98 L'avventura

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rrenault
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#76 Post by rrenault » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:18 am

Drucker wrote:I'm not 100% positive that the whole movie is set in Sicily (though I'm fairly certain most of it is?) but I was wondering if anyone else had seen this element of the film mattering at all? To me, a bunch of northern Italians showing up in Sicily is a great backdrop to the tale, and just another example of how well-executed it is.
Well the beginning is set in Rome I think, but everything else takes place in Sicily if you include the whole island sequence which is right off the coast of Sicily. Yes, Sicily's an island, but you all know what I mean by island sequence. I forgot the name of that group of islands they were exploring on the boat.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#77 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:41 am

Yes, they start in Rome, Anna's apartment is in Trastevere, they then leave for Naples, and the group of rich and privileged Romans (Claudia being less so) depart on a cruise yacht for the Aeolian Islands in the Tyrrhenian Sea, landing on Lisca Bianca... (Stromboli is another of these islands).. Following Anna's disappearance they dock at the northern Sicilian port of Milazzo, and Sandro & Claudia crisscross the island together and separately, variously visiting Messina, Santa Panagia, the baroque town of Noto and finally the coastal resort of Taormina... In the original treatment they sailed from the Port of Ischia to the island of Palmarola (part of the Pontine group) where the action played out...

Antonioni describes why the film is set in Sicily...
The film is set in Sicily because I wanted the characters moving freely in a landscape that was alien to them, that they ‘did not see'.

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Re: 98 L'avventura

#78 Post by rrenault » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:34 pm

There are no scenes actually set in Palermo, are there?

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#79 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:49 pm

The scene in the 18th Century villa converted into offices where Anna's disappearance is reported to the police in the fictional narrative is set in Milazzo, however the actual location was a villa in Bagheria, to the West of the island, in the province of Palermo... Similarly a scene set in a villa towards the centre of island, where Claudia waits for news of Sandro and witnesses the seduction of one of the cruise party by a young painter, was actually filmed in another villa near Palermo, home of a member of the Lampedusa family... So storywise no scenes are set in or near Palermo, but two villas in the vicinity were used as filming locations...

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#80 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:58 am

As we await the upgrade of L'AVVENTURA that is in the works, it is worth noting that on the Janus Films 2013 rerelease poster, the island featured is in fact Basiluzzo, which they pass in the film, not the neighbouring island of Lisca Bianca where they actually land, Anna disappears and 'inciting incident' of the narrative kicks off...

Basiluzzo -
Image

Janus poster -
Image

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swo17
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#81 Post by swo17 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:37 pm


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manicsounds
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#82 Post by manicsounds » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:42 am


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FrauBlucher
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#83 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:16 pm


artfilmfan
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#84 Post by artfilmfan » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:44 am

I like the darker image of the Criterion DVD better.

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#85 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:04 am

artfilmfan wrote:I like the darker image of the Criterion DVD better.
That's why you get a brightness knob on your telly

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Lachino
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#86 Post by Lachino » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:18 pm

artfilmfan wrote:I like the darker image of the Criterion DVD better.
When I first saw those Beaver shots I had the same reaction, but going back over them again I find the dvd shots to be underexposed a fair bit. I prefer the bluray now :)

In any case, the original dvd was in my opinion the one most in need of upgrade of the trilogy, so this is definitely a must-buy.

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Re: 98 L'avventura

#87 Post by Siroco » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:50 pm

Huge Antonioni film locations buff.

Can anybody help w/ the list below? Or, perhaps you've visited and can share your experiences, apropos ellipsis7's photos?

Opening Rome Sequence
  • Anna Father's Villa, Rome Outskirts [Via Niccolo Piccolomini in the Aurelio suburb]
    Anna/Claudia Drive to Rome Under the Archway [Anna and Claudia drive away in their chauffeured car from Via Niccolo Piccolomini on what is now Via di Villa Betania then along Via Aurelia Antica, passing under the aqueduct built by Pope Paul V]
    Sandro's Apartment, no. 20, Piazza San Bartolomeo, Isola Tiberina [Ponte Fabricio visible through the apartment balcony]
Update: Special thanks to ellipsis7's for the reference to Jacopo Benci's article "Michelangelo's Rome" in Cinematic Rome, which includes the author's pictures of these locations from 2006.

