The framerate on the DFI edition of Leaves from Satan's book seems to be corrected to 17-18 fps (rough estimate). So without having seen the Image disc my guess is the Danish edition is not a longer cut.Scharphedin2 wrote:Tommaso, I cannot comment on the Image disc, as I have never seen it. However, I do own the disc from DFI, and I think it looks fantastic (I will be happy to post some caps, if you like). The actual running time of the film here is 157 minutes, but unfortunately it does not mention the running speed. All it says is: "HD transfer from a restored duplicate negative." Movement in the film seemed very "natural," if that means anything to you. The film is presented with Danish intertitles and optional English subtitles.
124-128 Carl Theodor Dreyer Box Set
- martin
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- Tommaso
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am
Thanks to both of you, indeed my main problem with the Image disc is that I feel it runs too fast. Just one last question before we go off topic completely: does the DFI have tintings, similar to the Image? I quite liked them on the Image disc.
And you're right, Sharph, I probably can't live without the DFI disc for long, although as I said, this is clearly my least favorite Dreyer. But if my bank account allows, I might jump at it should the Borzage finally materialize at filmmuseum. Their webshop is the easiest and cheapest way to get DFI discs in Germany. And btw: I dearly need a new bookrack as well...
And you're right, Sharph, I probably can't live without the DFI disc for long, although as I said, this is clearly my least favorite Dreyer. But if my bank account allows, I might jump at it should the Borzage finally materialize at filmmuseum. Their webshop is the easiest and cheapest way to get DFI discs in Germany. And btw: I dearly need a new bookrack as well...
- Tommaso
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am
Incidentally, the Mexican Bunuels have just been released in Germany in a 5-disc-set. Only with German subs, as was to be expected, but apparently quality is very good. Otherwise, I second the Dreyer/Eclipse suggestion, but as "Leaves" and "The Parson's Widow" are held by Image and "Michael" by Kino, such a box should contain "Die Gezeichneten" and "The Bride of Glomdal" at the least to make it attractive.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Ditto and ditto, though the "how bad can it be?" approach has led me into some truly awful filmgoing experiences in the past.Tommaso wrote:Zedz, of course I forgot "Two people", as almost everyone seems to when discussing Dreyer. I've never seen it, of course, but would be really interested, needless to say. The film has been dismissed by Dreyer and by critics alike,but still I cannot imagine that Dreyer would even have been ABLE to produce something outright bad.
And ditto again. Of all the Dreyer films I've seen, this seems the most anonymous, and I'm sure its derivative nature plays a large part of that (Intolerance-by-numbers), but I don't even see much in the way of personalised grace notes. It's as if this was strictly an assignment for Dreyer.Talking about re-evaluating Dreyer works: the only Dreyer I've seen that didn't exactly blow me away was "Leaves from Satan's books", though it's still not quite clear to me WHY.
As for first encounters, mine was Gertrud, and I was just hypnotised. It was early in my world cinema explorations and I'd never seen anything like it: it seemed to run forever and yet end too soon. At the time, I attributed its strangeness to my lack of experience. The same went for The Colour of Pomegranates and Three Crowns of a Sailor, seen at around the same time, and I was dead wrong on all three counts.
- Tommaso
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am
Yes, but it seldom happens with directors that you generally think are great. My favourite example for this rare occasion is Greenaway's "8 1/2 women"... I never thought it could be THAT bad, but it was.zedz wrote:Ditto and ditto, though the "how bad can it be?" approach has led me into some truly awful filmgoing experiences in the past.
Me too, but unless I still lack a lot of experience, it must be the film... Your description of "Gertrud" is most to the point. Perhaps the film only works if you indeed let yourself be hypnotized by it. If you try to analyze it while watching or even only try to distance yourself a little from what is going on, its slowness and bleakness becomes unbearable. A little like late Beckett, but without the laughter.... A one-of-a-kind film, and if anything, I'm amazed by Dreyer's daring. He became more uncompromising with any new film he directed. I really wonder how his "Jesus of Nazareth"-project would have turned out.As for first encounters, mine was Gertrud, and I was just hypnotised. It was early in my world cinema explorations and I'd never seen anything like it: it seemed to run forever and yet end too soon. At the time, I attributed its strangeness to my lack of experience.
On the other hand, I was instantly hypnotized and loved "Pomegranates", and it happens again every time I re-watch it. I've never seen "Three Crowns", nor, for that matter, anything by Ruiz. Probably a true gap...
- Michael Kerpan
- Spelling Bee Champeen
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- tryavna
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:38 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Adam, if you haven't already bought Criterion's Dreyer boxset, don't. Go with the four BFI releases instead (Master of the House, Day of Wrath, Ordet, and Gertrud). Apart from the incorrect aspect ration on Criterion's version of Gertrud, which has already been mentioned here, the BFI titles boast far more essential extras, including the same feature docu on Dreyer's career, a fine commentary by Caspar Tyberg on Day of Wrath, and most importantly seven of Dreyer's short films (five of which are otherwise unavailable anywhere).
