484, 1203 Chantal Akerman Masterpieces, 1968–1978

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#226 Post by tenia » Fri May 05, 2017 1:06 pm

cdnchris wrote:
tenia wrote:So I was wrong and The Fanciful Norwegian was right about the upgrade here. Good thing to learn, then.
It's more that I fucked up and gave the wrong information to begin with ](*,)
Oh, I was just referencing the discussion we had earlier about the allocated disc space for the extras. Since I have the impression that Criterion don't often upgrade extra short movie on reissues or upgrades, I guessed that Saute ma ville would suffer the same fate but it's good to know it hasn't and is instead using the newer restoration.

Quite a happy ending in the end. :)

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#227 Post by zedz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:45 pm

I rewatched this last night as a 'treat' for my wife. (The treat was a cosy night in: Jeanne Dielman was the price I exacted.) I figured there was a 70% chance she'd love it and a 30% chance she'd run screaming from the room. Fortunately, it was the former.

She tuned into the ritual and routine immediately (half an hour in, she made the wonderful comment: "I wish I was like her: organized") and immediately noticed when things started to slip. The film really is wonderfully suspenseful, a movie where "don't forget to fold up the newspaper and put it in the cupboard!" takes the place of "don't go back into the haunted house!"

For those keeping score, she had no idea about the ending - or even that there was going to be an 'ending' - and
SpoilerShow
was genuinely shocked in the moment, but thought it was a bit of a cheap gimmick immediately afterwards.
She also noticed something right away that I'd never noticed before and will now never be able to un-notice. I'll do two consecutive spoilers here. The first one indicates what it is in general terms, the second one goes into more detail. Don't click on either of these if you've never seen the film, because it's likely to distract you completely from the main action. If you've seen the film, proceed with caution.
SpoilerShow
The Mystery of Jeanne Dielman's Kitchen Chairs
SpoilerShow
In some shots there are two chairs, on either side of the table; in others there's only one, on the sink side. This starts in the very first scenes in the kitchen (cleaning the shoes - one chair; takes shoes into living room / dining room / second bedroom; returns to kitchen - two chairs). I assumed there was some kind of elision here, and the chair would subsequently be revealed to have an alibi, but the inconsistency persists throughout the film, that right-hand chair vanishing momentarily in sequences which seem to be relatively contiguous, with no potential explanation of where it might have gone, and not many places for it to hide in such a cramped flat!

Any sensible theories welcomed, but I'm pretty sure it's just a simple continuity error, probably caused from not remembering to replace the chair when they would have had to remove it for the shots where the camera is taking its place (i.e. the across-table shots like those represented on the Criterion cover.
Something else I noticed this time around was a small but crucial element of causality. Whatever happens to her when she fucks Jacques Doniol-Valcroze does not precipitate the breakdown in her routine. That is, she doesn't start making mistakes because of some psychic disturbance that takes place during that encounter, be it an orgasm, a rape or whatever. The routine has already been disrupted because that encounter took much longer than usual, and the potatoes have been overcooked (not burnt, as she later comments that she could have mashed them, but didn't because that would have screwed with her OCD in another way by disrupting her regimented weekly menu, which called for mashed potatoes the following evening). It's the overcooking of the potatoes that causes a chain reaction that really disrupts her routine: she has to start the potatoes from scratch, doesn't have any, has to go out for more, which makes their evening meal and subsequent outing later than usual, and possibly also contributes to her radical temporal disruption the following day, making her daily rounds far earlier or later than usual. I'm glad to have noticed this, because it puts more causal weight on the character's existing, oppressive OCD than on the more sensational (and, I find, more than a little silly) Oh-My-God-She-Had-Her-First-Orgasm-And-Can't-Handle-It! explanation that Akerman seems to favour in later interviews. The two 'explanations' aren't mutually exclusive, and they're both about a woman who keeps her life formidably controlled losing control through no fault of her own.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#228 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:52 pm

SpoilerShow
Sometimes when I need to reach something from a high shelf, I will take a chair from the kitchen table to use as a stepstool, and not return it for hours or days.
I hope this helps.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#229 Post by zedz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:15 pm

swo17 wrote:
SpoilerShow
Sometimes when I need to reach something from a high shelf, I will take a chair from the kitchen table to use as a stepstool, and not return it for hours or days.
I hope this helps.
Akerman is so obsessed with addressing offscreen space in this film that we actually see Jeanne reach out of frame to do this several times, all on her lonesome, so no IT DOESN'T HELP!