Aeolian Islands
  • Yacht initially passes the jagged cliffs of Basiluzzo
    Party lands on Lisca Bianca, where Anna disappears [Has anyone visited?]. Identifiable locations on the island include the "Blowhole" and location of the fake hut.
Milazzo
  • The Police station is actually the Villa Palagonia in Bagheria
    Is the train station actually the Milazzo station?
    The train scenes were reportedly shot between Palermo and Termini Imerese [Where is that rock promontory visible through the window as the guy chats up the girl?]
    Sandro exits train at Castoreale, although it's actually Cefalu.
Messina
  • The mob scene occurs on Viale San Martino
    At what intersection does Sandro bribe the journalist?
Montaldo Villa
  • This is actually the Villa Niscemi in/near Palermo
Troina
  • The pharmacy scene was filmed on the Catanian Plain [Location?]
Road to Noto
  • The abandoned (Mezzogiorno) town is near Caltanisetta [Location?]
    The kissing/train scene occurs at Santa Panagia?
Noto
  • The fictional Hotel Trinacria overlooks the church of San Francesco, Piazza Immacolata
    Claudia rings the church bells at Chiesa del Collegio, which offers a view of the Piazza Municipio; this is where Sando attempts to enter the Museo Civico before spilling the ink [That drawing is what building?]
Road to Taorima
  • The highway cut through the mountain is actually on the north coast [Location?]
Taorima
  • San Domenico Hotel [Anybody visited? Is the interior recognizable?]
    Last scenes take place on parking lot next to Church of San Domenico (as pictured earlier in the thread)
Last edited by Siroco on Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#88 Post by ellipsis7 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:49 am

I am researching & writing a book on Antonioni and have visited & photographed most of these locations, including Lisca Bianca, the abandoned village, Noto & Hotel San Domenico Palace, all of which remain pretty unchanged & recognisable.... I'm afraid you'll have to wait till I finish this magnum opus till I reveal all my discoveries... You're right about Piazza S. Bartolomeo & Sandro's apartment - some good observations about the locations of the open sequence in Rome are made by Jacopi Benci in 'Michelangelo's Rome' pp 64-67 of Cinematic Rome ed. Richard Wrigley (Troubadour publishing, 2008)...

BTW in my avatar image that's the island of Dattilo with Lisca Bianca half hidden behind the right hand edge, photographed at ~0530 (alba/dawn) from Panarea last July....

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Re: 98 L'avventura

#89 Post by Siroco » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:04 pm

ellipsis7 wrote:I am researching & writing a book on Antonioni and have visited & photographed most of these locations, including Lisca Bianca, the abandoned village, Noto & Hotel San Domenico Palace, all of which remain pretty unchanged & recognisable.... I'm afraid you'll have to wait till I finish this magnum opus till I reveal all my discoveries... You're right about Piazza S. Bartolomeo & Sandro's apartment - some good observations about the locations of the open sequence in Rome are made by Jacopi Benci in 'Michelangelo's Rome' pp 64-67 of Cinematic Rome ed. Richard Wrigley (Troubadour publishing, 2008)...

BTW in my avatar image that's the island of Dattilo with Lisca Bianca half hidden behind the right hand edge, photographed at ~0530 (alba/dawn) from Panarea last July....
Sounds fantastic. Where can I pre-order ;)

Thanks for that background info on Cinematic Rome,
as well as the interesting background about your
avatar.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#90 Post by ellipsis7 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:31 pm

It'll be a while yet, making great progress, but someway still to go till I am completely happy... But may be publishing a selected preview/advance paper in a journal shortly...

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filmyfan
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Re: 98 L'avventura

#91 Post by filmyfan » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:30 am

Thanks for those locations-great stuff !
Sandro exits train at Castoreale, although it's actually Cefalu.
I am going to Sicily in a couple of weeks-and wanted to find this station but having googled Cefalu-it doesn't look much like the film !

However things change of course-and is also mentioned on the commentary-but the rocks and lagoon opposite the station don't look right !

I will be going to Noto as well !
Thanks !

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L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#92 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:32 am

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domino harvey
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Re: L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#93 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:28 pm

Okay, well, I know most of us have seen this. And it is something of a touchstone film in world cinema. Anyone remember their initial responses? Did you go full-on Cannes audience? Or were you on the Truffaut end of the spectrum? Somewhere in-between?

