Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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FrauBlucher
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#351 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:16 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:10 pm
I hear that as soon as the news broke that it was region free, the number of orders from Sweden went through the roof, as there's no equivalent there.
Because it was region free they should've calculated the demand differently. Being that there is one replication center now. Have to wonder what kind of back ordering issues will arise.

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domino harvey
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#352 Post by domino harvey » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:58 pm

Someone on the Blu-ray Forum emailed Criterion, who confirmed the sales surprised them and there wouldn't be additional copies ready til Jan/Feb-- perhaps this being available again will be the release the Feb Crit sale is based upon

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Lowry_Sam
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#353 Post by Lowry_Sam » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:02 pm

OOP on Amazon, only available from 3rd party at full retail ($399).

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bunuelian
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#354 Post by bunuelian » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:13 pm

From a marketing standpoint creating an artificial supply problem is a good way to get people to feel they "have to have it" once it's available again. It's entirely possible this is a deliberate strategy.

I'm going to try to sell mine for $25,000, meantime.

unclehulot
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#355 Post by unclehulot » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:24 pm

bunuelian wrote:From a marketing standpoint creating an artificial supply problem is a good way to get people to feel they "have to have it" once it's available again. It's entirely possible this is a deliberate strategy.

I'm going to try to sell mine for $25,000, meantime.
Ok, you sell yours for $25,000 and then you’ll have plenty of $s to buy my copy for $750!

There were similar problems with the George Szell complete Columbia album collection issued a few months ago by Sony, and lots of borderline conspiracy theories about it being permanently OOP, and prices spiked from various sellers, but eventually they got it out there and prices stabilized. In that case there IS the legitimate finite release life that has been a pattern with those kind of Sony releases. With Criterion we KNOW they’ll press more and it’s only the changing of rights owners that would curtail the availability of the set. I AM happy that demand was greater than anticipated.....maybe Kurosawa, Ozu or Mizoguchi or maybe even (dreaming out loud) Naruse could get a similar treatment. It’s just too bad that they can’t take advantage of the holiday buying season. It’s indeed a thing of beauty.


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aox
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#356 Post by aox » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:17 pm

bunuelian wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:13 pm
I'm going to try to sell mine for $25,000, meantime.
I'll give you $27,500 if you can ship it overnight!

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domino harvey
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#357 Post by domino harvey » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:50 pm

Discussion of what auteurs could potentially receive this treatment in the future moved here. Please stick to discussion of this box and its contents in this thread (and it's my fault for starting the detour!)

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Lowry_Sam
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#358 Post by Lowry_Sam » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:00 pm

So I couldn’t resist tearing off the plastic and peaking inside, I’ll just wrap it bare for myself so I have something to open on Xmas. Initial impressions are quite positive, probably give it A-, It definitely edges out Dietrich/v Sternberg box for release of the year without hesitation. I actually like the packaging better than individual spines in a box. The large b&w photos are nice & the box is sturdy. Pulling discs out is a bit of a pain, perhaps a notch on the top would have helped to use your fingernail, but at least the backing has a smooth surface that’ll make scratching less likely. It would have been preferable to have the listing of bonus material with the discs, next to the filmography, but at least it’s in the book. The book is soft cover & not as hefty as the one housing the discs, but I suppose that helps lighten the load for shipping. I only flipped briefly through it, but it does look a little sparse for such a voluminous release. Text is split into 2 columns w/ lots of white space on the page, seems like they could have fit a lot more (ie the material in the previous booklets) into it (also don’t see any more of the gorgeous film stills as on the cover). I’m neutral on the box’s “film festival” organization, with the filmography page, finding the films isn’t too tough. As for the contents goes, a few of the missing titles would have been nice, but not being familiar with any except It Rains On Our Love (which I found ok, but not something I felt I’d ever be compelled to rewatch) I didn’t feel too shorted. I’m also not sure of what additional material is out there for supplements (I do have the Saraband dvd, but never got around to the supplements). I popped a few discs in after seeing concerns over color (and my own over fitting all of the tv series on to a single disc gain). F&A was first & I was quite pleased with the improvement in quality on that one and to me the colors looked exactly like I remembered when I first saw my 1st Bergman film in the mid 80s (in the theater). Smiles was next & looks to have more detail, but was also lighter (grayer blacks) than I remember. Color on Cries & Whispers looked fine to me too, though grain seemed more pronounced during motion (noticeable when freezing a frame) than I had remembered on previous disc. Same for Scenes from a Marriage, but I never got around to buying that one & watched it once from a library copy. The color looked fine to me, but the TV version looked better than the theatrical version on quick perusal. I don’t like the barebones menus much, but if they’ve done it to minimize the amount of space used to maximize space for content, then I’m ok w/ it. That’s all for now. Time to wrap it up & put it under the tree.

