147 In the Mood for Love

[yoloswegmaster]

considering the original versions are still on the channel too, I do believe them on this. I think this is another situation (I believe Heaven's Gate was the other) where you can tell Criterion wanted to include all versions of the movie but the director insisted they include their "definitive" one

That would most certainly be the reason since an alternate version was included on the one film that WKW doesn't have the rights to (he also doesn't have the rights to As Tears Go By and he only has international rights to 2046). Not to mention that the other worldwide releases don't include the alternative versions for all the films that he did alter.

[senseabove]

Sure with they would bring Chungking back in print and quietly release the old versions of the other titles... They could make the first "NOT Director Approved" sticker with a conspicuously empty space where the signature would be.

[vsski]

From what I read I think in this case the color scheme can be attributed to WKW wanting it that way and it’s not a matter of different reference prints where it’s hard to say with certainty what the color should look like or a lab wanting to impose their scheme for whatever misguided reason.
I also don’t think it’s a random dude on the Internet making a statement, as it’s too many dudes saying the same thing in too many different statements.

I do agree that what people see in theaters may not always be the “correct” version, as it depends on the condition of the print they have seen.

And frankly I would be the first one to admit that for a large part of movies I have seen many many years ago, I wouldn’t remember the color of the shirt the actor wore in a particular scene let alone the particular shade of said color.
However, there are some movies that do stand out in memory and for me it’s not because of a particular color scheme, but because of the emotional impact the movie had on me. And because of this emotional impact, I do remember much more about this movie than just the storyline or actors and crew who worked on it.
ITMFL is clearly one of them and I remember the colors vividly and to me the red and brown tones were instrumental in creating the atmosphere evoked in the title and in myself.
I have seen it several times in theaters and with different prints (even in different countries), and I remember people at the time talking about the colors as well. Plus I’m not the only one remembering the movie this way, so I feel fairly comfortable that in this case it’s not faulty memory.
Plus when you see what WKW has done with his movies, the statements he made and even someone like Criterion keeping different versions in play as much as their agreements permit, I think it speaks volumes as to what is going on here.

Another recent example where I felt the colors are integral to look and feel of the movies are the Zhang Yimou / Gong Li movies released by Imprint, at least the first three. Here again I saw these movies multiples times in theaters (and different places) and the color red was so vivid that it stuck in my memory. So seeing the Imprint versions with a totally faded / washed out color palette was a major disappointment. Although in that case I don’t attribute it to a director or label or lab wanting to impart their views on how the movies should look like, but simply on the existing elements the master was made of and making a case for a much needed restoration.

Fortunately what happened with the WKW movies appears to be a rarity, unfortunately it happened to some of my favorite movies.
What tenia describes with the labs in many ways is much more concerning given the amount and combined impact this has on the legacy of movies. And this I have say is even less understandable than an individual director changing his mind over how his movies should look like, however disappointing that is.

[RIP Film]

I’m not so invested in this film as some here but watched it last night after having not seen it for years, switching between the two versions halfway through. The change in color didn’t bother me so much as the de-noising or lack of film grain? It just has that look of being toyed with by modern software. In most cases I feel like the hues WKW wants in the new editions were already present, he just pumps it up to 10.

[tenia]

In most cases I feel like the hues WKW wants in the new editions were already present, he just pumps it up to 10.

When I saw the restoration in theater a few years ago, the denoising was less blatant to me, but yeah, it felt like the hues visible here were kind of there in the past, except less obvious or pumped up. It might just be that whoever did this, it somehow fits with the original hues anyway.

[mhofmann]

The change in color didn’t bother me so much as the de-noising or lack of film grain? It just has that look of being toyed with by modern software.

Yep, same here, and it was. It looks equally bad on the German 4K UHD, so I don't have high hope for the Criterion release to retain any more film grain.

[tenia]

While I certainly don't think the new colors and the degraining are doing any good, the older Criterion BD is sourced from an older master, it's not ageing that well, and from I see on caps-a-holic (ie on definition alone), the older CC BD isn't better than the Koch UHD.

[criterionsnob]

"No man ever steps in the same river twice..." unless it's for a 4K release.

[swo17]

Ha! This river has barely changed in the last year

[hearthesilence]

"No man ever steps in the same river twice..." unless it's for a 4K release.

And one would have an easier time taking pee out of a pool than getting things back to how it was.

[feihong]

Somehow in UHD the color shift ends up looking worse.

[Finch]

Somebody needs to ask Christopher Doyle point blank for a frank answer about what he thinks of the changes WKW has made to his stunning cinematography. It probably wouldn't be flattering but I also sense Doyle has long moved on from his WKW years. And Tooze has demonstrated his lack of taste once again by warming to the hideous green filter. It may be that WKW disallowed the application of HDR but that makes the release as it is a cynical cash grab just the same from Criterion. They might as well have given that 4k slot to a different title altogether. Thumbs down to all involved.

[tenia]

The movie was released in HDR on UHD in France and Germany, so Criterion are so far the only ones doing a UHD SDR release of it...

[dwk]

According to some posts at the Blu-ray forum, the HDR on the European discs are really SDR in an HDR container. So I'm not really sure that having the HDR makes much of a difference.

I assume they got a lot of requests for this title, but if they had to break out a title from the set, it would have been nice if it were one of the 3 that WKW doesn't own (As Tears Go By, Days of Being Wild, or 2046.)

[yoloswegmaster]

I'm fairly certain that WKW/Block 2 have the international rights to 2046, though not in the U.S. (and maybe the U.K.)

[Finch]

To be fair, HDR couldn't salvage anything that looks like Linda Blair spit pea soup all over it.

[Michael Kerpan]

I'm sort of glad I sort of gave up on WKW long ago.

[dwk]

I'm fairly certain that WKW/Block 2 have the international rights to 2046, though not in the U.S. (and maybe the U.K.)

They do, but Sony did the transfer for 2046. I don't have the set (I'm saving up my Criterion Channel $10 gift cards to pick it up for as little as possible), was the 2046 transfer as grain scrubbed as ITMFL's transfer?

[tenia]

According to some posts at the Blu-ray forum, the HDR on the European discs are really SDR in an HDR container. So I'm not really sure that having the HDR makes much of a difference.

It does in terms of marketing, though.

[mhofmann]

According to some posts at the Blu-ray forum, the HDR on the European discs are really SDR in an HDR container. So I'm not really sure that having the HDR makes much of a difference.

It does in terms of marketing, though.

And, unless I'm mistaken, w.r.t. to the color gamut (BT.2020 vs. BT.709). Not that it seems to make much of a difference here.

[Noiretirc]

I'm sort of glad I sort of gave up on WKW long ago.

Over the last 2 years, I've given up on WKW On Criterion.

[RIP Film]

I'm fairly certain that WKW/Block 2 have the international rights to 2046, though not in the U.S. (and maybe the U.K.)

They do, but Sony did the transfer for 2046. I don't have the set (I'm saving up my Criterion Channel $10 gift cards to pick it up for as little as possible), was the 2046 transfer as grain scrubbed as ITMFL's transfer?

I watched it a few nights ago and it looked fine, it was quite noticeable on ITMFL.