291 Heaven Can Wait

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
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skuhn8
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#51 Post by skuhn8 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:26 pm

SncDthMnky wrote:I can't believe I never posted about this film. I blind bought it, and now, if forced to choose my favorite film of all time, this would be it.
We can't believe you didn't either, and shame on you for holding out on us until now! The insight contained in your post will certainly inspire many here to reassess this undervalued gem.

<insert sarcastic emoticon here... :D >

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#52 Post by Cinesimilitude » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:15 pm

Well, I haven't sat and analyzed the film really, I just find it the most watchable of anything I've seen. Don Ameche is incredibly handsome and charming , Tierney is beautiful, and the supporting cast have perfect timing with their dialogue. The story is light and uplifting in dealing with afterlife and very well paced. I have a great fear of death in my youth, And I was raised a christian. As was mentioned in this thread, the idea that a selfish man can still be worthy of heaven is Ideal, as I am not as selfless or moral as I would like to be. Also, I have an incredible lack of confidence with women, and I procrastinate. Henry Van Cleve is on the opposite side of that spectrum and every time I watch the film I am inspired to do something about my life and be a better person, but that only lasts so long.

I'm young and Naive, and I don't think I can fully grasp why I like this film so much, or why I like any film so much. I think it's all for very personal reasons buried deep inside. I have spent most of my short life observing things rather than participating, And films like this inspire me to just go out and do something. I talk so much about my aspirations but I rarely do anything about them. I'm slacking off in college after I told everyone I couldn't wait to go, just stuff like that. There are probably other things buried deep inside that make me love this film, but I couldn't write them. I feel like I have all the potential energy of the universe in me, but no medium to express it through. I think I'm slowly overcoming this, or maybe thats just bullshit I'm telling myself too, but a viewing of Heaven can Wait always appeases my need for Instant Gratification with my life.

Sorry if that makes no sense at all.

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Michael
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#53 Post by Michael » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:19 pm

Sorry if that makes no sense at all.
No need to be sorry. Every bit of what you just wrote makes perfect sense.

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zedz
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#54 Post by zedz » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:07 pm

This might be my favourite Lubitsch. When I first saw it on TV ages ago, it immediately became one of my favourite films, but Lubitsch's touch is so light, and the film's charms are so subtle, that after a while I forgot what it was about it that I used to like. When I saw it again on DVD, it all came flooding back: it's souffle light, but it can turn on a dime from broad comedy to subtle pathos. Even though the film seems on the surface to be a series of more or less frothy anecdotes, and it's all set within that jokey frame, it's got an amazing cumulative, serious dramatic power.

Ameche is pitch perfect, and his perpetual refusal to take things seriously inoculates the film against sentimentality. Tierney is an extremely limited actress who somehow managed to stumble into several roles perfect for her (how ungallant of me!): Leave Her to Heaven makes a meal of her brittleness, and Laura and Whirlpool persuasively present her vagueness as depth. But I think she's terrific in this film in a difficult role she's really worked hard to master.

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#55 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:24 pm

Except for "Ninotchka", my least favorite Lubitsch to date. I really expected to like this, but it did little for me. I strongly disliked the way color was used in this -- but, in most other ways, it left me indifferent. I guess I (strongly) prefer the more mean-spirited films of Lubitsch -- "Marriage Circle", "So This Is Paris", "Design for Living", "Tr4ouble inb Paradise" -- though I do like "Shop Around the Corner" and "Smiling Lieutenant" too.

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Michael Kerpan
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#56 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:27 pm

davidhare wrote:Best character in the movie is the all too brief Laird Cregar!

Find it almost impossible to call a favorite Lubitsch Musical - maybe Merry Widow?
Agree on Cregar. I enjoy his performance unreservedly.

Haven't seen "Merry Widow", alas -- so "Smiling Lieutenant" holds my spot for top musical.

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domino harvey
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#57 Post by domino harvey » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:32 am

the first five minutes of this film are the best first five minutes of any film

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Scharphedin2
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#58 Post by Scharphedin2 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:18 am

First, kudos to SncDthMnky for a moving post on how this film affected him.

