282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
Message
Author
User avatar
denti alligator
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: "born in heaven, raised in hell"

#51 Post by denti alligator » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:21 am

I'm looking forward to getting this. There were many fine releases in 2005, I'm sure many of us had to skip some of the expensive ones for the time being.

And I agree that Keane is a decent commentator, as is Mulvey (if you like her particular brand of Theory-heavy analysis).

User avatar
porquenegar
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:33 pm

#52 Post by porquenegar » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:47 am

FilmFanSea wrote:I continue to be surprised that the Wajda box set received so little consideration in end-of-year voting (it didn't even make DVD Beaver's Top 50). Did most people not buy or view this set, or was it downgraded by Annette Insdorf's commentary on Ashes and Diamonds? For the record, I enjoy listening to Insdorf: she prepares meticulously, she has an infectious enthusiasm, and I find her easy to listen to. I guess I am not put off by her "nauseatingly sibilant manner of speaking," either.

That Insdorf and Marian Keane provoke such strong negative reactions in this forum makes me wonder if there isn't a shade of sexism informing those opinions. Anyone wanna take a shot at Laura Mulvey?
I think the set is wonderful (especially Kanal) and listed it on my personal best of 2005 list. I haven't listened to the Ashes and Diamonds commentary yet so I can't comment on that.

User avatar
tryavna
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:38 pm
Location: North Carolina

#53 Post by tryavna » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:49 pm

FilmFanSea wrote:Anyone wanna take a shot at Laura Mulvey?
Don't know if this is sexist or not, but I've always found Mulvey's accent charming. She has that wonderfully English habit of swallowing whole syllables and placing random "r"s after certain vowel sounds.

User avatar
Andre Jurieu
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: Back in Milan (Ind.)

#54 Post by Andre Jurieu » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:08 pm

FilmFanSea wrote: Anyone wanna take a shot at Laura Mulvey?
Hell NO! IMO, her commentary on Peeping Tom is among the best in the collection and I used to regularly request for her participation in Criterion projects in the past.

portnoy
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:03 am

#55 Post by portnoy » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:59 am

Saw a not-so-great 35 of Ashes and Diamonds last night... fine grain, beautiful contrasts, but choppy at places and with a few aggressively persistent verticals.

Reel 5 was the only reel that really had a significant trouble, though: it appeared as though someone had taken white-out to the audio track, muffling the audio through the entire reel. That said, seeing that stunning final reel with dampened audio gave me a new appreciation for how overwhelmingly visual Wajda's storytelling is. Every cut and visual cue seemed magnified and grand, and it occured to me how much the film can work as silent cinema - at times, even the meager subtitles on the print seem unnecessary. Really a remarkable, moving experience. The cut from Maciek tumbling against the brick wall to the extreme close-up of Krystyna at the final dance is overwhelming.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

#56 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:57 pm

I hope MichaelB won't object to my putting a link to his blog post on A Generation here!

User avatar
ando
Bringing Out El Duende
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:53 pm
Location: New York City

Re: 369-373 Paul Robeson: Portraits of an Artistic

#57 Post by ando » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:42 am

colinr0380 wrote:I was amazed by the opening long takes of Kanal and A Generation - the pan of A Generation and the tracking of Kanal. I was so impressed by Kanal's opening shot in particular that I had to rewind and watch it again a couple of times! I think what makes the shot particularly special is the way the large group uses the whole frame, coming from background to foreground, moving past the camera the coming back into frame as the camera in turn passes them - this lets the audience think of the world outside the screen, but also through the calm camera moves suggests the dispassionate observation of the characters and their fates.

I think black and white perfectly suits the films, but especially Kanal. A colour film would seem to be too shocking, not just looking at the sewage but also in the aftermath of the grenade scene - I think colour might have made that scene unbearable!
Ditto. Also colour might have made all the proceedings look unreal. To this day I don't think most filmmakers have got the colour thing down in war films. Vietnam flicks are often the exception. It seems we'll suspend our disbelief in a Vietnam flicker quicker than, say, a Gulf War flick. Also, there's a kind of romance in a black & white war film that, perhaps, post-Korean war films lack. Perhaps it's the looking back that necessitates the romance. War heroism, in general, is a kind of romance which creates a distance between an audience and the narrative - and distance (as you point out) is key. Also, the romance may be a buffer between the reality of men murdering each other and the audience's capacity to stomach it.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#58 Post by MichaelB » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:04 am

A double bill of Agnieszka Holland's In Darkness and Jan Komasa's Warsaw '44 might give some idea of what a colour Kanal might have looked like. Interestingly, Komasa's film very much focuses on the huge chasm between romantic idealism and gut-wrenching reality.

User avatar
ando
Bringing Out El Duende
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:53 pm
Location: New York City

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#59 Post by ando » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:05 pm

Thanks for the Warsaw '44 rec. Interesting special feature conversations on Kanal. Not that this isn't obvious to anyone who's studied WWII but I hadn't realized how pivotal the prolonged conflict at Warsaw was in saving Berlin from complete destruction and allowing the subsequent East/West split, which might not have otherwise happened. A bit of revisionist history but the reasoning from one of the participants in the Warsaw Uprising seems sound.

