306 Le samouraï

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Minkin
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: 306 Le samouraï

#151 Post by Minkin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:42 pm

davidhuxley wrote:Is anyone aware of a second DVD printing of this title? Copies have surfaced that have the same catalog number and ISBN as the 2005 edition (SAM150 / 0-78003-018-4), but has the statement "Second printing 2014". Although it was issued in a pre-2006 black keep case, it has the post-2006 logo, and a redesigned back cover with a back of the cover photograph which isn't visible unless removed from the case. (This feature is usually used only on a transparent case so that the image is visible when the case is opened.) The opening menu is identical to the one used in the 2005 edition, retaining the old straight line logo. I don't know of any other title which has been given a second printing" without it being reissued for some apparent reason, either a new transfer, or an error in the first printing, nor any pre-2006 title being reprinted with the current logo but issued in an old case. Perhaps this was a manufacturing error and should have been in a transparent case? (Otherwise why print an image that can't even be seen!) Any help would be appreciated.
It was reprinted and they used the black case? That would make it the first black case since the new logo era (2006). Weird. Perhaps they had some spare cases about the factory? Other than Schizopolis - I can't see any reason for Criterion to use a solid color plastic case that blocks off the interior artwork. Criterion's website has it listed as one of those "Buy at Amazon" - which indicates a new printing.

Do the Right Thing was also recently reprinted - but it kept the old cover/everything - but now has the wacky C. Now that I'm pressed - I have no idea whether it was a black or transparent case. I'm surprised they bothered as both of these have been long overdo for a new edition. But perhaps these will only receive Blu upgrades, thus they're just updating with the new logo or copyright info / new pressing - but keeping everything else the same. Still can't explain the black case though!

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TwoTecs
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#152 Post by TwoTecs » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:12 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/criterion/comm ... ray_is_on/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An r/Criterion user got this answer from Jon Mulvaney regarding the new branding on the disc:
I don't think your copy is a bootleg. It's true, we updated the DVD edition with the new branding and the booklet turned into an insert. The Cat/ISBN numbers all stayed the same. This version was only out for a bit and has now gone out of print temporarily while we prepare for a newer edition.
The disc is indeed not on sale on the Criterion website right now but available from other sellers. An upgrade seems in the works.

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Minkin
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#153 Post by Minkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:43 am

TwoTecs wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/criterion/comm ... ray_is_on/

An r/Criterion user got this answer from Jon Mulvaney regarding the new branding on the disc:
I don't think your copy is a bootleg. It's true, we updated the DVD edition with the new branding and the booklet turned into an insert. The Cat/ISBN numbers all stayed the same. This version was only out for a bit and has now gone out of print temporarily while we prepare for a newer edition.
That's the first official comment on what we've been speculating for years now - that the various "out of stock" editions or "temporarily OOP" means they are in between print runs and/or are putting forth a new edition. Everyone else who's tried to ask about these gets the default message "while we try and maintain our library some editions go OOP... and there's no plans at this time." - Whenever someone gets that message, I think their automated software just immediately responds with that - otherwise they're giving away their release schedule.

This should be reassuring to those wanting Pandora's Box / BRD Trilogy / Sternberg /etc (see the Criterion OOP thread for more).

So this black case edition has already come and gone? I know Le Samourai is popular, but sheesh. I guess its probably one of the most requested blu upgrades (alongside Andrei Rublev)

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#154 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:11 am

On the Gaumont/Pathé blu edition of Tavernier's 'Journey through french cinema' the clips from Samourai look eminently better than my Pathé blu. I don't pretend to know what that implies but there you are. This goes also for some other Gaumont /Pathé /Studio Canal overscrubs - principally Becker's titles.

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Ribs
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#155 Post by Ribs » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:23 pm

Upgrade in November!!!

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domino harvey
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#156 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:41 pm

Strangely, it sounds like Criterion is downsizing the DVD booklet only for this reissue
PLUS: An essay by film scholar David Thomson. The Blu-ray also features an appreciation by filmmaker John Woo and excerpts from Melville on Melville.
Those all intitally appeared in the DVD booklet...

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Never Cursed
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#157 Post by Never Cursed » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:49 pm

Like with Amarcord and Kagemusha?

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domino harvey
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#158 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:50 pm

Did those still keep the material for the Blu-ray?

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bdsweeney
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306 Le samouraï

#159 Post by bdsweeney » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:50 pm

I'm aware that some of the HD transfers of this have been very poor. While the copy states this is a new high-def transfer, have any of the existing HD transfers been up to snuff yet?

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tenia
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#160 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

I believe there only is 1 HD restoration, which is subpar indeed, but the first French pressing managed on top of that to filter it furthermore. The 2nd pressing didnt, but the basics are still lacking.

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domino harvey
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#161 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:58 pm

I'm definitely holding onto my DVD til I see proof :whitneyhoustonreceiptsgif:

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Never Cursed
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#162 Post by Never Cursed » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:09 pm

domino harvey wrote:Did those still keep the material for the Blu-ray?
At least according to the website, yes, as the extra material post-reissue was labelled (Blu-ray only.)

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Drucker
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#163 Post by Drucker » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:47 pm

The original DVD also lists "restored, high-definition digital transfer." Isn't it conceivable they've just upgraded the original master? Maybe with some internal color-correction?

Also, I think the trailer on the Criterion site is pretty damn close to the color I saw the other month in 35mm.

