484, 1203 Chantal Akerman Masterpieces, 1968–1978

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perkizitore
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
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Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#151 Post by perkizitore » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:45 pm

Wittsdream wrote: If you already have the Belgian Akerman box, normally it wouldn't make sense to double dip on the Eclipse set, but there are a few reasons to consider it:

1) The already mentioned added bonuses from the Criterion Jeanne Dielmann release not available in the Belgian box.
2) A potentially better English subtitle translation of the feature films.
3) There is a discrepancy in the running times for 3 of the 4 features in these sets (Hotel Monterey, Je Tu Il Elle and Les Rendez-vous D'Anna are all around 4-5 minutes longer on the Eclipse set than they are on the Belgian set, while curiously the News from Home running time is the same in both sets). Also, the running times for Jeanne Dielmann are different as well (Criterion - 201 minutes/R2 Belgian set - 197 min). One would presume the discrepancy is due to 4% PAL speedup in some of these releases, which would mean the Eclipse set is taken from a non-PAL source, therefore not converted.

The R2 set looks quite good, and stands a decent chance of trumping the upcoming Eclipse set in image quality based solely on the differences between PAL & NTSC resolutions, but die-hard Akerman completists may find it worth upgrading to the Eclipse set when it is released, along with owning Criterion's Jeanne Dielmann. I dunno! :-k
The Eclipse set will have better english subtitles, better design and most importantly it will be cheaper, especially if you buy it in a sale. Also, you hold off buying Jeanne Dielmann, who may get a better release in the future.

kinemax
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#152 Post by kinemax » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:54 am

For someone who already owns the Belgian set, is it worth a double-dip -- e.g., better video quality and/or subtitle translation?

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Wu.Qinghua
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#153 Post by Wu.Qinghua » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:34 pm

kinemax wrote:For someone who already owns the Belgian set, is it worth a double-dip -- e.g., better video quality and/or subtitle translation?
Have a look at the beaver review, kinemax ...

hangman
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#154 Post by hangman » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:53 pm

kinemax wrote:For someone who already owns the Belgian set, is it worth a double-dip -- e.g., better video quality and/or subtitle translation?
IMO not really, sure there are the stuff going for it as the beaver review points out but in the end you've got 4 other film in the cineart boxset, and if you end up planning to get the Eclipse it ends up pretty redundant. While there is slightly more extras, with the added interview (minus another though its not such a loss since Les rendevous anna wasn't that good) and booklet (which you can read online anyways), in the end its still a close copy. Even then if I were to say double dip Masters of Cinema is planning to release the complete set as well in the future, and chances are there will be more exclusive extras there so if anything I'd hold out double dipping on the criterion for the Masters of Cinema instead (though as noted it'll be a while before they get to doing it).

hangman
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Re: Eclipse Series 19: Chantal Akerman in the 70s

#155 Post by hangman » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:12 pm

Beaver the set, not much of a difference from the cineart (not like anyone didn't expect this).

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Fierias
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Re: Eclipse Series 19: Chantal Akerman in the 70s

#156 Post by Fierias » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:37 pm

I do think that the Eclipse image for News From Home is significantly better than the Cineart, which is nice since it is my favorite film in the set. Can't wait to pick it up.


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Re: Eclipse Series 19: Chantal Akerman in the 70s

#158 Post by khan0890 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:28 am

the best part is where she talks about herzog.... ;)

“He’s nuts. I don’t like him. He’s a Nietzschean but not in the right sense. There are many kinds of Nietzschean – he’s such a German asshole. I don’t trust him. I don’t say he didn’t make some interesting things – he did. But as a person he’s an asshole”

and then she pisses all over THE WHITE RIBBON.

i like herzog and haneke but akerman is f'in badass.

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knives
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Re: Eclipse Series 19: Chantal Akerman in the 70s

#159 Post by knives » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:31 am

Aww, that podcast made me a fan.

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Napier
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Re: Eclipse Series 19: Chantal Akerman in the 70s

#160 Post by Napier » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:06 pm

I'm not sure I understand the grading policy on the DVD reviews here. How is 1/10 an easy recommendation?

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Matt
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Re: Eclipse Series 19: Chantal Akerman in the 70s

#161 Post by Matt » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:59 pm

Napier wrote:I'm not sure I understand the grading policy on the DVD reviews here. How is 1/10 an easy recommendation?
The 1/10 is the grade for the supplements. There is more discussion on this issue here.