And, man, from the beginning to the end that war was rife with misread intentions of principle actors on the Allied and Axis high command. Not just bluffing and subterfuge but outright delusion! In that regard times sure haven't changed.

User avatar
movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#60 Post by movielocke » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:25 pm

Finally watching the first two films in this set via FilmStruck, but I just had to note that the cover art for a generation and kanal is mind numbingly good, some of the best work in the collection period.

I loved both films and hopefully this weekend I can find time to post more thoughts on them.

User avatar
Mr Sausage
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Canada

Kanal (Andrzej Wajda, 1957)

#61 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:48 pm

DISCUSSION ENDS MONDAY, September 3rd.

Members have a two week period in which to discuss the film before it's moved to its dedicated thread in The Criterion Collection subforum. Please read the Rules and Procedures.

This thread is not spoiler free. This is a discussion thread; you should expect plot points of the individual films under discussion to be discussed openly. See: spoiler rules.

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

I encourage members to submit questions, either those designed to elicit discussion and point out interesting things to keep an eye on, or just something you want answered. This will be extremely helpful in getting discussion started. Starting is always the hardest part, all the more so if it's unguided. Questions can be submitted to me via PM.

User avatar
Slaphappy
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:08 am

Re: Kanal (Andrzej Wajda, 1957)

#62 Post by Slaphappy » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:49 pm

I saw Kanal on big screen few years ago. It was a gorgeous 35mm print. Cinematography was supreme, but soundwork was so bad, that towards the end I was totally alienated from the mood of the film. The scenes that took place at the sewers did it. No subterrenean soundscape, just plain voices of people dubbing the dialogue if I remember correctly. What a turn-off. Has this bothered anyone else or was there something wrong with the soundtrack of that print? I have the same problem with some Eastern European movies, but this is the worst example I can remember, because the contrast between immersive cinematrography and alienating soundscape was to enormous.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#63 Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:41 am

My apologies - I didn't even know that there was a separate Kanal discussion going on. What a shame that that was the only contribution.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#64 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:21 am

I was not sure about contributing as I'd already written up most of my thoughts about the film earlier in the thread, though I certainly think Kanal is a great film. Perhaps not as overtly complex and politically scathing as A Generation or Ashes and Diamonds, but amazingly tense and works extremely well even if just seen as a stripped down and claustrophobic, incredibly bleak thriller.
SpoilerShow
Though I suppose everyone being betrayed and dying in the sewers is the ultimate form of politically scathing commentary!

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#65 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:21 pm

Going through the Wajda set for the 50s project my feelings are very similar to the first run through years ago. A Generation is inconsistently engaging but impressively conceived, Wajda exhibiting his strong comprehension of space and issuing a few inspired setpieces. The characters are allotted agency and the film becomes most interesting when giving room from a fatalist perspective to the idea that the choices all lead to this dangerous stratosphere, despite the la-di-da ending.

Kanal is just incredible, right from the opening where we follow a few looong tracking shots and are introduced to our protagonists by their names and a quick icebreaker characteristic, as if the narrator himself can’t keep up with their forward movement into hell. We then watch in silence as they move through space, for long enough that Wajda elicits the feeling of movement through time too. The juxtaposition yields a residual feeling that, for the frantic inability to attach verbal signifiers, the camera’s ability to capture visual ones carries a power that reduces the intellectualization unimportant and elevates the emotional experience to be the most tangible measure of interest. The hasty attempts at summarizing these men in that opening narration can only be done in that long, silent death march, or the many other long takes we get of these men struggling to survive against the grain of their unpredictable spaces, together yet always alone (Daisy can’t even disclose her feelings and initiate an intimate connection until hope is even more lost than has already been established throughout the narrative!) The reliance on visual character development means each actor must carry an authenticity in body language and mannerisms as much as in dialogue. Wajda’s wildly intrusive and retracting camera zips into and out of rooms and corridors, abrasively smothering actors and retreating like a scurried animal, using indoor and outdoor space like claustrophobic traps or facades of freedom, yet doing so even in retreat with a delicacy that doesn’t take away from the power of the scene with stylistic interference. As a war film it hardly gets more bleak or compassionate than this (unless you want to peer into minds and issue transcendental experience like The Thin Red Line), an affirming combination of attitudes that proves how they aren’t mutually exclusive.

Ashes and Diamonds earns its reputation in formal mastery and strong characterization against a perceived fatalist milieu. I think the agency here is more fleshed out and existentially pleasing than the first film of the trilogy, as we watch a man grapple with his conscience, desires, duty, usefulness, expectations, and position, and wondering what is authentic, escapable, or destined. Again this is expressed so much in body language and a lot of the film’s successful moments must give shared credit to Zbigniew Cybulski, whose honest identity is always cracking just a bit through the facade he presents with; and a genuine yearning to access his ‘self’ permeates his attempts at reflection without coming off as obvious or exaggerated. This might be the most digestible and engaging film of the three, though on par with Kanal for exceeding perfectly at their respective aims.