Excuse me, I need to go out now and search all over town for a button.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#230 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:57 am

I like the idea that the potatoes are the most significant aspect over anything else. As someone who since last watching the film now cooks a weekly Wednesday curry (I have an apron and everything to make sure that I don't get splashed too much from the oil whilst cooking chicken in the wok!), I find that I always want to start cooking at a particular time because I know everything will generally be done by another certain time. Give or take ten or twenty minutes, but for example I usually want to start cooking at 5.30 p.m. and aim to be finished with the meal on the table by 7 p.m., but that has a knock on effect on everything else, so if I get home at 5 p.m. as normal I have half an hour to change and so on before getting cooking, but if I'm late or the train is cancelled or something crazily unexpected (though with trains the way they are, its kind of expected! :wink: ), then that's had the 'knock on' effect already, so I might not even start cooking until 7 p.m., finished by 8.30.

Especially when its part of a packed work day, that timetabled routine of things working the way they're supposed to gets even more important because I'm not just thinking about wanting to be done by a particular time (to eat in front of a particular show or something), but also that I want to get the dishes washed and tidied in a timely fashion before bed too. If some activity is getting slotted into a schedule, or sliding later because of unforeseen circumstances, that's knocking something else I could have been doing (like a bit of hoovering, or getting that washing sorted! Let alone that stack of unwatched Fritz Lang films!) either later or into an entirely different day. Which impacts on that day's activities during that few free hours in the evening, etc, etc...

I don't think its just OCD but a sense of being able to cope (and that idea of being good to be organised!), and it is really frustrating (more frustrating than such a minor thing would seem to onlookers) when something happens to break that. Especially if its not just having to re-cook but to actually have to make an unplanned trip to the shops for emergency supplies! I think that's why I've inherited my mother's tradition of having a calming glass of wine on hand during cooking (though I often thought that ran the risk of increasing the likelihood of mistakes the more sozzled you get, so have replaced it with a glass of cola instead!)

So these days I'm finding it more distressing rather than less to see Jeanne forgetting the tiniest details! When, say, I forget to have a wooden spoon to hand to stir the rice and have to quickly rush to dig one out of the drawer or wash another, that's an almost insignificant change in the cooking routine, but it throws me off my game to a certain extent, so I can certainly sympathise now! Items being in the wrong place or doing stuff in the wrong order (or feeling that you are doing it at the wrong time) can cause lots of problems, especially in food preparation!

And of course the son doesn't really seem too bothered one way or the other at the meal! But its having it there on the table for him, and having the meal come up to standard, that is the most important thing, perhaps over and above the response of the person who is actually eating it!

Which is most likely why the main reason people buy microwave ready meals! (But its a great sense of achievement to have actually cooked something too!) Or just throw those buttonless shirts or shoes with holes in them away, since its easier and quicker to buy a whole new item rather than face scheduling a potentially fruitless trek around the neighbourhood stores to replace the current ones.

User avatar
NABOB OF NOWHERE
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:30 pm
Location: Brandywine River

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#231 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:39 am

I have just started on penning the re-make. 'Colin Rowbottom 38 Acacia Avenue Tumbridge Wells TN1 3BT'

An early draft has Colin running amok with a wok in a crowded commuter train when it is held up due to leaves on the track and he will not fulfill his 5.30 deadline.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#232 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:47 pm

I also make a mean chilli con carne (that can be day two, after I've finished scrubbing the bath). And then I have a nervous breakdown whilst trying to make my signature bacon hotpot, only to find that I've run out of tomato purée! (EDIT: Unfortunately it appears that John Shuttleworth got there first, and I could in no way compete with his rendition of "Early Tea"!)

