942 The Tree of Life

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greggster59
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1226 Post by greggster59 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:52 am

black&huge wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:35 am
greggster59 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:32 pm
This guy isn't even a Malick fan. He calls the Thin Red Line mediocre and The New World disappointing.
Is he wrong or something?
Not necessarily wrong. But, it might explain why he didn't put the time into watching/reviewing the differences between the theatrical and extended cuts.
In the case of The Tree of Life, it's the differences between the two versions that most viewers are curious about.

mteller
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1227 Post by mteller » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:44 am

The sequence chronicling one explanation for life on Earth alone runs 17 minutes.
Maybe he's an offended creationist?

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dda1996a
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1228 Post by dda1996a » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:12 am

Lost Highway wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:16 am
I used to be a fan of Malick. As I haven't like a film I've seen of his since the extended cut of The New World, it would hardly be fair to still count myself as a fan.
Since I love everything up to Tree of Life but dislike what followed I still consider myself an avid fan of his.

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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1229 Post by cdnchris » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:26 am

He finally clicked with me after I watched Days of Heaven (I think) after I saw his other films, though liked Badlands a lot and New World well enough. I was able to watch Thin Red Line again with a better appreciation and then ended up really liking Tree of Life when I saw it (surprisingly my wife loves it). But yeah, I didn't hate his next film, To the Wonder, yet it was underwhelming. And then I couldn't help but laugh at/during Knight of Cups. Can't bring myself to watch Song to Song.

Even then, I think I'm still a fan.

I rewatched the theatrical version and hope to watch the extended version tonight, but may have to spread it over a couple of nights (because children are soul suckers, let me tell you...)

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domino harvey
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1230 Post by domino harvey » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:28 am

I'm not a fan, but I still feel compelled to see all of his films and enjoyed two greatly. Not sure what the label for that would be, though

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cdnchris
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1231 Post by cdnchris » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:39 pm

Would it be the film buff version of "friend zoning"* someone? I like what you do, but just not in that way.
*Hopefully to avoid an off-topic discussion, I don't actually think this is a thing

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Mr Sausage
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1232 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:37 pm

domino harvey wrote:I'm not a fan, but I still feel compelled to see all of his films and enjoyed two greatly. Not sure what the label for that would be, though
Aren’t you that way with de Palma as well?

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domino harvey
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1233 Post by domino harvey » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:59 pm

I hadn't thought of it, but I think so! I just did a quick run through De Palma's filmography and I like or love six of them, but since he has more movies, the ratio's probably worse in that I only strongly dislike two Malick movies-- but as with Malick, when De Palma fails, he fails hard for me. But I'd still watch another De Palma movie, so ultimately, yes

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hearthesilence
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1234 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:33 pm

Badlands and Days of Heaven are the only two Malick films that didn't leave me with mixed feelings. They're both masterpieces (and Days of Heaven may be my favorite of the two). Since then, I've had reservations about all of them, but the strengths typically outweigh the flaws.

The Thin Red Line is far from perfect, but most of the time it's astounding - it was the first time I saw a Malick film, and I actually stayed in the theater and watched it a little over two times in a row. There were moments where Malick seemed to miraculously work in tandem with nature on both a massive and small scale (or vice versa). In reality, he was "simply" opening a big budget production to the working rhythms of cinema vérité documentary filmmaking but regardless, it was truly a singular achievement. There was simply no one else around achieving the same results.

The New World had a similar dynamic, but it was more of a mixed bag. I think The Thin Red Line may have had the advantage of a novel, because it gave that film a lot to build from. The New World felt more bare with a lot less to flesh out its ideas. They were less than elemental, they verged on simplistic, but the opening is fantastic, and the closing act manages to bring it all together. There are long stretches that feel like silent filmmaking of the highest order. Again, it didn't feel like there was anyone else doing what Malick was achieving, so it remained a commendable failure.