User avatar
bottled spider
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#66 Post by bottled spider » Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:27 pm

RE: Ashes and Diamonds. It's remarkable how that handsome face of Zbigniew Cybulski transforms from cynical and sleazy to innocent and vulnerable when he removes his dark glasses. I liked Insdorf's observation that his clothing is patently anachronistic -- something I didn't consciously register even though it's obvious and intentional.

There are camera angles, framing, lighting, editing, and camera movements that are perceived as natural, normal, styleless. Then at the opposite extreme there's Wajda, whose every shot is in some way mannered ("mannered" not meant pejoratively). Always arresting and sometimes beautiful, but for my taste, he overdoes his aesthetic -- the ever arresting ceases to be arresting. It's exhausting. I would have preferred a plainer, meat-and-potatoes mise-en-scene as a foil for the moments of high poetry.

This would have been eligible for the 24-hours or less mini-list and for Films of Youth, but as far as I can tell wasn't mentioned in either thread.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#67 Post by swo17 » Mon May 17, 2021 1:47 pm

Ashes and Diamonds Blu-ray upgrade Aug 24, featuring a new video essay

User avatar
Pavel
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:41 pm

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#68 Post by Pavel » Mon May 17, 2021 1:50 pm

Was hoping they'd upgrade the whole trilogy (esp in such a light month), but I guess that wasn't possible. In any case Ashes and Diamonds is the most bankable one

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#69 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon May 17, 2021 1:55 pm

True, hopefully they follow through on the others. Would be a shame to exclude Kanal, which may just be the best of the lot.

Calvin
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#70 Post by Calvin » Mon May 17, 2021 2:05 pm

I'm glad to see a new 4K restoration for this one, as there's certainly room for improvement over the old Arrow Academy release.

As has been said, it's a shame that they're only upgrading the one film - I have Kanal imported from Poland, but there's as yet no sign of A Generation on Blu-Ray.

There's a whole load of Wajda films that have been released on Blu-Ray in his native country - 1080i and with lossy audio, but they're surprisingly good given those drawbacks and I'd recommend them whilst there isn't a better option.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#71 Post by domino harvey » Mon May 17, 2021 2:08 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:55 pm
True, hopefully they follow through on the others. Would be a shame to exclude Kanal, which may just be the best of the lot.
Kanal is the only reason I still have this DVD box set. What a bummer of an upgrade

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#72 Post by MichaelB » Mon May 17, 2021 2:19 pm

Pavel wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 1:50 pm
Was hoping they'd upgrade the whole trilogy (esp in such a light month), but I guess that wasn't possible.
It would be interesting to know why, since there are no issues with materials - there are definitely HD restorations of the two later films (Kanal is out on Blu-ray in Poland) and there should notionally be HD masters of all three. I'm not sure why A Generation isn't, but the DVD in the big Wajda box is clearly of much more recent vintage than the master that fuelled the old Criterion disc, so it's safe to assume that there's an HD master of that as well.

A major headache with regard to releasing Polish films is that licensing costs have shot up in recent years, so of course that might be a factor. Put it like this: there's a reason why Second Run's Blu-ray catalogue contains no fewer than twenty films from Czechoslovakia (counting CzechMate) but none from Poland, and it's absolutely not through choice on their part.

Bressonaire
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#73 Post by Bressonaire » Mon May 17, 2021 3:36 pm

I suspect that the why goes back to the New York Times interview last summer. Given that Becker promised rather on the spur of the moment in the Times to do a better job of bringing in titles by Black directors, he's clearly making a serious effort, but that effort was inevitably going to affect the budget for other releases. The box set of Marlon Riggs and titles like Pariah and Deep Cover, with rumors of various Mario van Peebles works in the pipeline, diverted funds from something like the upgrade of a full Wajda box. I really wonder if any of those would have been prioritized if not for the fallout from that interview. In any case, like therewillbeblus, I worry that the shift means fewer classic Hollywood films saved that are, like Dance, Girl, Dance, actually rotting in their cans.

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#74 Post by tenia » Mon May 17, 2021 4:26 pm

I of course might be wrong but I doubt this has anything to do with Criterion's budgets being diverted towards releasing movies by black directors. These titles might take slots in Criterion release calendars that would have otherwise gone to other movies, sure enough, but considering how Criterion are built and sized and their overall fire-power, it's extremely unlikely releasing Pariah is eating up their budget to the point they can only upgrade ONE Wajda movie.

Also, Criterion are late for plenty of upgrades for titles which have been recently restored, so it's not like it's an isolated case. And one can add on top of that stuff they own, were supposed to release at some point, but still haven't (eg the Harold Lloyds). They just have the rights for way more stuff than their current release pace allows for.
Last edited by tenia on Mon May 17, 2021 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: 282-285 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films

#75 Post by movielocke » Mon May 17, 2021 4:51 pm

Several box sets have had titles broken out, Malle, Teshigahara, the first WCP, new Hollywood. They do this from time to time. it happens and it happening certainly isn't racially motivated.

Post Reply