443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de...

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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vsski
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#426 Post by vsski » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:00 am

Actually the DVDTalk review states that the screen shots are from the DVD version not the reviewed Blu Ray, no wonder they look decent.
What really makes me sad is that DVDTalk, Beaver, HFT and RAH have all given the disc stellar reviews, even though they all should know better, but either don't care or didn't bother to look properly. So what is the incentive for CC or anyone else to ever redo this and how much will the few folks on this forum who refuse to buy this travesty really impact sales? :cry:

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david hare
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#427 Post by david hare » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:35 pm

Not one fucking iota.

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tenia
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#428 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:46 am

This year's Gaumont release of Madame de... just got cancelled.

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#429 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:44 am

tenia wrote:This year's Gaumont release of Madame de... just got cancelled.
Is that official Is there a link to an announcement?
Wonder how Criterion feel about being palmed off with it?

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#430 Post by lefeufollet » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:51 am


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swo17
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#431 Post by swo17 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:53 am

Doesn't that post say the release has merely been postponed?

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#432 Post by lefeufollet » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am

That's how I read it as well.

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Matt
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#433 Post by Matt » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:06 pm

It says the scheduled release has been canceled and postponed to a date to be determined. Everybody's right!

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tenia
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#434 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:06 pm

Matt wrote:It says the scheduled release has been canceled and postponed to a date to be determined. Everybody's right!
I should have been more precised, but yes, it has been postponed without any new date.

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rspaight
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#435 Post by rspaight » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:55 pm

This could get very interesting if Gaumont actually goes back and fixes it. (If that's even possible/practical.)

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Matt
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#436 Post by Matt » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:59 pm

It's certainly possible. There would have to be an untouched digital scan of the film on which they can redo all of the digital restoration (more carefully and lightly this time around). And if they are unsatisfied with the restoration work that was originally performed (and they certainly ought to be), Gaumont should expect the work to be redone at minimal or no additional cost.

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peerpee
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#437 Post by peerpee » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:53 pm

Matt wrote:It's certainly possible. There would have to be an untouched digital scan of the film on which they can redo all of the digital restoration (more carefully and lightly this time around). And if they are unsatisfied with the restoration work that was originally performed (and they certainly ought to be), Gaumont should expect the work to be redone at minimal or no additional cost.
Someone at Gaumont must have signed off on the digital restoration work. I expect they'll have to pay in full to redo it properly because of that.

After the CHILDREN IN PARADISE letdown, it's unfortunate that Criterion didn't bump the MADAME DE master back to Gaumont instead of upgrading it to Blu (particularly when pristine HD masters have been available for years for other upgrades (RIFIFI, FRENCH CANCAN, BOUDU, etc). They've dodged a number of bullets in the last year (PURPLE NOON and BAND OF OUTSIDERS) and ended up with superb results there, which makes these two slip-ups all the more noticeable and alarming.

It's almost certainly the forensic online post-mortem of the Criterion MADAME DE Blu-ray that has made Gaumont realise it was a digital dog's dinner.

EDIT: Deleted one accidentally repeated word.
Last edited by peerpee on Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zot!
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#438 Post by Zot! » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:57 pm

it's a little concerning that reviews were not particularly damning. The screen caps on a small screen alone look pretty terrible, but how could you overlook it on a projector or larger screen?

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tenia
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#439 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:39 pm

peerpee wrote:It's almost certainly the forensic online post-mortem of the Criterion MADAME DE Blu-ray online that has made Gaumont realise it was a digital dog's dinner.
Not only, actually. The fact is that they allowed one DVD Classik forumer to see the BD-R / BD-T at Gaumont, and then to take it back home, do screencaps and post a sum-up of all this online. Reaction there has been overwhelmingly negative, so it's likely that this, on top of the awful grades the Criterion got in the English online test websites, made them change their minds about the release, with which they were quite confident at the beginning.

This confidence is, actually, what bothers me the most, because either Gaumont was happy with this awful result and thought everybody would be, or they never saw the finished result before the Criterion backlash. In both cases, it seems as major letdown from a process point of view.

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david hare
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#440 Post by david hare » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:48 pm

I cannot say how pleased I am about this.
A number of people here, especially Chris, Dr Svet, myself and the gentleman who did the massive screen cap post mortem at classik all deserve credit for getting this withdrawn. But I offer my personal thanks to Jerome for having the guts to acknowledge the mistake and take cntrol of it.

So 10 out of 10 to Jerome.

Andd Zero out of ten to Criterion.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#441 Post by jindianajonz » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:56 pm

Has Criterion ever done a recall/replacement for something like this? All the replacements I'm aware of were due to bugs in producing the disc, not because they accepted inferior elements.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#442 Post by Saturnome » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:44 pm

Great news, I'm kind of amazed they did this (how often this happen exactly!?) and that we can hope for a better release at some point. While I prefer every other Ophuls I've seen over Madame de... I might purchase the future release simply because of this and give the film another chance. I hope it's a permanent step in the right direction. I've grown kind of fearful of french films on blu-ray, I waited a long time for definitive positive reviews on the Pialat films before getting them, and I guess the habit won't go away for a while.

