110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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HitchcockLang
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#51 Post by HitchcockLang » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:14 am

EddieLarkin wrote: Indeed the BFI set included it as the primary version, with the 1964 cut as the only alternative. Here, Criterion are including the 1949 cut as the primary, whilst assigning the 1953 Les vacances de Monsieur Hulot as an alternative and instead giving prominence to the 1978 re-cut. Their logic seems off.
Not sure about Jour de Fete, but as far as Les vacances de M. Hulot goes, the 1978 recut seems to have been Tati's (and thus the Tati estate's) preferred cut. Remember, the old Criterion DVD only had the '78 cut. I'm pretty excited to finally see the original.

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jegharfangetmigenmyg
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#52 Post by jegharfangetmigenmyg » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:30 am

I found the added Jaws gag in Hulot's Vacation to be pretty lame. Also, I didn't notice the trimming that was done on certain scenes. I still found the film to be dragging quite a bit, especially in the first half. Don't get me wrong, there are several amazing sequences, some of them among his best ever, but I still think that his masterpiece, Playtime, and Mon oncle are miles better than any of his other films, including the first Hulot.

By the way, Dr. Svet is not convinced by the color scheme of BFI's release of the new 4K restoration. I must say I agree with him in that the colors look way too warm. Let's hope that the Criterion release will be different. It seems odd, though, as it was the other way around in the original blu-ray releases (Criterion had a warmer color scheme than the BFI which I preferred).

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HitchcockLang
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#53 Post by HitchcockLang » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:10 pm

If you compare those blu-ray.com screencaps with their caps from the Criterion blu, not only is the color timing very different but I notice two other things:
1) There is ever so slightly more information on the top and bottom of the picture in the StudioCanal 4K resto than the Criterion.
2) Is it just me or does the Criterion seem significantly sharper in regards to fine detail and grain. Compare the caps of the truck driving by in the rain as the hungover restaurant goers leave the restaurant. Look at the people by the door, the grill of the truck, and the shimmering reflective puddles on the ground, and the "Drugstore" sign. It seems that the StudioCanal has lost some clarity. If this is an omen of things to come, I'm still really excited for the Tati box but I'm glad I haven't sold my PlayTime blu yet!

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denti alligator
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#54 Post by denti alligator » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:46 pm

HitchcockLang wrote: It seems that the StudioCanal has lost some clarity. If this is an omen of things to come, I'm still really excited for the Tati box but I'm glad I haven't sold my PlayTime blu yet!
Long time away from the forum.... so if this has been talked about I apologize. But the original CC Blu of Playtime is horrible! Is the new resto from a 70mm print? Is CC doing the transfer in house? I would hope that they've learned from their mistakes.

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HitchcockLang
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#55 Post by HitchcockLang » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:11 pm

denti alligator wrote:
HitchcockLang wrote: It seems that the StudioCanal has lost some clarity. If this is an omen of things to come, I'm still really excited for the Tati box but I'm glad I haven't sold my PlayTime blu yet!
Long time away from the forum.... so if this has been talked about I apologize. But the original CC Blu of Playtime is horrible! Is the new resto from a 70mm print? Is CC doing the transfer in house? I would hope that they've learned from their mistakes.
Presumably, they're using the recent 4K restoration which I believe is from the 70mm. Not in-house. Not of this is confirmed, but with there being a new 4K resto, it's doubtful that CC would spend the time and money making yet another new transfer.

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Finch
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#56 Post by Finch » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:21 am

Considering they took flawed restorations before and made no adjustments to fix the issues, I expect Criterion's re-release of Playtime to be identical to the UK and French discs. Has anyone here seen the film when it was released in 1967? Have to agree with Svet that the warmer colours don't "feel right" for the first half of the film but I'm not in a position to state with authority that the warmer tones should have been there all along or not.

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tenia
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#57 Post by tenia » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:26 am

Well, Criterion corrected the sepia tone from Tokyo Story (seen on the JP and the French BDs). At least, if an incorrect color-space is at stake here, this could be corrected in-house I believe.

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Finch
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#58 Post by Finch » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:04 am

Good point about Tokyo Story but the lack of evidence of any additional in-house work on recent key French titles like Children of Paradise, Madame de and Lola doesn't fill me with confidence that Criterion will fix the black levels etc on the Playtime 4k resto. I'd like to be proven wrong though. Thing is, even if the issue was raised with Criterion now, how much time would there be really to carry out corrections to the Playtime master provided, given that the set is due in October?

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denti alligator
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#59 Post by denti alligator » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:30 am

The colors look closer to what I remember seeing in the theater (70mm print), so I'm not too worried. I'm not sure I agree with Svet on this. It was precisely the cold, blue-grey of the first CC Blu that put me off. And it's apparent sharpness is due to edge enhancement, if I'm not mistaken (DVDBeaver pointed this out). The 4 1/2 stars Svet gave the image quality of the first CC Blu says a lot. That was one of the most disappointing HD releases ever.

Pongsakorn26
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#60 Post by Pongsakorn26 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:44 am

Hello, I'm from Thailand
Last week I already saw "Playtime". It was screened by French Embassy (use the 35mm print from 2001 restoration)
and I can comfirm that the color is "warm" like the new 4K restoration.


P.S. Please apologize for my English (not quite good)

rrenault
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#61 Post by rrenault » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:22 am

I have a question. Is the standalone blu ray release of Playtime here in France the same transfer as the old Criterion or is it the new and improved one, because buying the entire Criterion set I think would be overkill for me, since there are still many films of his I haven't yet seen.