It is a film almost designed to make the viewer examine his or her own life. What particularly moved me was the rhythm and repetition: the birthdays/anniversaries that open each new sequence of the film; the events in the lives of the characters that recur with variations in each generation; the simple, inescapable pattern that death follows birth. And, I agree with zedz on the part that it is all so light and elegant, the way Lubitsch achieves this that it probably does not stirke most viewers to begin with that the patterns will continue, and that, while the individual vignettes making up the body of the film are humorous, the sum total is tragic. Of course, Lubitsch manages to have his cake and eat it too at the very end, and I for one could not help but love him for it.

I think I am not spoiling anything, if I mention that one of the "chapters" in the film closes with a dance, and as the camera cranes up, there is a single line of voice-over that is very matter-of-fact and not too much of a surprise, but at the same time it is devastating, again because of the pang of recognition that anybody watching the film will have. Everyone, in one way or another, will be able to look back on life, and think of a particular moment, maybe not too significant in itself, but which in hindsight will take on much greater meaning, and this is what Lubitsch captures so movingly in this particular scene.

In closing this post with a comment on the comedy, I award Eugene Pallette the prize for greatest comedic actor of breakfast scenes. There is in Preston Sturges' The Lady Eve a scene, wherein Pallette -- as the "emperor" of an ale empire and choleric father to the bumpling Henry Fonda character -- comes downstairs in his mansion, positions himself at the breakfast table, and discovers that while the table is set as usual, no breakfast has been prepared. He rings his bell for the servants, but, alas, they are all far too busy preparing the household for a big dinner party that has been arranged to present the European niece (Barbara Stanwyck in a turn of events too complicated to go into here) of a neighbor to society. Sturges shows us all the frantic and hilarious activities of the servants, cutting back several times to Pallette, as he is getting more and more agitated, finally banging the silver covers of his plates together and against the tabletop like cymbals in a desperate plea for attention and service.

Now, halfway through Heaven Can Wait, Lubitsch takes us into the diningroom of Tierney's parents, as they "meet" at their twenty foot diningroom table for breakfast. Her father is played by none other than Eugene Pallette, and he is again a growling, ornery patriarch and beef tycoon, whose greatest concern is to read the funny papers on this particular Sunday morning. At the other end of the table Marjorie Main has already taken her place at the table, and, yes, she has got the section with the funnies. At this point I knew that I would not soon forget this film, and, clearly Eugene Pallette has entered my personal all-star stock company, as the king of breakfast table scenes.

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#59 Post by Scharphedin2 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:20 am

I see that Pallette even starred in a film from 1940 by Alexander Hall called He Stayed For Breakfast :shock:

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tryavna
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#60 Post by tryavna » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:12 pm

Scharphedin2 wrote:I see that Pallette even starred in a film from 1940 by Alexander Hall called He Stayed For Breakfast :shock:
Did you also know that Pallette helped train the original Rin-Tin-Tin? He was an army buddy of Rinty's owner -- though it's hard to imagine Pallette ever being a doughboy (as opposed to a doughy boy).

But can imagine Pallette rewarding the dog with that voice of his? "Good boy! Good boy!"

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Scharphedin2
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#61 Post by Scharphedin2 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:22 pm

No, I had absolutely no idea... but the thought of it alone really makes me laugh.

Maybe I am not being kind to Eugene Pallette. I actually think he is a wonderful actor/personality in the films I have seen. All little parts that add so much color... just saw him in Renoir's Swamp Water as well. Probably less than 5 minutes of total screen time, but just perfect as a hick sheriff.

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#62 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:03 am

davidhare wrote:Indeed I think Raphelson's screnplay for this is way better than Heaven Can Wait. I wonder, am I the only person on the forum who isn't that crazy about Heaven? For one thing it's just not funny, and all that "unresolved moral tension" or whatever that people have been discussing is part of the problem (because the old balance between seriousness and lightness is missing here.) .
Oh thank fucking god somebody held up this stale trout for the stinker it is (though I haven't read to the end of the comments here... I'm commenting on daves post mid-page 2).