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manicsounds
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#443 Post by manicsounds » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:53 pm

Possible "Gladiator" Blu-ray replacement in the future would be nice.

edit: Pardon me, I should've said "Gladiator"-type Blu-ray replacement, with Universal and Paramount replacing the badly mastered old discs for customers.
Last edited by manicsounds on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rupert Pupkin
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#444 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:18 am

..../...

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jindianajonz
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#445 Post by jindianajonz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:20 am

manicsounds wrote:Possible "Gladiator" Blu-ray replacement in the future would be nice.
I can only assume this means you wish Criterion would replace every copy of Madame De... with a copy of Gladiator.

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Feego
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#446 Post by Feego » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:41 pm

I'm pretty sure he means he hopes Criterion follows Paramount's lead in releasing an improved edition of Madame de... and offering an exchange program for those who already bought it, just as Paramount did for their originally blundered Gladiator release.

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zedz
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#447 Post by zedz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:09 pm

If Gaumont do release a superior transfer (and how couldn't they?), all those fawning reviewers who praised the Criterion fiasco will have egg on their faces - which is as it should be.

casac
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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#448 Post by casac » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:23 pm

Hello all. I am new here and just recently watched my blu-ray of Madame De... and am wondering if the issue is not with the transfer itself, but with poor television settings? Having never seen this film before I have no other transfer to compare it to, so if I am off here, please let me know. But while watching it I changed my television settings from the cinema setting to the standard setting, and the quality of picture changed drastically. On the standard setting, which is what I use to watch television, the picture was horrible. Switching my TV back to the cinema setting was an instant improvement. This also happens with the Criterion blu-ray of "Howards End". The first time I had watched "Howards End" was with the Standard setting and I was shocked at how horrible the transfer looked. I almost returned my disc because I thought it was defective. However, I did some research and found that I was not the only one who had this problem with the "Howards End" disc and decided to play around with my television settings. My TV has several settings pre-installed and when I chose the cinema setting "Howards End" looked great. And the same thing is true of "Madame De...", at least on my television.

I have looked at the numerous screen captures and I have to say that I don't really see what all the fuss is about. I would be most appreciative if someone could please break down how the blu-ray transfer is a let down, and also if changing your television settings helps to improve the picture quality or not. Thank you for your time.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#449 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:28 am

casac wrote:Hello all. I am new here and just recently watched my blu-ray of Madame De... and am wondering if the issue is not with the transfer itself, but with poor television settings?
Some of the people complaining about it have properly calibrated systems, so that's wildly unlikely to be the issue.

And if it was as simple as that, then why has Gaumont withdrawn their planned release indefinitely?

Granted, I haven't seen the transfer myself yet, but it's obvious just from the framegrabs (which have nothing to do with "poor television settings") that it's a disaster - there's none of the detail that you'd expect from a 35mm-sourced Blu-ray transfer.

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Re: 443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de.

#450 Post by jindianajonz » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:08 am

casac wrote:I would be most appreciative if someone could please break down how the blu-ray transfer is a let down
I don't have a very experienced eye for some of these things, but there was some stuff that definitely stood out for me:
(I'm gonna be posting links to Blu-ray caps from DVDBeaver, you'll have to go to their site to see the DVD comparisons.)
1) In this shot notice how smooth her face looks, especially when you flip back and forth between the DVD and Blu. Also notice that the net over her face almost seems to be fading away...

2) ...until you get to this shot, where the net is almost gone. Granted, the net is very tough to see in the DVD, but there is no reason for a "restored" blu to have less clarity on this than the old DVD. Also look at the books and wall on the far left side of the screen- I don't know how to explain it, but they almost look like a painting to me (i've seen the phrase "paint by numbers" bandied about). In the DVD the books look soft, but these almost look... smeared? I'm not quite sure what word to use.

3) One thing that threw me off when trying to compare versions is shots like this, which obviously look like crap, but the DVD equivalents don't look much better. But they don't look much worse either, in which case, what was the point of this grand restoration? And I do think the railing on the wallpaper in the background does look a little bit flatter and more "painted" than the DVD version did.

4) Alright, now for some of the more obvious ones: If you thought the live action looked like a painting, wait until you see what an actual painting looks like! You can hardly tell what the painting is supposed to be of, whereas in the DVD version you get a very good sense that it is a bunch of men on horses.

5)And finally, check out the trees here- the leaves here and in other outdoor scenes were the places where i was first able to notice the problems with this transfer- they really do look like a painting.

6)Also, it takes a while to load, butthis shot from caps-a-holic was enlightening. Notice the detail on the wooden railings on the second floor, and how it quite literally disappears on the blu-ray version, as well as detail on the chandelier and the statue on the banister at the bottom of the stairs.

That's what I saw, but I'm sure others with better eyes for this than me will have more to add.

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