most of my MoC collection. Right now I'm not buying new MoC DVDs or Blu-rays so you won't have lost a customer in me but you will be gaining a bluray customer in the future when the economy settles down, so the more that is available in the future the more I'll buy.

[Blood Pie]

As someone who hasn't made the upgrade yet I still think this is a great idea. MoC is a specialist niche company, I don't see why so many find it illogical that they would want to continue to cater to this base, which is clearly moving into Blu-Ray (after YEARS of debate about the proper new format). It puts them a step ahead of online bootlegging which is a progressive move in that direction as well. Good luck to MoC. I hope the Blu-Ray tide continues to rise (maybe some day I'll catch up).

Well said. Eureka going blu only will allow more titles to be released and will also put them a step ahead of almost every other studio or production company that releases DVDs and/or blu rays. What may seem like an unfair gamble right now will likely put them ahead of the curve in another few years. To be honest, I wish Criterion would take a cue from Eureka.

That being said, I certainly can understand the frustration from people posting outside of the states because I do not need a region free blu ray player as most of you do to enjoy not only the MoC series but also the Criterion blus.