Just bought & watched this thing over the past 24 hrs (plugging some gaps in my CC holdings I was always a little self-conscious about not having-- have most I already really want, but all these Amex gift cards--, this being an unseen Lubitsch, naturally on the list). This film is dated, lukewarm, inconsistently charming, suffers from poor timing and weak performance, mildly funny at best ("If I'd met you as a young man I'd steal you right away from that sss..ss.....") and I am completely baffled why-- beyond magnificent cinematography (as usual.. par for the course for Cronjager) and art direction/costuming-- this is in the CC. This is the very first time I ever bought a CC disc that I genuinely want my money back. What other discs has Katherine Stetler & Jason Altman produced?

About the best thing that can be said beyond the visuals is how much fun it is to see all those Fox contact players who spangle those magnificent Sturges masterpieces. As opposed to those who see this film delicately gliding through poignancy and sneakily clever humor, this film registers to me as one that quite simply doesn't know what the hell it's doing and thus doesn't genuinely succeed on any front. I'd rather watch a just plain bad film from a shit C-list director than pablum from an A-list king like Lubitsch with all the power of studio artifice at his disposal... not only are you not getting artful entertainment, but the artifice/dollars block out the Substance Of The Era that usually soaks a poverty-stricken Bad Film.

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#63 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:23 pm

I could have sworn I commented (adversely) on this -- perhaps this happened on the previous incarnation of this site.

Not sure which I dislike more -- this film or Ninotchka. As much as I love the other Lubitsch I've seen (a fair amount), these two left me (mostly) cold.

As to cinematography, I affirmatively dislike the use of color in this film -- I find it way too often messy and cluttered looking color-wise.

One of my very biggest Criterion disappointments to date.

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#64 Post by CW Green » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:54 am

In an attempt to somehow derail the dislike for this film, albeit for a short time probably, I want to say that I really enjoyed it. The sentimentality could be off putting to some, but really, how could an old man relating his life story not be sentimental? Unless one's life was totally consumed by turmoil or anguish, it'd be difficult not to relish in good memories, but as I wrote before the mushiness could leave a bad taste in some viewer's mouths, which is perfectly understandable (the only reason I focus on this aspect of the film, is because this is the only prospective problem I see with it--enlighten me if I'm wrong). This is my first Lubitsch, so I have nothing to judge it against, but after viewing this I look forward to delving into more of his work.

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#65 Post by Cinesimilitude » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:03 am

Schreck, before I throw out any of my assumed explainations for why we disagree over this film so much, I'd love to know your age. Infact, I wish we had a thread where everyone wrote a 500 word bio about themselves, and their background and their political standings, what food they like to eat, etc. I think I'd be able to discuss films much better If I knew the people I was talking to on a more personal level.

I think the fact that I'm young and naive is one of the things that makes me love a lot of the films that get torn to pieces on this board, since I have no limit to my suspension of disbelief. does that sound like a possibility? If I were to draw the lines in the sand, the two sides would be the young and the old, and those categories each contain dreamers and realists. Anything I've written past that just sounds tupid to me, so please, analyze that and let me know what you think. anybody.

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#66 Post by Scharphedin2 » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:24 am

HerrSchreck wrote:About the best thing that can be said beyond the visuals is how much fun it is to see all those Fox contact players who spangle those magnificent Sturges masterpieces.
To me at least this alone would be justification enough for the film.

Following on from the Criterion sale thread, and just reading some of the comments above again, I am still surprised at the adverse reactions to this particular film.

I can't really comment on the colors. To me they sold the idea of the place and time. However, I also admit that I was not that sensitive to the specific play of the colors, while I was watching the film. It could be, as Michael says, that they were cluttered.