The Tree of Life remain the apotheosis of Malick's art, for better and for worse. It's not perfect, but I don't hesitate to call it a masterpiece because what works is the greatest bit of filmmaking Malick's ever done. In a lot of ways it maps out his work to date, and I'm sorry to say, it's been diminishing returns for me. His filmmaking has grown more radical, but it's an impressive structure with very little inside - he doesn't seem to have anything compelling to say anymore. It feels like he exhausted his ideas with The Tree of Life.

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dda1996a
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1235 Post by dda1996a » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:52 pm

Even though I disliked To the Wonder, Knight of Cups and Voyage of Time I found Song to Song oddly compelling. It's thesis is the worst thing Malick ever written, but I found it at least had emotions and his special way of looking at things (humans, nature, architecture) with the music scene somehow connected this time (which I guess is that it's less annoying than Knight of Cups). I also think Blanchett works wonders with Malick. Her five minutes were the only good scenes out of Cups and she likewise did wonders in Song.
But I think the problem with these post Tree films is that this achronology, voice-overs whispers just work perfectly (at least for me) as someone looking back on his old memories and trying to make sense of them, rather than white males feeling ennui when surrounded by money and beautiful females.
Anyway I'm very curious to watch this new cut as Tree of Life already is among my all time favorites (which is a lot since I also consider Badlands, DoH and TRL up there as well)

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John Cope
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1236 Post by John Cope » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:24 pm

I love most Malick. I actually consider the loose trilogy from To the Wonder through Song to Song to be the best films of this decade. His particular technique and approach has been refined and perfected to an extraordinary extent, building on and developing upon the pivotal Tree of Life. Oddly perhaps I like Tree least. At least up to now. Will check back after seeing this new cut.

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tenia
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1237 Post by tenia » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:42 am

I'm probably amongst the weird ones : I never particularly liked Days of Heaven or Badlands. They both leave me quite cold, though between the 2, I preferred Badlands.

On the other side, The New World and The Tree of Life both are amongst my favourite movies ever. I've positively re-evaluated The Thin Red Line when it got released on Blu-ray. And I'm quite mixed regarding his later output : I quite disliked Knight of Cups, liked the first half of To The Wonder, and quite liked Song to Song though it felt way too loose. Haven't watched Voyage of Time yet.

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dwk
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1238 Post by dwk » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:26 am

Came across this review of the Criterion release, which said the following about the additional material:
Most of the new material is in the second half, appearing around the 90-minute mark, and deals with angry young Jack “acting out,” and the rigidness of Mr. O’Brien regarding how he treats his sons, especially his eldest. There is a little addition in the first half-hour that gives the adult Jack more depth (which, frankly, could have been useful in the theatrical release).

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greggster59
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1239 Post by greggster59 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:58 pm

Nice!
And the reviewer basically says the new cut won't likely change minds about the film. But, fans will enjoy it.

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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1240 Post by cdnchris » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:16 am

I have only made it halfway through the extended cut and I am so far surprised that the "narrative" is pretty much the same (so far, though chapter stops suggest it replicates the theatrical cut sequentially). There are some added shots, but the Sean Penn sequence has quite a bit more in it, more "torment" I guess, including this one moment where some Richard Kiel type mother fucker grabs Penn by the throat (no idea why). A lot of it is him wandering around a bit more, mixed with some "archival" footage and standard-definition footage. But yeah, I could see why Penn would have been ultimately confused as to what he was doing in the film.

ivuernis
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1241 Post by ivuernis » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:23 am

cdnchris wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:16 am
some Richard Kiel type mother fucker
Dalip Singh AKA The Great Khali? IIRC in some articles about Tree of Life when it was initially announced he was mentioned as having a part. It didn't seem in keeping with Malick's aesthetic at the time (remember this was about 2008 before he went all free-form) and I was glad he didn't appear in the theatrical cut. Your description of the extended cut does not exactly inspire me that it is worth the upgrade (have the Criterion UK disc on back-order though).

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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1242 Post by cdnchris » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:57 pm

I posted a picture on Facebook and someone commented it looked like him so I'm pretty sure that's who it is.