I'm pretty sure I went about it all backwards and saw the alienation quadrilogy in reverse order, so I was more than prepared for its contemplative pace and lack of concrete resolution by the time I got to it. But while it lacks for me the overwhelming alienation and isolation of Red Desert, there is something about this film that makes it grow in estimation in the memory. Just revisiting it lately, it's remarkable how consciously placed within the frame Antonioni's blocking of actors is. It's funny that Bergman rejected Antonioni (and also insulted Vitti), because they both have a similar reliance on blocking, though Antonioni's methodology is less bold than Bergman's oft-parodied compositions. Maybe Bergman's objections were another case of human tendency of how we often react most strongly to the same flaws in others we also possess (not that I find such aesthetic adherence a flaw in either director, of course).

In contrast to Bergman, however, Antonioni often turns towards framing and imposing architecture and landmarks with the same level of attention he devotes to his human subjects. This no doubt contributes to some readings of Antonioni's films as cold or indifferent, in marked contrast to Bergman's wealth of warmth. However, I think this film and the others that make up the four-pack pick at recognizably human and universal scars of loneliness and emptiness, with the internal struggles turned inside-out in the grandeur of one's surroundings, overwhelmed and overshadowed. How appropriate that our ostensible protagonist is swallowed up whole by that small yet overpowering craggy island sticking out of the water, never to appear again. The infamous unexplained disappearance is an admission that there's no answer to many of the questions we ask. While it has inspired countless art house cryptic wannabes in recent years to feel free to reject narrative resolution as though such a thing automatically equaled Art, L'Avventura's evasiveness with conventional resolution as a methodology has never been done better in cinema before or since.

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knives
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Re: L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#94 Post by knives » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:40 pm

My response through all three viewings has been, "well that's nice I guess," which to be fair is my standard response to Antonioni who I'm so neutral on I've managed to competently argue him and his movies from all sides. All the same this was my first Antonioni at a period when I was really getting into films exactly like this, yet along with Ugetsu which I think I saw in the same week even this was more a realization that just because a film is aesthetically interesting doesn't make it personally affecting. i think that is one area where the Bergman comparison isn't terribly useful. Bergman seems concerned about these themes du jour in an emotive way and personal way as if they are his own while I find Antonioni more interested in them as an act of scholarship, but not even a contemporary ethnography which would be interesting to me, but like an archaeologist deciding on the history of an extinct race. Perhaps that form of investigation works (incredibly) well for others, but for me it is an instant neutralizer to even the best of his movies (that Red Desert adds in a genuine love for Vitti is probably why it works best for me).

I wrote the Bergman stuff before you added in that last paragraph, but to clarify I'm not doing the cold v warm thing here which is stupid and not terribly useful. Antonioni is clearly very curious and invested in the characters he is manipulating so I'm not even sure if calling him cold is accurate. Rather I mean, and this is were my tongue will betray me, I find Bergman more egocentric while Antonioni is almost an anti-auteur auteur trying to render himself an open window rather than a pair of glasses. The egocentric approach is easier for me to go into dialogue with in part and in another part as I mentioned a bit I'm not sure if this non-observational approach to the window method works for me at all. It certainly fails utterly with Mizoguchi, Hou, and Tobias Lindholm who I also think try it.

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Re: L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#95 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:40 pm

I remember my first (and so far only) viewing of the film as mostly cold and indifferent appreciation. I could see what it was doing well enough, and nothing about the deliberate pace or indeterminacy bothered me (I generally like those things). It's just that nothing evoked a strong response in me. Same for both L'eclisse and The Passenger, the other two Antonioni's I've seen (tho', oddly, I like that last one the most just because it struck me as funny how badly the main character wanted to be in an adventure/suspense movie, but just never could manage to get it going). Maybe a revisit would change my opinion, tho' it's not likely given I had the same response to three different films seen over the course of many years. And, looking back, L'Avventura does seem very focused on achieving just a single effect.

I'd love to know what people find so miraculous and affecting about this movie.