Addendum: I noticed the blurb sheet on the box identifies it as “First Printing 2018”, so Criterion is identifying pressings now?

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tenia
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#359 Post by tenia » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:49 am

Lowry_Sam wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:00 pm
Addendum: I noticed the blurb sheet on the box identifies it as “First Printing 2018”, so Criterion is identifying pressings now?
I don't think it's new.
EDIT : checked that on various older BD releases and indeed, it's indicated First Pressing 20xx even back to 8 1/2 released in 2009.
Last edited by tenia on Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kcota17
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#360 Post by kcota17 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:20 am

This set is absolutely stunning but I flipped through The Magic Flute and wow that looks terrible. Almost as if it was shot on video as it looks a video-sourced 70’s TV movie the way it’s presented. It seems as if it’s had problems on home video, so I couldn’t say if it gave off this effect with other releases.

But Criterion might as well hit bitger releasing that standalone disc if it’s going to end up being presented like that.

Everything else so far looks incredible.

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#361 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:05 am

Mine cleared customs and then was seized back again and has languished there for 3 days Hope it's not ominous. Maybe they're watching it which means another month of delay

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MichaelB
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#362 Post by MichaelB » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:27 am

kcota17 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:20 am
This set is absolutely stunning but I flipped through The Magic Flute and wow that looks terrible. Almost as if it was shot on video as it looks a video-sourced 70’s TV movie the way it’s presented. It seems as if it’s had problems on home video, so I couldn’t say if it gave off this effect with other releases.
The Magic Flute was shot on 16mm for Swedish television, so there's an upper limit to how good it can realistically look in high-def.

Going from the Beaver caps, the Criterion colours are a lot closer to what I remember from multiple cinema screenings than the BFI release.

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bunuelian
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#363 Post by bunuelian » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:43 pm

I flushed $25,000 down the drain last night and opened up the set to scratch Smiles off my kevyip. I'd been persuaded to avoid this title when CC released it back in the day as I wasn't particularly keen on the notion of a Bergman comedy, but today I stand corrected. I couldn't help but feel that Bergman was crafting something ahead of the times when he made this. So many wonderful moments. Those sly glances!

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domino harvey
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#364 Post by domino harvey » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:45 pm

Not all of Bergman's comedies are awful-- Waiting Women is actually a pretty good movie-- but I can't say I have much affection for Smiles. I actually think it's a disastrous choice to open the set for new viewers, but maybe I'm wrong

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TheRanchHand
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#365 Post by TheRanchHand » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:01 pm

Putting in Scene From a Marriage as the very first title off this set might might not be the best idea.... My 4K TV did not enjoy the 16mm image very well as a drop off point. Though as I clicked over to Saraband, the visual difference was striking. I am looking forward to watching each one of these if it does take a year to do it.

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tenia
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#366 Post by tenia » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:11 pm

Regarding Scenes, I'm very curious to see how Criterion handled the compression of this very grainy 16mm program. Both because they crammed the TV version on 1 disc (Studio Canal split it on 2 BDs), but also because they almost halved the video bitrate of the theatrical cut between their individual release and the boxset version.