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gyorgys
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Re: Eclipse Series 19: Chantal Akerman in the 70s

#162 Post by gyorgys » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:59 pm

knives wrote:Aww, that podcast made me a fan.
Of whom? :-k

ezmbmh
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#163 Post by ezmbmh » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:34 pm

Well, I resisted this big time for the first day, praying for a jump cut, a dolly, anything, saying over and over “I get it! The deathlike tedium of routine! But do we need to see every single dish washed and every crumb picked off the table? And there’s three more hours?”

Then day two and the events at the Post Office, the babysitting, the lovely rictus smile on Delphine Seyrig’s face (Julianne Moore without the Ritalin) growing lines and small hard muscles. By day three I was not only hooked, I couldn’t stop watching every move she made, and what I’d dismissed as repetitive mise-en-scene—the hallways made to be empty, the doors to be closed, lights to be turned out, beds to be swaddled and hidden—took on an aspect of entrapping me, minute by minute, along with her.
SpoilerShow
Her dropping the shoe brush was a gun shot, burning the potatoes a real—not ironic--catastrophe.
It felt, perhaps oddly enough, like a great “experience it as it happens” horror film, like Blair Witch (yeah I loved it, first time in the dark, anyway) where you want to get up and leave and you can’t.
SpoilerShow
As to the end, I bought it (though if murder was this easy, wouldn’t we all try it?). The most moving, intolerable, poignancy of the film was that it’s not only about accepting the trap, you need to love it, to maintain it, to make keeping it functioning your main purpose, your only shot. And when she finally explodes it, she sits there, in a whole new-undoubtedly worse—trap. And yet, she almost smiles at one moment—free.
A modern horror classic. Dante in real time.

Mark Metcalf
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#164 Post by Mark Metcalf » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:40 pm

While I admire the film, Jeanne Dielman, I can't imagine what I would gain by ever watching it a 2nd time.

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tajmahal
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#165 Post by tajmahal » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:18 pm

Mark Metcalf wrote:While I admire the film, Jeanne Dielman, I can't imagine what I would gain by ever watching it a 2nd time.
I feel the same. I'm glad I watched it, but at over three hours, I could re-watch two Jacques Tatis', and that would be so much more rewarding. (I DO think I could watch Tati peel a bag of potatoes more than once, though)

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tartarlamb
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#166 Post by tartarlamb » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:06 pm

Really? I find the film very entertaining. The excess detail is so meticulously arranged, and the sense of composition is immaculate. Its eye candy. And Delphine Seyrig's nervous laboring adds a nervous and kinetic energy that belies the quietness and stillness. I'm with ezmbmh on this one: seeing the building and cultivation of a ritual of domestic labor, and its gradual, subtle breakdown actually makes for some enthralling, even nail-biting, cinema. The film is a lot more than the cheap thrill of a surprise ending. Multiple viewings can be pretty rewarding.

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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#167 Post by Magic Hate Ball » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:04 am

This is the only film I've ever seen that made potatoes exciting.

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jbeall
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#168 Post by jbeall » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:22 pm

I watched it recently and was quite surprised to find it riveting. Actually, I agree with ezmbmh that it's viewable as a horror film. The first time I watched The Exorcist, a large part of the suspense and horror came every time the priests were walking up the staircase. Every time I was terrified of what the girl would look like this time. As Jeanne's routine begins to break down, I had the same sense of unease--what's she going to mess up next?--and kept expecting that at any moment she'd go off the rails.

Honestly, I didn't expect to like the film nearly as much as I did, but for me this is one of Criterion's best releases from the past year, and I could see going back to it again from time to time.

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Magic Hate Ball
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#169 Post by Magic Hate Ball » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:15 am

Oh, so, does anyone know what that light was outside the living room window?

ezmbmh
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#170 Post by ezmbmh » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:58 pm

I'm guessing some neon sign, there's a weird patterning effect, if I recall correctly. Whatever it is physically, it's another use of light--like the way she uses turning out the light in the hallway, the bedroom--and clearly a metaphor for the numbing randomness and repetition without meaning that finally becomes intolerable.