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swo17
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#62 Post by swo17 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:56 am

Finch wrote:Good point about Tokyo Story but the lack of evidence of any additional in-house work on recent key French titles like Children of Paradise, Madame de and Lola doesn't fill me with confidence that Criterion will fix the black levels etc on the Playtime 4k resto.
It's much easier to tinker with color timing than to fix the examples you cite (by starting from scratch). That is, if Criterion even sees the need to change the color timing.

WorstFella
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#63 Post by WorstFella » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:06 pm

Most things I've seen and read about the 70mm elements of the film have indicated that the new restoration's colour timing is indeed more accurate (e.g. this 70mm frame).

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Minkin
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#64 Post by Minkin » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:01 pm

No review just yet,

but I'm happy to report that (in a reversal of a trend by Criterion), the film trailers have been added to the special features specs! (and it doesn't look like anything has disappeared either!)

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Faux Hulot
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#65 Post by Faux Hulot » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:09 pm

Minkin wrote:No review just yet,

but I'm happy to report that (in a reversal of a trend by Criterion), the film trailers have been added to the special features specs!
Excellent! The Play Time trailer has a few seconds of footage that has never resurfaced in any restoration, so it's nice to see that it made the cut.

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manicsounds
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#66 Post by manicsounds » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:32 am

Trafic review at blu-ray.com

So is the "Comedy of Jacques Tati" 1976 French TV special, and the 1971 interviews from the cast that were on the DVD gone from the blu-ray upgrade?

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Roger Ryan
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#67 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:23 am

I'm a bit surprised that the Omnibus program* is an extra on this disc instead of the MONSIEUR HULOT'S HOLIDAY disc (given the bulk of the episode concerns HOLIDAY), but I suppose it was because the HOLIDAY disc was already loaded with extras.

*This extra was included on Criterion's earlier PLAYTIME release.

Orlac
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#68 Post by Orlac » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:15 am

Does anyone know what Playtime's running time was on its premiere? Same as we have now, or the longer first cut?

remy
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#69 Post by remy » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:59 am

The original running time was 152 min upon release (December 67), then cut down to 137 min shortly after (February 68). From then on, it appears further cuts were made, down to a running time of 124 min.

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Fred Holywell
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#70 Post by Fred Holywell » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:19 pm

Monsieur Hulot's Holiday reviewed at Blu-ray.com.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#71 Post by EddieLarkin » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:53 pm

Jour de fete at Blu-ray.com

I hope everyone held onto their BFI copies, because the Thomson-color version is from a far inferior, SD source. It looks unwatchable going by those caps. The BFI transfer wasn't exactly pretty but it looks like Lawrence of Arabia compared to what's on the Criterion disc. I wonder if they approached the BFI at all in an attempt to licence their transfer?

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swo17
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#72 Post by swo17 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:03 pm

Doesn't the Criterion have one more version of the film than the BFI edition, with the version in question completely absent from the BFI? That review says that for the two comparable versions, the Criterion transfer is as good or better.

EDIT: Or wait, I think the version exclusive to the Criterion is an all B&W one. Criterion calls this the 1949 version, whereas what the BFI calls the 1949 version (the full-color one) is what Criterion calls the 1995 version. It does look like the BFI has the better full-color version, whereas Criterion has the better part-color version and the B&W version, absent from the BFI.

Maybe Criterion couldn't work with the BFI on this since they no longer have the rights. Or maybe Criterion didn't like how the "vertical striation" looked in HD. In any case, if the Criterion set is going to closely follow the StudioCanal one, are there any other BFI editions that people might want to hold onto?

Tuppence
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#73 Post by Tuppence » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:19 am

The BFI has two versions in HD - the Thomsoncolor version from a new scan, and a 1964 alternate edit that is not the same as the French version, but an English language variant (much like My Uncle). It features newly-shot footage of an English painter visiting the area and commenting on the action. From the BFI booklet:
Now, the film is told from the visitor's point of view, and he provides a peculiarly English commentary on the very French proceedings which are going on around him (reducing the importance of the original story about a rural postman's ambition to modernise his service). With the painter's commentary coming in the form of an interior monologue, this version of the film was perfect for export, as each country could record its own narration, free of lip synching issues.
So there's four separate HD versions out there - 1) the original 1949 b&w release (Criterion/SC), 2) the 1964 part-colour reissue (Criterion/SC), 3) the 1964 part-colour reworked and re-edited English language version (BFI), and 4) the 1995 Thomsoncolor restoration (BFI).

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EddieLarkin
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#74 Post by EddieLarkin » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:11 am

swo17 wrote:In any case, if the Criterion set is going to closely follow the StudioCanal one, are there any other BFI editions that people might want to hold onto?
Going by the review of Les Vacances de M. Hulot, it looks like the BFI disc can be ditched. I expect Mon oncle to be the same, and Playtime goes without saying. So it should just be Jour de fete.

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manicsounds
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Re: 110-112, 439, 729-731 The Complete Jacques Tati

#75 Post by manicsounds » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:21 am

EddieLarkin wrote:Jour de fete at Blu-ray.com

I hope everyone held onto their BFI copies, because the Thomson-color version is from a far inferior, SD source. It looks unwatchable going by those caps. The BFI transfer wasn't exactly pretty but it looks like Lawrence of Arabia compared to what's on the Criterion disc. I wonder if they approached the BFI at all in an attempt to licence their transfer?
Ugh...
I still have my BFI set and the Thomsoncolor version looks great. Very unusual to other color films.
The Blu-ray.com screencaps look like the terrible old DVDs. is the BFI disc the only one to have a good looking color transfer?

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