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bunuelian
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#367 Post by bunuelian » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:37 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:45 pm
Not all of Bergman's comedies are awful-- Waiting Women is actually a pretty good movie-- but I can't say I have much affection for Smiles. I actually think it's a disastrous choice to open the set for new viewers, but maybe I'm wrong
I'd say I liked Smiles, but I didn't love it (and I have no regrets about not buying the old release, which would've sat on my shelf unwatched after the first viewing, most likely). I'm certain that my sentimentality about the cast significantly colored my reception of the film. I'll look forward to Waiting Women.

Introducing new viewers to Bergman is a complicated thing. There are so many differing opinions about which films or periods are his "best." I feel like The Seventh Seal is an obvious choice, but my experience was a bit cool toward that film on first viewing, while the Nykvist era stuff resonated instantly. I just hesitate to toss most uninitiated viewers into the psychological deep end too quickly.

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Lowry_Sam
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#368 Post by Lowry_Sam » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 pm

tenia wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:11 pm
I'm very curious to see how Criterion handled the compression of this very grainy 16mm program...
I’ve seen 16mm on blu-Ray look better, but I don’t doubt that it probably looks better than the dvd’s did, though the greater detail might be a factor in making it more noticeable. I’m not that knowledgeable on compression & encoding, but in my quick perusal of the discs I noticed much more grain when freezing an image than while it was playing, more pronounced than I’ve ever noticed on a disc before. I assume that the reason why they used green title cards in the film over the tv version is because of the grain is very noticeable in the black & white titles of the tv version & perhaps that has influenced me in to thinking the film version doesn’t look as good as the tv version. The clarity of Saraband (as well as the Sony ID preceding the film) really does pop out at you when you switch to it.

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domino harvey
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#369 Post by domino harvey » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:41 pm

bunuelian wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:37 pm
domino harvey wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:45 pm
Not all of Bergman's comedies are awful-- Waiting Women is actually a pretty good movie-- but I can't say I have much affection for Smiles. I actually think it's a disastrous choice to open the set for new viewers, but maybe I'm wrong
I'd say I liked Smiles, but I didn't love it (and I have no regrets about not buying the old release, which would've sat on my shelf unwatched after the first viewing, most likely). I'm certain that my sentimentality about the cast significantly colored my reception of the film. I'll look forward to Waiting Women.
A Lesson in Love is also quite good-- I don't remember how they're arranged in the set, but that and Waiting Women would be a good double bill of successful light Bergman comedies. The Devil's Eye is probably a rung below those, and then Smiles and All These Women bring up the rear for me

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domino harvey
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#370 Post by domino harvey » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:35 am

Image

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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#371 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:09 pm

Resale prices are already climbing ($300+ on eBay and Amazon, approaching $400 soon I'm sure) so I sort of wish I'd purchased two of them to pay for the one I kept (yes, I am a terrible terrible person). Sold out on Amazon, B&N [of course], and Criterion.com. Did not expect this kind of thing, got very lucky to purchase one and it's going to motivate me to give some of the discs within a spin over the holidays sooner than I might have planned.

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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#372 Post by Glowingwabbit » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:19 pm

My plan was to wait until the Feb flash sale because I have a $50 rewards certificate and I haven't sold off my solo Bergmans yet. So this works for me.

It's crazy that anyone would buy it on eBay for those prices since it will have a 2nd release.

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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#373 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:24 pm

Money isn't an object to everyone. That's exactly why things have resale markets in the first place - some can afford not to be bargain hunters and instead just purchase what they'd like to purchase when they want to purchase it. Totally foreign to me and most here, of course, but it's not altogether unbelievable.

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swo17
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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#374 Post by swo17 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:24 pm

If I can get that much out of it from someone desperate to get it now before Christmas, I can absolutely wait until February to get another identical copy. It's kind of like an airline paying you for being willing to be bumped to a later flight.

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Re: Ingmar Bergman's Cinema

#375 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:31 pm

I've already opened it and it would be a gigantic pain in the ass to ship, so to hell with it, it's mine now

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