But seriously, if you want to go out somewhere (as Jeanne and her son do of an evening), you want to be serious about your cooking schedule!
Last edited by colinr0380 on Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
NABOB OF NOWHERE
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:30 pm
Location: Brandywine River

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#233 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:15 pm

My agent tells me that Ewan McGregor has shown interest in the project.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#234 Post by zedz » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:50 pm

But he's such a fan of Jacques Doniol-Valcroze (who knew?) that he wants to play the leaves on the tracks.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#235 Post by domino harvey » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:24 pm

Someone tell Ewan McGregor to participate in our upcoming French New Wave list then!

User avatar
NABOB OF NOWHERE
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:30 pm
Location: Brandywine River

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#236 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:47 am

I'll have a word with his Mum. She used to be a near neighbour of mine (Crieff, Perthshire)...True,

User avatar
NABOB OF NOWHERE
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:30 pm
Location: Brandywine River

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#237 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:26 pm

Just heard back from Mrs McGregor. Ewan was highly flattered with the offer but is committed until 2032 - including Star Wars XXIV .
The good news is that Ewen Bremner is up for playing the potatoes. (Trainspotting fans will understand the attraction).

User avatar
HitchcockLang
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:43 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#238 Post by HitchcockLang » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:05 am

Finally got around to watching this with my wife and we both loved it. I had, unfortunately, had the ending spoiled for me (my wife had not) but we both found it a hypnotic and rewarding experience. It's one of those viewings that I keep thinking about in quiet moments. I was particularly enamored with the experimentation with cinematic time. Though it feels like a realtime film, using the dilation of cinematic time to artistic effect, I also noted many instances of accelerated time (who babysits for 2 minutes or knits for 45 seconds at a go?). Akerman seems to have a real sense of when to rush a sequence or when to double down (my wife, for example, says she would never spend so much time kneading a meatloaf yet this dilated action is one of the most absorbing scenes in the film). I did have a couple of questions that left me baffled?

1) Where do Jeanne and her son go every night after dinner? It doesn't seem to ever be revealed. My wife guessed it had something to do with Jeanne's dead husband but I thought I noticed an urn in her apartment. Perhaps it doesn't really matter where they go, only THAT they go, emphasizing Jeanne's obsessive adherence to her schedule even on the second day as her routine
SpoilerShow
spirals out of control and her son would prefer to stay home after a late dinner but Jeanne insists.
2)
SpoilerShow
I watched Akerman's comments on the film and her explanation of Jeanne experiencing her first ever orgasm on the second day and that being the cause of her schedule's disruption, and then also explaining her need to kill the next man who gives her an orgasm in order to preserve the order in her life was interesting but I wonder how I was meant to reach that conclusion without the director telling me her intentions. As a big fan of reader-oriented criticism, the director's intentions don't automatically equal the definitive interpretation for me but I'm wondering if I missed any textual evidence to suggest the orgasm on the second day. Obviously the disruptions begin (with the overcooked potatoes) after the sexual experience on that day, but that could just as easily be interpreted a thousand other ways: sexual service as part of a societal expectation of a woman's domesticity and the undue stress of these obligations on a woman's psyche for instance. Is it because her hair is disheveled and her son remarks on it? Was that supposed to spell out an orgasm? I assumed it was because she had no time for a bath on the second day. Obviously, the orgasm on the third day is quite clear, but without a clear signal to the audience about Dielman's sexual awakening on the second day and the anxiety that it brings, I find it difficult to reach Akerman's interpretation of her own film in an organic way.

User avatar
dustybooks
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:52 am
Location: Wilmington, NC

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#239 Post by dustybooks » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:19 am

I had a frustrating reaction to this film -- which I saw last night for the first time -- in that I completely understood and appreciated what it was doing, the points being made and the reason for the length and all of the intimate details and repetitions. I even admired it. But as an actual viewing experience, it didn't move me. I feel I got more out of reading this thread and everyone's various responses (particularly colinr0380's), then looking up a few interviews with Akerman, than I did from physically watching it. Then again, I can't define exactly what I might have expected; it's not as if one can count on a film this deliberately paced to "throttle" you in some way. So part of me believes that, in my boredom (a word I use loosely, as I was perfectly attentive to the film, my mind just wandered a number of times) and anxiety and vague sense of dread, I'm actually responding exactly the way Akerman would have wanted. It's just that as a cinematic experience, it simply wasn't to my taste. But how reductive it sounds to say that.