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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1243 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:58 pm

I saw a picture of it on Twitter from a wrestling fan and thought it was a goof at first. I knew he was in the movie but I thought it would have been somewhere else.

He also appears in the 2005 remake of The Longest Yard.

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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1244 Post by cdnchris » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:44 pm

SpoilerShow
my guess is that he might be the husband or boyfriend of a woman Penn's character is banging, but it's not entirely clear.

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hearthesilence
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1245 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:21 am

I can imagine Malick thinking, "well, I'm not sure how I want to plot this film, but if I can keep everything vague and ambiguous, I can decide on the story later and piece together any plot I want during the editing." Brilliant!

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The Pachyderminator
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1246 Post by The Pachyderminator » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:18 pm

hearthesilence wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:21 am
I can imagine Malick thinking, "well, I'm not sure how I want to plot this film, but if I can keep everything vague and ambiguous, I can decide on the story later and piece together any plot I want during the editing." Brilliant!
Not sure how sarcastic this is meant to be, but isn't this actually how Malick's filmmaking process works, at least since Tree of Life - filming a huge amount of semi-improvised material, and then working it out in the editing room?

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Lost Highway
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1247 Post by Lost Highway » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:15 am

Same with The Thin Red Line. Adrien Brody was pretty much the lead character of that film, then most of his work ended up on the cutting room floor.

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hearthesilence
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1248 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:42 am

The Pachyderminator wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:18 pm
hearthesilence wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:21 am
I can imagine Malick thinking, "well, I'm not sure how I want to plot this film, but if I can keep everything vague and ambiguous, I can decide on the story later and piece together any plot I want during the editing." Brilliant!
Not sure how sarcastic this is meant to be, but isn't this actually how Malick's filmmaking process works, at least since Tree of Life - filming a huge amount of semi-improvised material, and then working it out in the editing room?
Yes that is his process, but it struck me as funny if he was purposely trying to keep things vague due to indecision over the plot. That's never the case though, Malick is purposely looking for the story in editing, just as a documentary filmmaker would do the same.

GoodOldNeon
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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1249 Post by GoodOldNeon » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:45 am

A few words on the extended cut:

As mentioned above, the narrative is very similar to the theatrical cut. Roughly speaking, the creation sequence and the ending are unchanged, while there is more footage of Mr. and Mrs. O'Brien after they receive the letter at the beginning, more footage of adult Jack, and a lot more footage of young Jack. The result is essentially a much slower paced version of the theatrical cut, which makes the viewing experience quite different. Based on one viewing I would say it is too slow, particularly during the young Jack section, which gets a little repetitive. That said, I'm still glad all this new footage is now available.

One area where I think the extended cut definitely loses something relative to the theatrical cut is in the soundtrack, which doesn't gel with the image as perfectly as it does in the theatrical cut. This is disappointing since the marriage of sight and sound has always been one of my favourite aspects of the film. In particular, there is a section in the theatrical cut covering the birth and early lives of the boys, backed in part by Smetana's Vltava that, in my estimation, is as close to perfection as the cinema has ever reached, at least in terms of the interplay of music and image*. With the addition of the new footage this moment, and many others like it, is now completely different, unfortunately for the worse.

Overall, the extended cut won't win over anyone who didn't like the theatrical cut, and I doubt if I will ever feel the need to watch it again, but nevertheless I'm glad it exists.

*Ok, maybe the ending of Koyaanisqatsi just edges it for the #1 spot, but in any case it's definitely top 2.
Last edited by GoodOldNeon on Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 942 The Tree of Life

#1250 Post by aox » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:28 am

GoodOldNeon wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:45 am
Overall, the extended cut won't win over anyone who didn't like the theatrical cut, and I doubt if I will ever feel the need to watch it again, but nevertheless I'm glad it exists.
Damn. That is a disappointing. This is a movie I, for some reason (its audacity and scope), really want to like. I really only love two of his films: Days of Heaven and To the Wonder (the latter being heavily flawed).

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