Rupert Pupkin
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#164 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:17 pm

[-o< it's difficult to interpret "New high-definition digital restoration, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray"
I mean "new" - The Pathé was one of the absolute nadir - the worst restoration I've ever seen. With some painting a-la Paint (old color Mac software from the 90's...). I know that Alain Deloin is crying in his car while it's raining, but it's crying and raining painting everywhere.
I still watch and keep the DVD Criterion which looks quite good on a not so-big HD Sony TV screen.
They (Pathé) slightly de-worsed their transfer without any advert or sign on the packaging to notice which one was the "less-worse".
I think that a less DNR-ized transfer (but from the same restoration) came out in another country (Tenia you probably know which Blu-Ray it is). Japan perhaps, I've take a look at caps-al-holic the Japanese looks just like the same than the Pathé v2.

But it was some time ago... several years ago that the Pathé has been released - something like 5 years ago- how can we interpret the word "new" in Criterion announcement ?
new vs the DVD Criterion. Or new new...? #-o

I have the feeling that for Le Samouraï Pathé fucked up everything during the encoding "digital restoration" (their digital restoration is "tout un programme"). Which means that if Criterion can get a pre-Pathé-ized transfer (like they did for Godard's "Band à Part" - but I have some higher expectations in terms of picture quality although the Godard was quite an emotional rescue and I happy that they got a pre-Gaumont DNR'n'French touch transfer)
I'm a bit afraid with this line "high-definition digital restoration" - as if it implies that there has been no new argentic restoration in the process and that Criterion digitally rework digitally a movie. Has some other Criterion Blu-Ray (which were good in terms of PQ) got that description ?

I've also seen that it will be available via iTunes- will it be available several months before the material DVD/Blu-Ray release ? It's been such a long time that I expected this movie to deserve a good release [-o< By the way, I've never understood what Le Samouraï was plagued in term of restoration. I've never read some stories about some part of the movie would have been damaged and which would explain this painting-raining photoshop treatment. I mean, look how good "Léon Morin" looks on Blu-Ray...

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movielocke
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#165 Post by movielocke » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:57 am

I believe Last Temptation of Christ has similar language "restored high-definition digital transfer" but originated from the same HD tape master/harvest that was used for the original DVD issue.

Rupert Pupkin
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#166 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:43 am

movielocke wrote:I believe Last Temptation of Christ has similar language "restored high-definition digital transfer" but originated from the same HD tape master/harvest that was used for the original DVD issue.
thanks. I'm a bit disoriented by "new" - it's a good news if this they start from scratch and if this has nothing to do with the Pathé Blu-Ray.
Generally I've been pleased with the blu-ray upgrade from their old DVD catalog. "Sweetie" for instance. The DVD upscaled was really nice on my first HD TV Sony (perhaps because they didn't use too much edge enhancement, etc... and even if the DVD resolution can not capture the "grain" texture (or just a kind of "extrapolation") well, you already have a film-like experience with the DVD upscaled. Thus, when the Blu-Ray upgrade came out, I was really pleased with the quality (New, restored digital transfer).
Same comments could go for "Naked".

even if the Samouraï DVD Criterion is old, could it be possible that they had a HD master on their hard-drive (like for the titles "Naked" or "Sweetie", and would work with this material rather than the Pathé restoration ?
This happened with "Plein Soleil" (not prime material, but the Criterion Blu-Ray is very pleasing) - there has been a French restoration, the theatrical re-release was superb (I was there) but the color-grade of the Blu-Ray was somehow disturbing to say the least. StudioCanal claimed that was closed to Henri Decaë's original intention. But if you watch the excellent documentary from "Plein Soleil" you have a lot of indication about colors, etc... the scene with the fish, the buddha statue, the murder scene with the fruits- and the Criterion Blu-Ray seems close to these descriptions...

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#167 Post by Werewolf by Night » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:45 pm

domino harvey wrote:I'm definitely holding onto my DVD til I see proof :whitneyhoustonreceiptsgif:
Ditto. There's no way in hell I'm buying this before I see screen caps from multiple sources.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#168 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:10 pm

Recently announced Vampyr has the same description more or less...

"High-definition digital transfer of the original German-language version of the film from the 1998 restoration"

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dwk
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#169 Post by dwk » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:46 pm

Both Harakiri and The Sword of Doom say "New, restored high-definition digital transfer, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray edition." So this is most likely the DVD master. However, I can't recall them re-releasing a title as a new DVD when the Blu-ray is from the same master as the DVD, even if the Blu has some new special features.

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#170 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:11 pm

I will repeat a note I made on this thread earlier this year -
On the Gaumont/Pathé blu edition of Tavernier's 'Journey through french cinema' the clips from Samourai look eminently better than my Pathé blu.
I don't know the provenance but it does suggest there seems to be a third way that either doesn't involve the Pathé nor Criterion master or might be a different encoding.

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Drucker
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#171 Post by Drucker » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:21 pm

Their versions of Repo Man and Two-Lane Blacktop both looked like pre-DNR versions of the MOC let's not forget.

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dwk
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#172 Post by dwk » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Criterion's Repo Man was from a new master that they created. But, since you mentioned it, Two-Lane Blacktop also says "New, restored high-definition digital transfer, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray edition" and that was the same master as the DVD.

Robespierre
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#173 Post by Robespierre » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:30 am

It seems like a lazy way to release this film if they're going to just reuse a 10+ year old master. I'll hold on to my DVD until I see caps.

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domino harvey
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#174 Post by domino harvey » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:47 am

You don't want the new master

Robespierre
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#175 Post by Robespierre » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:00 am

From all accounts I've heard it's horrid but for a big title like this one I would've expected a new scan, but perhaps the elements aren't available or it's prohibitively expensive. I've gotten somewhat used to being spoiled by 2K and 4K remasters from CC that it's distorts my expectations a bit. As long as it's not DNR'd, filtered or colour boosted it should be ok.

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