443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de...

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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tenia
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#451 Post by tenia » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:28 pm

To make it simple: it should have much more details than what the new BD has. And that's because the restoration people have used to many filters, which has "softened" and smoothed the picture to the point details have disappeared.

I understood that it's bad to the point where upscaling Criterion's DVD gives better results.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#452 Post by cdnchris » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:51 pm

tenia wrote: I understood that it's bad to the point where upscaling Criterion's DVD gives better results.
It does as you can make out that veil a bit better than you can on the Blu-ray.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#453 Post by tenia » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:33 pm

But you would still improve upon the DVD compression, though ?

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#454 Post by cdnchris » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:51 pm

That's about one of the only advantages of the Blu-ray: the fact that the DVDs compression is absent. The new transfer has also removed a lot of the print damage visible in the DVD, though how much of that is related to the filtering directly I can't say. Still, the DVD does deliver better textures and details in a lot of cases.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#455 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:51 pm

Latest from Gaumont. En bref, they're starting again and the new model will hit the streets 1st QTR 2014.
Shame Pathe don't have the same balls.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#456 Post by shaky » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:12 pm

Glorious news

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#457 Post by vsski » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:18 pm

I think a big thank you is due to Chris and David Hare from this site here, as well as Dr. Svet and whoever was the person on DVD Classik - sometimes a few people can make a difference :D .
And if the result will be indeed as good as we hope, it may put some pressure on CC to at least make a comment, if not jump into action (not that I'm holding my breath).

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#458 Post by rwaits » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:45 pm

I really didn't expect to see this happen. Absolutely amazing news!

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#459 Post by jsteffe » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:17 pm

Thank you, Gaumont!

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#460 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:23 pm

Yes, though how often do Gaumont's releases have English subs? Either way, I hope Criterion considers redoing their release.

EDIT: I say "either way" because regardless of whether a superior alternative becomes available, the CC will presumably still be the way that a lot of people end up seeing this.
Last edited by swo17 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#461 Post by david hare » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:31 pm

Given the deafening silence from Crit I would rather lay bets on MoC doing it.

I suspect the new Gaumont will carry subs in any case.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#462 Post by zedz » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:34 pm

It's like they were playing 'pass the parcel' with a lump of dogshit and two seconds after the music stopped Criterion was the only person left in the room. Still, they had the opportunity of turning down the transfer.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#463 Post by tenia » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:28 am

zedz wrote:Still, they had the opportunity of turning down the transfer.
Actually, it's still something I don't understand. Worse even : they could have not only turned down the transfer, but alarm Gaumont that something was wrong with the restoration, and all this disaster would have been detected 4 months ago.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#464 Post by david hare » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:09 pm

Why has Rupert Pupkin's long and crucial post disappeared? Did he request its erasure personally? Were the mods ordered to remove it for legal reasons? I am very much troubled by this as one of his points was to nail the common denominator through this whole web of botched transfers over the last couple of years to one particular source. In the absence of his post I will reiterate that Lab Éclair is the common denominator behind all of these fuckups - Samourai, Les Enfants, the 4k to BD of Plein Soleil and Madame de. I am personally aware of the treatment they dished out to a friend in Paris whom I had briefed with questions, which they dismissed unequivocally as misinformed.. the point is you don't dare fight this sort of capital investment and cultural totalitarianism with reality checks or even mere challenges to their fucking authority.

For the record I finally questioned the conclusions of Gary's Beaver review on their listserve page. With deft swiftness I was -as expected- delivered a fatal blow as a fantasist. This concerns me not one bit but it is totally clear to me Gary no longer actually watches the discs he's supposed to be reviewing. And that's to say nothing about his capture methods and the persistent filtering problems.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#465 Post by domino harvey » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:11 pm

david hare wrote:This concerns me not one bit but it is totally clear to me Gary no longer actually watches the discs he's supposed to be reviewing.
For what it's worth, I've suspected this for years. The fact that his captures all appear at or near chapter stops now doesn't make the argument any harder either! I think the reason there's so little nudity in the screencaps any more is that Gary's stopped watching the film long enough to know where they're at!

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#466 Post by Matt » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:37 pm

david hare wrote:Why has Rupert Pupkin's long and crucial post disappeared? Did he request its erasure personally? Were the mods ordered to remove it for legal reasons?
As far as I can tell, he edited it himself. I deleted a recent post of his in this thread yesterday morning that just said ".../..." just like another post of his on the previous page.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#467 Post by david hare » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:43 pm

I'm not even sure he does that! IF you want to do very specific screens to demonstrate the differences in level of detail you need do no more than go to chapter stops on both the Crit SD and BD of Madame de to find perfect examples. Starting with chapter 3 -the rear shot of Madame in the opera box when she "discovers" the earrings are missing and Boyer goes out to the vestibule; Chapter 4 which opens on the jeweller's son's hands closing the box; Chapter 5 and Boyer seeing off his mistress at the station, etc. In every case Crit has imposed the chapter stop on a fresh shot after a dissolve or fade to black and in every case Ophuls' camera start on a close detail and then travels to a wider view. This gives a perfect opportunity to see how much the detail has been erased from the HD encode in flesh, faces, curtains, clothes and fabric and those amazing newly mosaiced tree trunks.