Could it be that those posters who react negatively to this film is doing so, because of expectations to a "Lubitsch film" that were not met in this particular film? I would be unable to comment, as I have not seen enough of his work to have a general impression of the famous Lubtisch touch. However, aside from the film speaking to me on a personal level (see my post above), I do think this is a great example of a classic film from the dream factory -- everything is possible, and it is all done with charm and professionalism in every department.

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HerrSchreck
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#67 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:24 am

Well as I'm used to hearing the "older folks hate anything new (read "not classic)" that's an unusual angle.. i e you probably like it "because you're young". But I'm neither young or old. I'm in the unpeggable region wherein I just turned 40. If you saw me in person you'd probably peg me like most do for mid/late 20's (I'm very fortunate in the genetic zone; I can still pitch the beef horn inta creamy young pieces a college trim strumpet... upon intent of course, my old lady precluding that for me). Not old, me, but a young man who's not really a young man anymore.

I sense some self-deprecation in there which isn't really necessary-- if you like it, you're obviously not alone. The film made it into the collection, didn't it? Obviously some very seasoned film lovers thought quite highly of it. I had actually forgotten about your impassioned comments in this thread about the film, so feel free to pass over my 'request' as your earlier post pretty much answers my questions. If you feel you can shed further light, however, feel free.

It's just a curious spine# for me, this film, as I truly don't see what the CC producers saw in the film warranting its inclusion, whereas even if I don't go for a particular film(i e MOUCHETTE) I can still get a general idea why they put it in the collection.

EDIT: my post was in reply to the sonic death ape.

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Michael
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#68 Post by Michael » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:07 am

SncDthMnky wrote:I think the fact that I'm young and naive is one of the things that makes me love a lot of the films that get torn to pieces on this board, since I have no limit to my suspension of disbelief. does that sound like a possibility?
Hey, quit beating on yourself because the films you love get beat up by others. I've met some 50 year old guys who are far more naive than some 20 year old guys. Heaven Can Wait is loved by every generation. Every film has its share of love and hate. When Dylan became a member of this forum, I honestly thought he was at least 30 years old. He sounded so mature (and still does) so I was shocked when I found out he was still a high school student at that time. Dylan and you (sharing the same generation) have expressed love for 8 1/2 many times before. That may make one wonder what you guys see in this film that centers around a man in his 40s or 50s dealing with his midlife crisis, especially after going through a trail of relationships, heartbreaks, disappointments, etc., something that the majority of people in the same age group as Guido would understand better or identify with more.

What I'm trying to point out is that it doesn't matter how old you are or what generation you are in. How Heaven Can Wait affects you deeply, personally is all it matters.

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#69 Post by Michael » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:07 pm

SncDthMnky, check out Meet Me in St. Louis if you haven't seen it yet. I think it complements Heaven Can Wait wonderfully.

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#70 Post by Noiretirc » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:03 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:
davidhare wrote:Indeed I think Raphelson's screnplay for this is way better than Heaven Can Wait. I wonder, am I the only person on the forum who isn't that crazy about Heaven? For one thing it's just not funny, and all that "unresolved moral tension" or whatever that people have been discussing is part of the problem (because the old balance between seriousness and lightness is missing here.) .
Oh thank fucking god somebody held up this stale trout for the stinker it is (though I haven't read to the end of the comments here... I'm commenting on daves post mid-page 2).

Just bought & watched this thing over the past 24 hrs (plugging some gaps in my CC holdings I was always a little self-conscious about not having-- have most I already really want, but all these Amex gift cards--, this being an unseen Lubitsch, naturally on the list). This film is dated, lukewarm, inconsistently charming, suffers from poor timing and weak performance, mildly funny at best ("If I'd met you as a young man I'd steal you right away from that sss..ss.....") and I am completely baffled why-- beyond magnificent cinematography (as usual.. par for the course for Cronjager) and art direction/costuming-- this is in the CC. This is the very first time I ever bought a CC disc that I genuinely want my money back. What other discs has Katherine Stetler & Jason Altman produced?