One thing that keeps coming back to me after the fact: the only characterization of the son I keep reading (around and about, not so much here) is that he's annoying and needy, and I do see that, and yet
SpoilerShow
the questions he directs to Jeanne about sex on the second night, even though they clearly disturb her, don't strike me as untoward -- certainly less so than her reaction of saying it's pointless to talk about. I wondered if part of Akerman's point here might be similar to what Larry McMurtry vaguely posits in the novel The Last Picture Show: that a socially ordained, behind-closed-doors attitude toward talking/thinking about sex causes repression that radiates further out into all other areas of life. I suppose this would fit with Akerman's declarations -- somewhat disputed by zedz above in a post I largely agreed with -- that her first orgasm, unseen by us, on the second night was the first step to her unraveling.

While I'm behind spoiler tags, I agree with several others that the staging of the murder was so unrealistic and yet so lacking in drama that it took me out of the film, and came across actually as unintentionally humorous.
At any rate, I do want to thank everyone who's posted on this thread over the years for helping my thoughts become more coherent. I watched this just before bed last night and dreamed of breading meat.

User avatar
R0lf
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 am

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#240 Post by R0lf » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:00 am

If you understand but don't enjoy JEANNE DIELMAN try watching Seyrig in DAUGHTERS OF DARKNESS and then going back to it. Seeing the deftness with which she plays a breezy and fun role will win you over to her acting and provide perspective to the nuance that goes into the performance here. Her secondary characters in DISCREET CHARM, STOLEN KISSES, DONKEY SKIN, are all great too but don't have as much screen time. There is a lot of deadpan in Dielman which should make it quite enjoyable to watch.

This also applies to Seyrig's other famous stilted performances in INDIA SONG and MARIENBAD.

User avatar
dustybooks
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:52 am
Location: Wilmington, NC

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#241 Post by dustybooks » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:46 pm

Thanks, I'll certainly take a stab at this; so far I have only otherwise seen her in Day of the Jackal and Stolen Kisses. And I actually was quite taken with her performance here.

fogbank77
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:24 am

Re: Eclipse Series 19: Chantal Akerman in the 70s

#242 Post by fogbank77 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:49 am

Chantal Akerman's final book My Mother Laughs has recently been translated into English. Here.

CriterionPhreak
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:57 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#243 Post by CriterionPhreak » Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:16 am

A 1979 TV episode from Hong Kong borrows much of the plot points and ideas from "Jeanne Dielman." It is more conventionally filmed, in that it has more dialog, even voice-overs, to express the character's feelings, making everything more apparent. It adds certain plot points not found in "Jeanne Dielman." The mother reads his son's diary at one point and finds out he is just as unhappy. At one point she realizes she is losing her "side gig" due to age, adding to her anxiety. When she is about to "service" one of her clients, she reacts with horror when the client is actually one of the shopkeepers she sees everyday during her errands. And the biggest departure from "Jeanne Dielman" is that the episode opens with the woman already in police custody, followed by the whole story in flashbacks.

The show was called 女人三十 (or "I Am a Woman" in English). It was a series of 13 one-hour, stand-alone episodes, each dealing with a separate female protagonist having an existential crisis of some kind. The Jeanne Dielman-inspired episode is the best, IMO.

I saw all 13 episode on an all-region NTSC DVD that was released in Hong Kong in 2008 but has long been out of print (Yesasia page). This was also where I got the screen captures below. The DVD has Chinese subs only.