BTW, I'm not advising you NOT to own the films in one form or another. But the BFIs are the way to go.
Also, I agree with Zedz and Tommaso re. Leaves from Satan's Book. Zedz put it well: it's a very "anonymous" film, obviously made while Dreyer was still the under the spell of Griffith. There are a few nice Dreyer-esque moments: the self-flaggelation scene, a very sympathetic Satan character, etc. But it doesn't give much indication of Dreyer's genius.
BTW, I'm not advising you NOT to own the films in one form or another. But the BFIs are the way to go.
Also, I agree with Zedz and Tommaso re. Leaves from Satan's Book. Zedz put it well: it's a very "anonymous" film, obviously made while Dreyer was still the under the spell of Griffith. There are a few nice Dreyer-esque moments: the self-flaggelation scene, a very sympathetic Satan character, etc. But it doesn't give much indication of Dreyer's genius.
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- What A Disgrace
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I suggest CDWow; if they can manage to ship them in time. Three of the four titles are sporting prices less than $23; with Day of Wrath being about $27. And Used & New on Amazon UK can be pretty good to you...its how I got three of the four titles.Adam wrote:I haven't yet. Let me see if I can find a cost effective manner to get the BFI versions.
My only ever complaint about BFI is that their premium priced discs; unlike Optimum, Tartan, Artificial Eye, Eureka and most any other label in the UK...generally don't stray below 75% of retail price at online stores.
- martin
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Well, I'm in no hurry, so I can wait for the best price and can wait for weeks before it arrives.What A Disgrace wrote:I suggest CDWow; if they can manage to ship them in time. Three of the four titles are sporting prices less than $23; with Day of Wrath being about $27. And Used & New on Amazon UK can be pretty good to you...its how I got three of the four titles.Adam wrote:I haven't yet. Let me see if I can find a cost effective manner to get the BFI versions.
My only ever complaint about BFI is that their premium priced discs; unlike Optimum, Tartan, Artificial Eye, Eureka and most any other label in the UK...generally don't stray below 75% of retail price at online stores.
- tryavna
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:38 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Adam, if you use this CD-Wow! link and search for Ordet and Gertrud, you can pick up each for less than $15. So you might want to take advantage of that sooner rather than later.
Day of Wrath and Master of the House are somewhat more expensive, but still within a pretty decent price range, since you won't have to pay extra for shipping.
Day of Wrath and Master of the House are somewhat more expensive, but still within a pretty decent price range, since you won't have to pay extra for shipping.
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
According to the DVDBeaver comparison of Gertrud it looks like the BFI DVD got closer to the correct ratio of 1.66:1 by cropping quite a bit away from the sides, and only a slight amount of the information lost in Criterion's 1.78:1 transfer is visible. So it doesn't really seem like the BFI is much of an improvement, because the issue isn't the aspect ratio per se if a transfer is missing too much visual information on all four sides.
- martin
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Thank you for the lead. I took advantage of it, and got a couple of other BFI titles as well also at $15 (one of the Mitchell & Kenyon volumes, for example). Free shipping from the UK. I wonder how long it will take to Los Angeles.tryavna wrote:Adam, if you use this CD-Wow! link and search for Ordet and Gertrud, you can pick up each for less than $15. So you might want to take advantage of that sooner rather than later.
Day of Wrath and Master of the House are somewhat more expensive, but still within a pretty decent price range, since you won't have to pay extra for shipping.
- denti alligator
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- martin
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Probably. But it's quite complicated because a DVD (like the Criterion) may show more to the sides of the picture than should be projected in the cinema. This is because the negative area is 0.866" wide while the projected area should only be 0.825".denti alligator wrote:So they're both cropped...?
But the differences are quite small anyway. I don't think the cropping issue should decide which version of Gertrud one should buy (but I'd say Bfi is closest to the intended ratio if I should pick just one!).
- MichaelB
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Effectively, they're negligible. In virtually all cases, at least that much would have been masked off in most normal 35mm projection situations, and Dreyer (or at least his cinematographer) must have been aware of this when composing the images in the first place.martin wrote:Probably. But it's quite complicated because a DVD (like the Criterion) may show more to the sides of the picture than should be projected in the cinema. This is because the negative area is 0.866" wide while the projected area should only be 0.825".denti alligator wrote:So they're both cropped...?
But the differences are quite small anyway.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Well, isn't the stipulation and approval of this framing by the cinematographer their 'excuse'? We may not like the decision (see also, probably even more problematically, the 'Planet Storaro' version of The Last Emperor), but they've certainly got a leg to stand on.Tommaso wrote:(no excuse for Criterion, of course)