About the best thing that can be said beyond the visuals is how much fun it is to see all those Fox contact players who spangle those magnificent Sturges masterpieces. As opposed to those who see this film delicately gliding through poignancy and sneakily clever humor, this film registers to me as one that quite simply doesn't know what the hell it's doing and thus doesn't genuinely succeed on any front. I'd rather watch a just plain bad film from a shit C-list director than pablum from an A-list king like Lubitsch with all the power of studio artifice at his disposal... not only are you not getting artful entertainment, but the artifice/dollars block out the Substance Of The Era that usually soaks a poverty-stricken Bad Film.
This very much reflects my feelings on HCW. I vacillate between feeling that it is vastly over-rated, or cursing myself for completely missing train on this one. I love it's surface beauty, but I can't help feeling that there is something intensely lacking in this film. We are asked to accept that womanizing and debauchery occurred. I cannot imagine Ameche's character doing this. I just cannot accept it, because his performance is too understated for this, and the other performances often seemed like they were phoned in. This film is inert. Empty. It's just "there". I didn't laugh or feel. I didn't care. But I seriously did try.

I must try again. Obviously.

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#71 Post by Noiretirc » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:40 am

Michael wrote:SncDthMnky, check out Meet Me in St. Louis if you haven't seen it yet. I think it complements Heaven Can Wait wonderfully.
IMHO, Meet Me In St Louis towers above HCW in all aspects. It is witty, charming, and even downright fucking scary at times. HCW, well, isn't. I'm not merely trying to be contrarian, or a complete nuisance. The love for HCW baffles me.

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Re: 291 Heaven Can Wait

#72 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:45 am

Even repeat viewings of this film don't help me get going with it. The only variations in response come viz my assessment in sum-- i e is it a complete dog, actively feeling that it is a truly bad film, an untterly failed Very Bad Film?, or is it more along the lines of a feeling that Heaven Cant Wait is simply Not A Good Film... i e not "bad" in any sense, you can get thru it as a time-passer, etc., but in terms of capital C-Cinema, and Lube's overall canon, it's found very weak & wanting.

I've thought the former at times, and I've thought the latter at times (I tried a couple of times to groove with it). Although it's not a complete and total stinker, it comes pretty darmed close for me in spots.

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Michael
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Re: Re:

#73 Post by Michael » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:18 am

Noiretirc wrote:
IMHO, Meet Me In St Louis towers above HCW in all aspects. It is witty, charming, and even downright fucking scary at times. HCW, well, isn't. I'm not merely trying to be contrarian, or a complete nuisance. The love for HCW baffles me.
Seconded. I watched HCM shortly before last Christmas and wasn't really wowed by any bit of it. It was like Champagne being left out corked for days - no bubbles, no sparks. (The night before, I watched Leave Her to Heaven also with Gene Tierney, now that's WOWZER of a film!)

I don't know why I said it complimented MMISL, I guess I was trying to recruit more people to watch the Minnelli. :) Someone here recommended Renoir's The River as a double bill with MMISL and I couldn't agree more.

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Re: 291 Heaven Can Wait

#74 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:57 am

I can't decide whether I dislike HCW or Ninotchka more. Neither offers much of what I value most in my favorite Lubitsch films. ;~{

(I think HCW is visually much uglier than Ninotchka -- on the other hand I do like Laird Cregar's performance more than anyt I remember from Ninotchka).

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Re: 291 Heaven Can Wait

#75 Post by karmajuice » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:17 pm

It's been a few months since I've seen HCW, but I was pretty underwhelmed by it. I love Ninotchka, though (it was my first Lubitsch, although my favorite is probably To Be or Not to Be). Looking back, all I can remember about HCW are the colors, the afterlife bookends, and the scene where the two dance alone. Otherwise, it had almost no impact. It felt very average, and I tend to dislike average things even more than those which are outright awful.

The film, especially as it neared the end, seemed to play all the notes one would expect of a story like this -- not one sour note, or variation, or addition.

As a side note, I do like the title an awful lot.

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