EDIT: Thanks Matt - I suspected as much. I am happy to carry any can for him if it's simply down to cultural diplomacy. The French can be bigger bastards than anyone I know (excluding Rupert and my other nameless friend of course.)

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#468 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:03 am

yes I did edit my post with ".../..." since the delete button is not available in this forum.
I did regret to have post on dvdclassik the comparison between the iTunes (and i'm sorry I should have credited david hare from criterionforum for the iTunes caps :oops: but at that time I didn't want to make a direct connection with a US forum) which have upscaled with AKVIS on my Mac (using a bit of grain and everything) at 1920x1080 blu-ray resolution in order to show to Mister Gaumont that even with a 720p source upscaled there was more details than on their new Gaumont restauration by Studio Eclair (we can still see some foliage in the background, Danielle Darrieux's face and clothing texture are still there, and the horse has still an eye which doesn't look like the shark in Jaws)

for the rest of my post, let's say that I prefer to stay "quiet"... All I can say is that I'm very sad and bitter.
I think david hare read my original post and points about Studio Eclair and my concern goes for the next outputs of Criterion...

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#469 Post by tenia » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:26 am

domino harvey wrote:
david hare wrote:This concerns me not one bit but it is totally clear to me Gary no longer actually watches the discs he's supposed to be reviewing.
For what it's worth, I've suspected this for years. The fact that his captures all appear at or near chapter stops now doesn't make the argument any harder either!
Which is pretty lazy, because since you need to be on a computer to do the caps, you can very well just use the time bar, and screen the whole movie without needing to hit once the "next chapter" button. I usually watch the movie once normally on my HT, and then hit the computer for a disc scan, so I already know about when they are nice scenes for captures. I still takes me less than 10 minutes to do captures over the whole movie and upload the caps.

Anyway.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#470 Post by Finch » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:24 pm

Gaumont have produced some great discs before so hopefully the redone Madame de release will be among them. I have learned my lesson though and will hold on to the Criterion DVD for the booklet and the extras. Crit's total silence regarding their BD just makes that decision to put it out all the more infuriating. If it hadn't been for that disc, I would have said they had a great 2013. Question is: will they dare to reissue Madame de as it's meant to be in 2014? Don't think they'll have the balls to do it.

PS.: If you know the films he's reviewing, I always thought it totally obvious that Tooze mostly takes screencaps from the beginning or end of the corresponding chapter. Add to that the cut and paste jobs from previous reviews (to be fair, Svet does it with certain phrases in his reviews as well) and it's clear to me, he doesn't spend as much time with the disc as other reviewers do. Not to mention his questionable method of obtaining the screen grabs.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#471 Post by jindianajonz » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:50 pm

How did Criterion handle the switch from a non-anamorphic version of the Brazil 3 discer to the anamorphic version? Was it something they announced, or did they just quietly start selling the newer version in place of the old? If it's the latter, I wouldn't be surprised if they took the same approach with Madame de....

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#472 Post by swo17 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:52 pm

jindianajonz wrote:How did Criterion handle the switch from a non-anamorphic version of the Brazil 3 discer to the anamorphic version? Was it something they announced, or did they just quietly start selling the newer version in place of the old?
Officially announced seven years later

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#473 Post by lefeufollet » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:56 pm

jindianajonz wrote:How did Criterion handle the switch from a non-anamorphic version of the Brazil 3 discer to the anamorphic version? Was it something they announced, or did they just quietly start selling the newer version in place of the old? If it's the latter, I wouldn't be surprised if they took the same approach with Madame de....
The Brazil reissue was announced in their newsletter:
We’re happy to rerelease one of our all-time most popular titles in a gorgeous new transfer, supervised and wholeheartedly approved by Terry Gilliam—the only existing masters of the dystopian epic Brazil made with his participation. The new high-definition transfer was struck from a brand-new 35mm preservation interpositive of the original European version of the film; the quality of this disc, now in anamorphic, surpasses our old transfer. Significant digital cleanup not possible last time around has now been done, as well as extra work on some of the optical effects. Also, for the first time, Brazil will be available as a single-disc release. However, our ultimate, three-disc special edition box set (which now features the new transfer as the main feature) is still available.
Given the circumstances of the Madame debacle, I would expect any potential reissue to be handled in a different manner.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#474 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:00 pm

as I mentioned a couple of times elsewhere Pathe have allegedly amended Le Samourai and done just that..slipped it out under cover of darkness. I haven't tracked down a reappraisal however. Perhaps tenia , if he's listening, knows of one?

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#475 Post by andyli » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:32 pm

This one I found a few days ago:
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleic ... 78#auswahl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The new version is not without problems to be honest.

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