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domino harvey
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Re: L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#96 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:56 pm

Knives, that's an interesting reading to see Bergman as egocentric and Antonioni as more of an "open window," though I think it betrays your preference for one auteur over the other (a preference you willingly confess). I think Antonioni approaches his subjects not coldly or indifferently (which is how I read your "window" comparison) but cautiously. His characters are kept at an arm's length, but rarely farther. He's not a neutral party, he has perspective and a vantage to share, but he does so in a meted-out methodology that is built on trust going both ways. Having recently seen many of the films Antonioni made leading up to this, there really is a sea change in how character and plot are enacted within L'Avventura. Il grido hinted at the shift, a little, but the jump from that to this is still pretty wide to my eyes. I don't think it's a methodology made from a lonely architect filming humans for a detached investigation, but rather a director trying to capture abstract human emotive states without resorting to melodrama (where he previously dabbled more freely) or even conventional dramatic stakes

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knives
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Re: L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#97 Post by knives » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:07 pm

I certainly didn't mean indifferently. I used the term manipulated in a very direct way which if anything I thought was where my bias was going to show. That manipulated may be a negative way of seeing your vantage. There's a lot of window directors I like. Bresson, Imamura, recently Clarke, but that is also why I gave the distinction between the two window approaches from the observational living and the investigative dead. I think caution is the perfect term and your usage great. Perhaps better than a window is a reporter looking up a cold case (or maybe sticking with my secondary archaeologist comment). I see him as someone striving to fill the holes to the event so as to to get at the why (this is just a simple rephrasing of your last point I suspect). Maybe off screen the world, being Antonioni, already knows what happened to the friend leaving just the question of how which of course leads to Vitti who turned out to be more interesting to the world. I respect that a lot even if it doesn't touch me emotionally or intellectually much.

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domino harvey
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Re: L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#98 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:13 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:I'd love to know what people find so miraculous and affecting about this movie.
Since it's fresh in my mind from our previous discussion of Red Beard, if it helps, I read seemingly every single Kurosawa thread the same way. While reading effusive praise and the well-argued pinpointing of intricacies and insights in Kurosawa's works, I always feel an overwhelming sense of "I don't hate what Kurosawa does, but I also just don't care." The things people get out of Kurosawa's films and the things I find of interest do not make for a convincing Venn diagram. So I think we all have our Not For Me auteurs!

For me, Antonioni's best works (Red Desert foremost, followed by this and L'eclisse) speak to anxieties, insecurities, and Lonely Crowd notions which can be tricky to pull-off in film. These concerns seem better suited for literature, where internal narration can elucidate the more specific emotions expressed (and the existence of their employment is less outright impressive as a result). In a movie, it's trickier. It would be easy to have a character explicitly say "I am alienated. I don't feel like I fit into this world even though I am young, pretty, wealthy, _____," but how to not just portray but embody this state in the film itself? It surely must be hard to do, because so few films have pulled it off as effectively as Antonioni here or elsewhere. I guess my defense comes down to asking what boxes this ticks for me as a viewer. Sure, it's beautiful and enchanting and frequently hypnotic, but above all my ballot needs only one item: I am captivated with its mastery of the abstract emotions it relays.

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Re: L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#99 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:49 pm

Rather than 'cold', which implies a value judgement, or detached, maybe we should use 'dispassionate' to describe Antonioni's style of representation.

I do like knives' use of 'ego-centric' for Bergman because one thing about Bergman's films that isn't true of Antonioni (I think) is that the largest personality in Bergman's films is his own. Bergman's feelings, reactions, thoughts, opinions, etc., are suffused throughout his movies, to brilliant effect. His characters are often parts of himself. Antonioni, by contrast, tries not to put too much of himself in there. We are at more of a remove from him as a person than from Bergman, whose movies bring us closer to him. To use a non-film analogy (and a more extreme example), it's the difference between Dante and Shakespeare. But this shouldn't be considered a value judgement. I think Antonioni is trying to create a feeling and an emotion that lies outside of himself, that he can remove himself from once it's been created. I certainly never got the impression, watching his movies, that I was meant to share the creator's emotions. With Bergman, there was always a sense I was getting access to his own most deeply felt emotions.

Thanks for your thoughts on his effect, domino. I find those kind of defences can help me zero in on what I was missing and let me better appreciate what I'm watching. Antonioni may never be for me, but I'm open to that changing.

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Re: L'Avventura (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960)

#100 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:23 am

Oh, somehow forgot that I've seen Blow Up, too, which I remember liking more than Blow Out but quite a bit less than The Conversation, the latter seeming a far more vivid and pointed film.

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