Image

Image

Image

Image

CriterionPhreak
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:57 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#244 Post by CriterionPhreak » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:15 pm

Despite Akerman's own explanation of the character, my interpretation of the film and the character is pretty straightforward: her uneventful life makes her become more and more unsettled, eventually unraveled, leading to an emotional breaking point. If we took out prostitution, her life probably wouldn't seem nearly as bad, albeit still boring and uneventful (and unfulfilling, meaningless, etc.) -- that is, if we consider selling one's body is "bad," although many of today's OnlyFans creators would say otherwise. Akerman's film is still a fascinating portrayal regardless.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#245 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:28 am

Sounds like academia should be braced for spate of new PhD theses on the subject of "Is Amouranth in a horse mask bouncing on a bed whilst whinnying seductively the Jeanne Dielman that the 21st century deserves?"

(And whilst I can never forgive you for that follow up post bringing that image to mind, thanks for telling us about the Hong Kong television take on the film CriterionPhreak!)

User avatar
HinkyDinkyTruesmith
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:21 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#246 Post by HinkyDinkyTruesmith » Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:34 pm

CriterionPhreak wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:15 pm
If we took out prostitution, her life probably wouldn't seem nearly as bad, albeit still boring and uneventful (and unfulfilling, meaningless, etc.) -- that is, if we consider selling one's body is "bad," although many of today's OnlyFans creators would say otherwise.
I find this a rather obtuse and offensive comment. When you frame it that way, how can't it be bad? Thankfully sex work is not a commodity industry, but a service industry, where one performs services. You don't sell your body, your body is still your own.

User avatar
Noiretirc
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: VanIsle
Contact:

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#247 Post by Noiretirc » Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:56 pm

Yeah, I've been quietly scratching my head over that post. And I foolishly clicked on that link. There's 10 seconds that I'll never reclaim.

There's been a lot said in the S+S thread which should really be here.

I discovered this film about a year ago and I was completely mesmerised by it. After a couple of quick rewatches, I had to ask myself how in the world did Akerman cause me to not take my eyes off the screen for even a second. I still have no clear understanding of how she captivated me in this way. In my viewings an intense buildup to something evil is always happening. Some decry the ending, but for me it is a completely logical explosion to all that precedes it.

User avatar
The Fanciful Norwegian
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:24 pm
Location: Teegeeack

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#248 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:32 pm

CriterionPhreak wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:16 am
A 1979 TV episode from Hong Kong borrows much of the plot points and ideas from "Jeanne Dielman." It is more conventionally filmed, in that it has more dialog, even voice-overs, to express the character's feelings, making everything more apparent. It adds certain plot points not found in "Jeanne Dielman." The mother reads his son's diary at one point and finds out he is just as unhappy. At one point she realizes she is losing her "side gig" due to age, adding to her anxiety. When she is about to "service" one of her clients, she reacts with horror when the client is actually one of the shopkeepers she sees everyday during her errands. And the biggest departure from "Jeanne Dielman" is that the episode opens with the woman already in police custody, followed by the whole story in flashbacks.

The show was called 女人三十 (or "I Am a Woman" in English). It was a series of 13 one-hour, stand-alone episodes, each dealing with a separate female protagonist having an existential crisis of some kind. The Jeanne Dielman-inspired episode is the best, IMO.
Thanks for this! I've heard of the series (only because Chow Yun-fat had an early role in one episode) but had never read anything in-depth about it. It's available to stream legally (at least in North America) through TVB Anywhere, but with no subtitles of any kind. The episode in question is #7 and per the credits was written and directed by Cheuk Pak-tong, who perhaps unsurprisingly started out as a critic and has worked in academia since the early '90s, authoring among other books the English-language Hong Kong New Wave Cinema (1978–2000).