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Napier
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#171 Post by Napier » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:04 pm

So, Jeanne never goes and picks her sons shoes up that she left with the cobbler? The film was 201 minutes, and it really irked me. Just something I noticed. :-k

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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#172 Post by cdnchris » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:09 pm

She was a little busy with other things I guess.

ezmbmh
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#173 Post by ezmbmh » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:25 pm

Next on her to-do list

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Tom Hagen
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#174 Post by Tom Hagen » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:40 pm

Spoiler tags, guys!!!1!

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dad1153
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#175 Post by dad1153 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:36 pm

Watched "Jeanne Dielman" this afternoon, my first Chantal Akerman flick, along with ALL the extras on the second disc (and no, I didn't know the 'big twist' going in). The first 20 minutes were sheer torture as Akerman's mise-en-scène became clear; I just didn't know if I could take three more hours of THIS. I stuck through it and, during the scenes with Jeanne and Sylvain's first nighttime routine (don't these people own a TV set?), I figured maybe I could split the movie over two or three days. Then around the hour mark, when Jeanne is deep into her early second day routine, something clicked when I realized I was fascinated by the way she was folding papers and lenin in the exact same way/pattern. Like Teshigahara's "Antonio Gaudi," the dullness of a rough start had given way to a fascination with Jeanne's everyday activities in which the most minute deviations from the established routines (a dropped utensil, a light left on in an empty room, etc.) felt like a canon going off in the hallway. By the third day I was literally thinking of the million different ways the mounting cracks in Jeanne's routines could doom her. Leaving the window open in her bedroom? Shoot, a burglar might climb through it and kill her. She left the cover off the vase where she keeps her money? Shit, Sylvain is going to find out what she does! Every movie creates its own little universe in which its own rules are set. By that old movie-making standard "Jeanne Dielman" is a triumph of turning most narrative movie's discarded moments (the stuff screenwriters don't even bother thinking about) into a cinematic world of its own. I loved the static cameras not tipping us at all about how Chantal felt one way or another (very Ozu-like but in a disquieting and discomforting way); when she first does a reverse-camera shot from across the kitchen I literally screamed 'Holy Shit' as if I had spotted a tracking shot in a color Ozu flick. :-s Akerman asks a lot of her audience, some of whom may not be physically/emotionally ready for this type of movie; those with the patience and tenacity to stick through it will be deeply rewarded. There are lengthier movie epics ("The Human Condition," "Gone With the Wind," etc.) but none as intimate and confined to as small a cast, physical space and human dimension as this one.

Anyone else notice that in this movie nobody has actual one-on-one conversations with anybody? Just monologues or lines of dialogue that bounce from whoever is "listening." They might be related (and look like many a mother-son relationship in the real world that Akerman observed growing up) but the Dielmans might as well be strangers living under the same roof. The closest to an actual conversation in the movie is the neighbor that drops her baby at Jeanne's on the second day. Even then we're deprived of even the most basic visual info of who Jeanne is talking to, which tells us everything we need to know about what value Jeanne places on this arrangement. "Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles" isn't just the movie's title and the address/location in which 90% of the movie takes place. It's the whole of this character's life since her previous routine (with the American husband that passed away six years prior) went away, the only 'one' (should be 'only thing' but to Jeanne her place and routines are more meaningful than actual one-on-one relationships with anybody; cooking Sylvain's meal means more to her than whether he likes/eats it or not) she gets and wants. This makes the finale all the more powerful because, the way I see it, this routine of Jeanne's has been going on for a few years (assuming she wasn't turning tricks when her husband was alive). The movie is a look at the last three days of this ongoing routine, and the last shot is lengthy-enough to make us contemplate (just like Jeanne is) what will become of her routine now that she'll be going away to a place where other people will determine her routines for her. The routines of the other characters (can't-do-shit-by-himself Sylvain, Jeanne's clients, the sister in Canada, the businesses that receive her business, etc.) will also be up-ended, in both small and big ways, when the routine stuff that used to be taken for granted resonates for its absence in the lives of those it used to affect.

"Jeanne Dielman" is also lengthy-enough to allow one to imagine what it's static shots and minute attention to detail would look like in high-def Blu-ray. And that, my friends, makes me a sad panda that my first experience with "Jeanne Dielman" had to be a compressed-to-fit-in-one-disc DVD. :(
Last edited by dad1153 on Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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