CriterionPhreak
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:57 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#249 Post by CriterionPhreak » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:37 am

HinkyDinkyTruesmith wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:34 pm
CriterionPhreak wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:15 pm
If we took out prostitution, her life probably wouldn't seem nearly as bad, albeit still boring and uneventful (and unfulfilling, meaningless, etc.) -- that is, if we consider selling one's body is "bad," although many of today's OnlyFans creators would say otherwise.
I find this a rather obtuse and offensive comment. When you frame it that way, how can't it be bad? Thankfully sex work is not a commodity industry, but a service industry, where one performs services. You don't sell your body, your body is still your own.
Sex work in the 1970s or before cannot be thought of in the same terms as sex work in the 2020s because women had a lot of less protection back then. So you can't really apply today's progressive viewpoint towards yesterday's circumstances, even if they are the same circumstances on paper -- otherwise you would be the obtuse one. And "Jeanne Dielman" happens to be set 40+ years ago when the welfare of women was far below acceptable levels in many areas.

CriterionPhreak
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:57 pm

Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#250 Post by CriterionPhreak » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:51 am

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:32 pm
CriterionPhreak wrote:
Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:16 am
A 1979 TV episode from Hong Kong borrows much of the plot points and ideas from "Jeanne Dielman." It is more conventionally filmed, in that it has more dialog, even voice-overs, to express the character's feelings, making everything more apparent. It adds certain plot points not found in "Jeanne Dielman." The mother reads his son's diary at one point and finds out he is just as unhappy. At one point she realizes she is losing her "side gig" due to age, adding to her anxiety. When she is about to "service" one of her clients, she reacts with horror when the client is actually one of the shopkeepers she sees everyday during her errands. And the biggest departure from "Jeanne Dielman" is that the episode opens with the woman already in police custody, followed by the whole story in flashbacks.

The show was called 女人三十 (or "I Am a Woman" in English). It was a series of 13 one-hour, stand-alone episodes, each dealing with a separate female protagonist having an existential crisis of some kind. The Jeanne Dielman-inspired episode is the best, IMO.
Thanks for this! I've heard of the series (only because Chow Yun-fat had an early role in one episode) but had never read anything in-depth about it. It's available to stream legally (at least in North America) through TVB Anywhere, but with no subtitles of any kind. The episode in question is #7 and per the credits was written and directed by Cheuk Pak-tong, who perhaps unsurprisingly started out as a critic and has worked in academia since the early '90s, authoring among other books the English-language Hong Kong New Wave Cinema (1978–2000).
I just watched this episode again. The mother actually has a respectable "main job" as a domestic worker for another family. This is also copied from "Jeanne Dielman," in which we see Jeanne babysits for someone else. In the HK version, the mother doesn't serve clients in her own home; she goes to someone else's apartment that is used quasi-legally as a brothel, where several other sex works of various ages also work. We also see the mother engage in some risky investment to make more money. But the HK version doesn't mention her and her son's past history the way "Jeanne Dielman" does in detail.

For more info on this series, here is what Yesasia's English page says:

"TVB's classic drama I'm a Woman explores the many facets of being a modern woman in 1970s Hong Kong. Progressive for its time, this 13-episode short drama series tells 13 different tales of women forging their own paths in the name of life and love. Each episode features a different cast and story, from the club girl who falls in love with a youth and the mother-daughter duo fighting for the same man to the recent immigrant who is slowly transformed by the city and the mistress who helps her lover's daughter pursue romance. I'm a Woman boasts an amazing who's who's line-up of television's biggest names of the 70s including Lydia Shum, Louise Lee, Susanna Kwan, Wong Suk Yee, Regina Tsang, Maggie Lee Lam Lam, Chan Mei Kei, Lee Heung Kam and Chan Yee Hing. There's also Helen Poon, Ching Hor Wai, David Lo, and Kam Kwok Leung who pulled double duties as actor and screenwriter. Just the pure star power of the cast makes I'm a Woman an instant television classic and a must-have for fans of early TVB."

This type of TV dramas was not really TVB's forte. Another TV network at the time, RTHK, was known for them and great at them. TVB copied the style and storytelling, and made a few TV series out of that, sometimes with good effort. But the results weren't quite as good as RTHK's work, which often had more powerful stories and often better filmmaking as well. Part of Ann Hui's "Vietnam Trilogy" was a TV episode made by RTHK.

P.S. TVB has also been putting a lot of its old TV series on YouTube for free viewing but with tons of ads.

Post Reply